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Old 04-03-2020, 01:02 PM   #41
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I’ve gone through the same thought process. Given that you currently own a Casita, my guess is that you’ve ruled out that option. I have friends who rave about them, much like Escape owners on this site. They’re just too small for us. Oliver and Bigfoot are out of my realistic towing capacity (max 7800 lbs). Intech has an interesting option in the Sol Horizon. It’s all fiberglass, but walls are attached to an aluminum frame. It’s only been on the market a year or 2, so there’s not much customer feedback on it.
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Old 04-03-2020, 03:04 PM   #42
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My Casita 17 has served me long and well, but I'm ready for a bit more room / storage, a dedicated bed, and non-furry walls, none which Casita can deliver yet. Yes, I'm 100% sold on the benefits of a quality, robust, 2-piece molded fiberglass RV and will never deviate from that basic structural-shell system.

While Bigfoot 17.5 and 21 models are certainly larger than my Casita, and both plans offer a dedicated bed, IMO the significant overall width or increased length isn't put to very good use for gain of useful storage / countertop, etc. Weight is a factor, too. In short, Bigfoot lacks "efficiency" of the sort I seek.

Oliver's self-professed forte is "luxury" with a price to match. Nice I'm sure, but even if they offered a floorplan and weight that were attractive to me (they don't), it's not the the market for me.

Sol Horizon I was not aware of, but a quick tour of that website reveals it's a 'miss' for me on too many fronts to list. IMO in comparison to that unit I'm better off with my trusty Casita 17.

I started this 'upgrade' venture attracted to the E19, and have willingly been 'self-upsold' on the E21 Classic based in no small part on info gleaned from this forum. The 'just-right' package size, weight, and floorplan efficiency, along with ETI's willingness to "customize" (proven in my ongoing 'build-sheet' refinement with the friendly aide and input of salesperson Linda Fedoruk and the "Production" staff behind her) have set the "value" of Escape significantly apart from the competition for me.

Spending time on this forum has done nothing but reinforce my confidence in the basic quality and robust-ness of Escape Trailers, so that aspect of "value" is no longer a question for me at all.

It's a highly personal and, relatively uniquely "personalized" undertaking when dealing with ETI; not quite a "bespoke" RV, but but much closer to that than offered by any other RV maker I've encountered, and for me there's huge value in that.

Again and still, current USD pricing notwithstanding.

YMMV.
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Old 04-03-2020, 03:55 PM   #43
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Good for you! I’m on a similar path, but not as far down it as you. It’s good to hear supporting logic and hope to experience the personal touch in the not too distant future. Best of luck to you as you go through the process!
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Old 04-03-2020, 04:20 PM   #44
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PS: A couple of days after making post #12 in this thread I contacted ETI sales directly, submitting my first-draft build-sheet for an E21 Classic and requesting CAD pricing based on a 100% CAD transaction. That was politely declined, I was directed to the USD pricing schedule, and we are proceeding to refine a build-sheet to meet my customization requests based on the current USD price sheet posted on ETI's website.
Iím an Escape fan. I have been for years. Iíve sung their praises and sold many trailers for them.

But if I were buying today, as much as I love the (old) company and their products, I find this new pricing dichotomy so vile that I would be looking elsewhere. Maybe a used Escape. Maybe a truck camper. I donít know. It just rubs me the wrong way, like a giant disembodied hand that keeps petting the cat the wrong direction.

This isnít how you treat your customers. Itís how you dismantle the rabid, loyal customer base that (old) ETI worked so hard to build. YMMV.

I hope theyíre reading this thread.
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Old 04-03-2020, 09:21 PM   #45
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Iím an Escape fan. I have been for years. Iíve sung their praises and sold many trailers for them.

But if I were buying today, as much as I love the (old) company and their products, I find this new pricing dichotomy so vile that I would be looking elsewhere. Maybe a used Escape. Maybe a truck camper. I donít know. It just rubs me the wrong way, like a giant disembodied hand that keeps petting the cat the wrong direction.

