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08-12-2015, 06:28 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Victoria, Vancouver Island, British Columbia
Trailer: 2015 5.0 TA
Posts: 394
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Attaching fittings
When attachIng a bracket to a boat one cleans the area, drills the hole, applies appropriate caulking to the bottom of the bracket and positions it, applies more caulking to the bolt and some in the hole, tightens it down and cleans up any caulking that squeezes out. The result is a clean looking install that is water tight with no caulking visible.
On the top of a RV, it seems we with do something similar with adding the caulking during the install or do a dry install. Then, the bottom of the bracket and fastener is smothered in caulking. The results is a messy looking job which hopefully is waterproof. If I had done that when I worked at the shipyard on customer's boats I would of been fired. But, when adding things to the sides of RV, they aren't covered in caulk.
So why?
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08-12-2015, 06:33 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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Is your question why are the roof attachments not as neat and tidy as the side wall ones? I guess because you do not see them?
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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08-12-2015, 09:58 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Victoria, Vancouver Island, British Columbia
Trailer: 2015 5.0 TA
Posts: 394
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You are right, the ones on top are not seen and neither are parts in the bilge of a boat, but the boat ones are alway neat. What prompted the question was the instructions for adding the brackets to the solar panel. Basically install dry and cover with caulking. I don't see why this method of installation is good practice. I think appling the caulk during the install results in better waterproof performance over time.
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08-12-2015, 10:22 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Oak Creek, Wisconsin
Trailer: Escape 19 26/May/2014 Sold New trailer 2016 Bigfoot 25B21FB
Posts: 449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris R
You are right, the ones on top are not seen and neither are parts in the bilge of a boat, but the boat ones are alway neat. What prompted the question was the instructions for adding the brackets to the solar panel. Basically install dry and cover with caulking. I don't see why this method of installation is good practice. I think appling the caulk during the install results in better waterproof performance over time.
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Hi Chris,
Everyone knows more is better I to hate looking at messes caulking job.
Mark
__________________
______________________
Mark & Karen Van Tiem 2014 Escape 19 sold, Now a Bigfoot 25B21FB Travel Trailer
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08-12-2015, 10:52 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 8,813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris R
What prompted the question was the instructions for adding the brackets to the solar panel. Basically install dry and cover with caulking. I don't see why this method of installation is good practice. .
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If those are the instructions I'm shocked. That's called "face sealing" and isn't nearly as good as bedding the fitting in sealant.
I normally mask off the perimeter and remove the tape while the sealant is still pliable making for a neat installation.
The only exception to this type of installation is when I use a EPDM gasket. In this case I made these kayak roof racks for the canopy and I wanted to remove them on occasion so I did a dry install with an EPDM gasket. It also compensates slightly for the not dead flat surface.
Ron
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08-12-2015, 10:53 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Midcoast, Maine
Trailer: 2016 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 435
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Not to mention that caulking seems to break down over time which leads to partially or completely exposing whatever it was supposed to cover and protect. Not that I have an Escape yet to know what they do...I just know that from the Casita.
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08-12-2015, 11:15 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ventura County, California
Trailer: 2013 19 Escape
Posts: 7,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris R
When attachIng a bracket to a boat one cleans the area, drills the hole, applies appropriate caulking to the bottom of the bracket and positions it, applies more caulking to the bolt and some in the hole, tightens it down and cleans up any caulking that squeezes out. The result is a clean looking install that is water tight with no caulking visible.
On the top of a RV, it seems we with do something similar with adding the caulking during the install or do a dry install. Then, the bottom of the bracket and fastener is smothered in caulking. The results is a messy looking job which hopefully is waterproof. If I had done that when I worked at the shipyard on customer's boats I would of been fired. But, when adding things to the sides of RV, they aren't covered in caulk.
So why?
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Sounds like a neat , reliable way to install brackets . Some of the installs for solar truly are a mess and I would question how waterproof they are . I also like Ron's suggestion of the rubber gaskets . I think that might work . I just fixed small hole in copper pipe with a great stainless and brass bracket with the rubber gasket cinched down no leak . Didn't have to cut pipe or solder . Great invention . You fellows working on boats really know what you are talking about . Pat
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08-12-2015, 12:21 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 8,813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patandlinda
. I just fixed small hole in copper pipe with a great stainless and brass bracket with the rubber gasket cinched down no leak . Didn't have to cut pipe or solder . Great invention . You fellows working on boats really know what you are talking about . Pat
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Yah, the old piece of inner tube and a hose clamp works like a charm.
Us boaters do have to learn how to make leak proof holes. When you drill 1 1/2" holes in the bottom of the boat and take it out on the ocean it's nice to feel that you've made it water proof.
Ron
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08-16-2015, 12:43 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris R
When attachIng a bracket to a boat one cleans the area, drills the hole, applies appropriate caulking to the bottom of the bracket and positions it, applies more caulking to the bolt and some in the hole, tightens it down and cleans up any caulking that squeezes out. The result is a clean looking install that is water tight with no caulking visible.