This isnít how you treat your customers. Itís how you dismantle the rabid, loyal customer base that (old) ETI worked so hard to build. YMMV.

I hope theyíre reading this thread.
Very well stated. I agree 100%. Wife and I discovered Escape about three years ago, and have been saving every since. We were pretty close to a purchase and then they came up with this plan to maximize profit from the US customers.

In one of the previous posts someone asked a question of how much would you pay if you were from any another country. I think they used Mexico as an example. Was this question ever answered?
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Old 04-03-2020, 09:23 PM   #46
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In one of the previous posts someone asked a question of how much would you pay if you were from any another country. I think they used Mexico as an example. Was this question ever answered?
Not on this forum. Only ETI can answer that one, and if anyone has asked, they have not reported it here. Itís a good question.
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Old 04-03-2020, 10:31 PM   #47
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A Canadian and an American Walk Into the Same Store....

Escape's exceptional value and reputation is tied not only to the great quality of the build, but on it's unique customer-centric business model. Customer loyalty has been the back bone of their existence from the very beginning. Just look at the link on ETI's website and click on 'Our Story' and 'Escape History'.

Up until now, their financial policies did not discriminate between customers in any way. Every customer, regardless of origin, was treated with the same respect and fairness and paid the same CAD value. For a business like ETI, even with the new ownership, customer loyalty and satisfaction remains key since they sell 'factory direct' and their advertisement and good name is based, in large part on their customer's loyalty through their customer referral program.

With this new change in policy that Karl is referring to in the 1st post (regardless of the improvements to their products they have made in the past years) from now on, the exact same trailer that rolls off the assembly line with the exact same customizations, will now cost about 10% more to a US customers than to a Canadian customer. It would be like a US citizen walking into Tim Hortons, just down the road from ETI and getting charged an extra 10% CAD for their donut, simply because they're American. We hope this new policy will be revised.

During this trying COVID-19 outbreak and impending economic storm, it would be in the best interest of a company like ETI not to alienate its largest customer demographic. If ETI wants to set a CAD price and a USD price, then we recommend a policy that allows any and every customer the ability to choose and lock in whichever currency they choose at the time of the down payment. IOHO this policy would, 'certainly make the process easier to navigate and complete with less stress' and be fair to all its base customers. Thus, we hope this 'new policy' of forcing American citizens to pay the equivalent of 10% more will be eliminated.

We love our new 2019 E21 Escape trailer and sincerely hope the company grows and propers during this trying time.

Safety and good health to all, -The Bea Team
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Old 04-03-2020, 10:35 PM   #48
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.... Wife and I discovered Escape about three years ago, and have been saving every since. We were pretty close to a purchase and then they came up with this plan to maximize profit from the US customers. ...
May I ask what Escape model you were close to purchasing, and have you found an alternative to that Escape that will work for you?

(not at all to 'challenge' your decision, whatever that may be, just wondering what you found as an alternative )
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Old 04-03-2020, 10:52 PM   #49
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.......................... It would be like a US citizen walking into Tim Hortons, just down the road from ETI and getting charged an extra 10% CAD for their donut, simply because they're American ...........................
I hate to tell you this but as a Canadian this happens to me every time I go State side and buy something except it's more like 30 to 35% extra for everything.
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Old 04-03-2020, 10:57 PM   #50
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I hate to tell you this but as a Canadian this happens to me every time I go State side and buy something except it's more like 30 to 35% extra for everything.
Barry

I was about to post the same, but, it's not. When I buy anything in the US, they don't ask if I'm Canadian, and then charge me more ( Canadian ) because I am. I pay more based on the exchange rate.
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Old 04-03-2020, 11:13 PM   #51
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I was about to post the same, but, it's not. When I buy anything in the US, they don't ask if I'm Canadian, and then charge me more ( Canadian ) because I am. I pay more based on the exchange rate.
And based on the exchange rate, the Canadian pays more. You are both saying the same thing. No oneís fault, just the way it is.
If I worked in the US, I would probably make more per hour, my dollar would be worth more and I would have to pay upwards of 10gís less for the same trailer. Kind of painful to see as a Canadian.
I see both sides, if I could save 10, Iíd pull out every stop to get it.
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Old 04-04-2020, 12:01 AM   #52
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I was about to post the same, but, it's not. When I buy anything in the US, they don't ask if I'm Canadian, and then charge me more ( Canadian ) because I am. I pay more based on the exchange rate.
Yes, exactly this. I don't know why this is so hard for some people to comprehend, or how bad the optics are on this policy. The question above "What about a buyer from Mexico?". Perfect point, what about a buyer from Mexico, or Norway, Australia, Japan, South Africa, Germany, or any other single country outside the US. Are those buyers first going to have their currency exchanged to the US dollar and then immediately to the Canadian Dollar for the same surcharge? of course not, this is a penalty/surcharge squarely aimed at the U.S. buyer. And not a small one, were talking many thousands of dollars here. At this point, I couldn't/wouldn't allow myself to buy an Escape trailer on principle alone.
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Old 04-04-2020, 01:33 AM   #53
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Yes, exactly this. I don't know why this is so hard for some people to comprehend, or how bad the optics are on this policy. The question above "What about a buyer from Mexico?". Perfect point, what about a buyer from Mexico, or Norway, Australia, Japan, South Africa, Germany, or any other single country outside the US. Are those buyers first going to have their currency exchanged to the US dollar and then immediately to the Canadian Dollar for the same surcharge? of course not, this is a penalty/surcharge squarely aimed at the U.S. buyer. And not a small one, were talking many thousands of dollars here. At this point, I couldn't/wouldn't allow myself to buy an Escape trailer on principle alone.
Exactly. I wrote to Karl about squandering the years of goodwill for this surcharge. He promised to be in touch then dropped out of sight and had a financial guy, James, call. The call went nowhere past reiteration they had so many buyers requesting US pricing and then reverting to ďthis us about the exchange rateĒ when we talked about the US price gouging. I feel like I need to look up the Canadian equivalent of the BBB and file a complaint. Outrageous that you could not walk into their shop and pay for a trailer in Canadian dollars if your from the US. Notwithstanding contracts that some did not understand were a 10% price difference to US buyers rather than a reflection of the exchange rate, Iím not even sure itís legal.
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Old 04-04-2020, 01:56 AM   #54
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Old 04-04-2020, 07:38 AM   #55
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May I ask what Escape model you were close to purchasing, and have you found an alternative to that Escape that will work for you?

(not at all to 'challenge' your decision, whatever that may be, just wondering what you found as an alternative )
Looked at many many trailers but nothing found as of this posting. If Casita made a 19 or larger I would probably go there. Looked at Outdoors RV, but wide and tall, and heavy, and a stick built. Looked at tons of Indiana stuff (junk). Like the floor plan of the Flagstaff 22FBS but it's Indiana stuff/junk. Oliver, Airstream too expensive. I have considered building a cargo trailer camper conversion. I could do it but I think my wife would be happier with something a little more refined. Maybe a Micro Minnie if I had to buy something today. The one thing that is for sure is that the RV Industry needs the Customer more than customer needs the RV Industry.

On a side note, we almost never shower in our wet bath Casita, nor would we if we had a wet bath Escape. However, now with the Corona Virus, a dry bath would be a very desirable feature as would staying out of a shower house completely. Many things will change as a result of this virus, but what those changes will be, and how long they will last nobody knows.
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Old 04-04-2020, 08:02 AM   #56
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It does not take too much thought to make a decision to purchase something from a foreign country other than (1) figuring out the price in your money and (2) how to pay it if you decide to buy it. There are Escape owners from all over the world and with one price listed which was in Canadian the purchase was consummated. But it is a complex procedure so sellers starting listing prices in US$ (1) to simplify the process and (2) set their own currency exchange rate. If you purchase from Amazon, a lot of items are foreign made, but Amazon lists the price in US$ and you purchase them in US$ without trying to figure the exchange rate. Why is Escape any different? They are trying to make things easier for the customer as do most other foreign manufacturers. If you bought the trailer in Canada you would be subject to a myriad of add on fees and taxes as most Canadians are charged and pay. Escape is taking the burden of importing the trailer for you to sans the normal fees added on. In addition Escape is accepting your US$ money and then converting it themselves for your convenience. I believe if you compare US historical prices your will see an increase due to time as well as change in standard items, just like all other motor vehicle manufacturers do. A member previously posted when comparing their 2014 escape to a new one, with the added standard features, the differential was not that great. You can always walk away, your choice.
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Old 04-04-2020, 08:14 AM   #57
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Exactly Jim well said
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Old 04-04-2020, 08:38 AM   #58
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There are Escape owners from all over the world and with one price listed which was in Canadian the purchase was consummated.......