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Properly done
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris R
On the top of a RV, it seems we with do something similar with adding the caulking during the install or do a dry install. Then, the bottom of the bracket and fastener is smothered in caulking. The results is a messy looking job which hopefully is waterproof...
So why?
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I think part of the problem is that both RV bodies and RV parts are assumed to be too flexible, so they don't stay firmly attached with a consistent sealant-filled space. Also, traditionally some weird old putty has traditionally been used, instead of a modern sealant - the current butyl putty is much more elastic and sticky, but it's still not like an automotive sealant.
It fundamentally makes no sense to me - or anyone outside of the RV industry - to seal a joint by painting goop over it. The joint is filled, or if the parts are not rigid then a tape is applied over top to bridge the joint. Even in RVs, tapes such as Eternabond are used to fix leaks with the goop-over-top method fails.
When I installed a MaxxFan in my trailer a few years ago, I used butyl putty under the flange and secured with bolts to a substantial flange on the inside... and that's it. No leaks.
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08-16-2015, 01:37 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Juneau, Alaska
Trailer: 2015 17A - Ready for more Maiden Voyages ....
Posts: 881
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Sorry .... Still not right. Apply caulking to underside of fitting, some down the bolt hole ... move wife's brand new fur coat from underneath, ... some on bolt threads, ... insert bolt and barely tighten, .... clean up the oose, and wait for caulk to cure .... days if necessary. You want the caulk to be between 1/16" and 1/8" thick. After curing then, then tighten. You will have made a perfect gasket and it has the best chance to be and stay waterproof.
Caulking on top of the fitting? NO!
__________________
Consciousness: That confusing time between naps
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08-16-2015, 12:24 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Port Angeles, Washington
Trailer: 2014 19'
Posts: 534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris R
You are right, the ones on top are not seen and neither are parts in the bilge of a boat, but the boat ones are alway neat. What prompted the question was the instructions for adding the brackets to the solar panel. Basically install dry and cover with caulking. I don't see why this method of installation is good practice. I think appling the caulk during the install results in better waterproof performance over time.
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When I looked at the blobs on the roof I was disappointed .. Again .. With the fast and sloppy construction I am finding throughout my trailer. I hoped there might be some sealant underneath?
Out of sight is out of mind like the plumbing vent behind the wall with no stinky air or waste water control etc?
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08-16-2015, 03:42 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ventura County, California
Trailer: 2013 19 Escape
Posts: 7,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patandlinda
Sounds like a neat , reliable way to install brackets . Some of the installs for solar truly are a mess and I would question how waterproof they are . I also like Ron's suggestion of the rubber gaskets . I think that might work . I just fixed small hole in copper pipe with a great stainless and brass bracket with the rubber gasket cinched down no leak . Didn't have to cut pipe or solder . Great invention . You fellows working on boats really know what you are talking about . Pat
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For those interested something new for me at plumbing supply not Home Depot or lowe's . Ron I first used a piece of rubber and a gates clamp for over night . This one is stainless and brass with neoprene in center . pipe must be in good condition though , Copper wasn't installed right that's why I hit it . It was right up against drywall , not in center wood brace . So called plumber fix after 1994 Earthquake .
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08-16-2015, 04:43 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: N/A, Indiana
Trailer: Escape
Posts: 976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klem
When I looked at the blobs on the roof I was disappointed .. Again .. With the fast and sloppy construction I am finding throughout my trailer. I hoped there might be some sealant underneath?
Out of sight is out of mind like the plumbing vent behind the wall with no stinky air or waste water control etc?
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OH NO ! Speaking your mind and stating the obvious could result in you being also being labeled as a costumer that is not wanted.
__________________
"Never argue with an idiot. They only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." George Carlin
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08-16-2015, 05:30 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 8,813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarvingHyena
Sorry .... Still not right. Apply caulking to underside of fitting, some down the bolt hole ... move wife's brand new fur coat from underneath, ... some on bolt threads, ... insert bolt and barely tighten, .... clean up the oose, and wait for caulk to cure .... days if necessary. You want the caulk to be between 1/16" and 1/8" thick. After curing then, then tighten. You will have made a perfect gasket and it has the best chance to be and stay waterproof.
Caulking on top of the fitting? NO!
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I agree that's the process that works really well. The only thing I'm careful not to do when compressing the semi cured sealant is turn the bolt and disturb the sealant. Maybe it's overkill but I like to hold the bolt or fitting firmly in position and only turn the nut.
I hope anyone installing their brackets or any other piece of hardware whose fittings penetrate the skin will consider bedding them in sealant.
Ron
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08-16-2015, 05:47 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Southern Alberta, Alberta
Trailer: 2015 Escape 5.0TA
Posts: 1,734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubal
OH NO ! Speaking your mind and stating the obvious could result in you being also being labeled as a costumer that is not wanted.
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Doug
__________________
Cheers
Doug
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08-16-2015, 05:56 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
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Is the misspelling of "customer" intentional?
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What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
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08-16-2015, 06:00 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Ventura County, California
Trailer: 2015 Escape 17A
Posts: 2,347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo
Is the misspelling of "customer" intentional?
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It must be the more decorative use of the word.
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