You can always walk away, your choice.
A couple of thoughts that your message prompted: in regards to customers from all over the world, only US customers are not allowed to purchase in CAD. For those that like the simplicity of allowing ETI to manage the currency exchange, let them do so, but itís a difficult pill to swallow for those that donít mind the extra leg work to save.

And your last statement is the one that will ultimately define how all of this plays out. I am personally content to sit back and wait, as I believe that the economic turmoil will be significant. Iím betting that leverage will tilt significantly in favor of the consumer in the months and perhaps years to come.
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Old 04-04-2020, 09:38 AM   #59
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Considering all that's happened in the last couple of weeks, to be honest, my minor irritation about Escape's change to a fixed price for US Buyers is not really important.

Our economy, as well as the economies of many other nations, is being devastated before our eyes. It may take years to recover. Millions upon millions are losing their jobs, and whole industries are being wiped out because of the shutdowns.

At this point I'm just grateful and blessed to have my home, my health, my family, and my job intact. No, I still don't like the pricing change, but whatever method Escape decides to use, I wish them well in the very challenging days ahead.
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Old 04-04-2020, 11:09 AM   #60
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I was about to post the same, but, it's not. When I buy anything in the US, they don't ask if I'm Canadian, and then charge me more ( Canadian ) because I am. I pay more based on the exchange rate.
This was somewhat said "tongue in cheek" therefore the "eek" emoji.

But, seriously in the big picture of things as Canadians we are constantly being ripped off by American companies. Go to any American ".com" web page on the internet and then go to the the corresponding ".ca" web page of the same company and be prepared to pay up to twice the price Cdn for the same product. Then go back to the .com web page and find that they don't and won't ship to Canada using that web page. Amazon is a prime example, Home Depot and Walmart the same. If I want to use the .com web site I'd have to use my credit card, pay in US dollars, pay the US sales tax for the state I have it shipped to, pay a fee to my credit card company for an out of country purchase, have the product sent to Ship Happens in Sumas, pay Ship Happens for using their services, go to Sumas to pick the item up, import the product to Canada myself and run the risk of having to pay duty and Canadian sales tax even though I've paid sales tax in the US.

When a US buyer is buying an Escape trailer they take possession in the US (Sumas) not Canada so should pay in US dollars. If they want to take possession in Canada and pay Canadian dollars there is nothing stopping them from doing that. They pay in Canadian dollars, pay our 12% sales tax and then drive off. When they get back to the US they can apply to get the sales tax back because they have now exported the trailer themselves to the US. But, Escape exports the trailer to the US for them saving them the hassle of doing that. Should it not be worth something to them for doing that by having slightly higher prices in US dollars when the exchange is taken into account?

Also, I'd be careful what you, as American buyers, complain about given your current US administrations policy on protectionism. It would only take complaints from Scamp, Casita and Oliver that Escape is cutting into their sales and has an unfair advantage over them due to the strength of the US dollar for your federal government to decide to slap a 40% tariff on Escape trailers being exported to compensate them and that could be the end of ETI as we know it and also your route to cheap trailers. I'm sure this weighed heavily on Reace and Tammy's mind and may have been the reason why they got out while the going was good.

Right now you are buying a product in a foreign country, having it exported to you in your country without paying any duty, tariffs or sales tax to the exporting country. I have no doubt that if you bought the same Escape product made in America that the selling price would be much higher than what you are paying now.

End of rant.

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