Escape - USD and CAD Pricing/Payments

[gbaglo]

It has been said by some that the exporting country has to pay a tariff and suggests that enriches the US. In fact, it's the American importer who pays the tariff and passes that expense on to the US consumer.

[Curious Mike]

Nice to see this thread hasn't become political.

[sclifrickson]

Originally Posted by barry

This was somewhat said "tongue in cheek" therefore the "eek" emoji.

But, seriously in the big picture of things as Canadians we are constantly being ripped off by American companies. Go to any American ".com" web page on the internet and then go to the the corresponding ".ca" web page of the same company and be prepared to pay up to twice the price Cdn for the same product. Then go back to the .com web page and find that they don't and won't ship to Canada using that web page. Amazon is a prime example, Home Depot and Walmart the same. If I want to use the .com web site I'd have to use my credit card, pay in US dollars, pay the US sales tax for the state I have it shipped to, pay a fee to my credit card company for an out of country purchase, have the product sent to Ship Happens in Sumas, pay Ship Happens for using their services, go to Sumas to pick the item up, import the product to Canada myself and run the risk of having to pay duty and Canadian sales tax even though I've paid sales tax in the US.

When a US buyer is buying an Escape trailer they take possession in the US (Sumas) not Canada so should pay in US dollars. If they want to take possession in Canada and pay Canadian dollars there is nothing stopping them from doing that. They pay in Canadian dollars, pay our 12% sales tax and then drive off. When they get back to the US they can apply to get the sales tax back because they have now exported the trailer themselves to the US. But, Escape exports the trailer to the US for them saving them the hassle of doing that. Should it not be worth something to them for doing that by having slightly higher prices in US dollars when the exchange is taken into account?

Also, I'd be careful what you, as American buyers, complain about given your current US administrations policy on protectionism. It would only take complaints from Scamp, Casita and Oliver that Escape is cutting into their sales and has an unfair advantage over them due to the strength of the US dollar for your federal government to decide to slap a 40% tariff on Escape trailers being exported to compensate them and that could be the end of ETI as we know it and also your route to cheap trailers. I'm sure this weighed heavily on Reace and Tammy's mind and may have been the reason why they got out while the going was good.

Right now you are buying a product in a foreign country, having it exported to you in your country without paying any duty, tariffs or sales tax to the exporting country. I have no doubt that if you bought the same Escape product made in America that the selling price would be much higher than what you are paying now.

End of rant.

Barry

So, to summarize, other US companies stiff Canadians, so it’s ok for Canadians to stiff Americans. Surely your mom taught you that two wrongs do not make a right. Three lefts do, but not two wrongs.

I’d think that you’d be more sensitive to someone else getting hosed, since you’re getting the same routinely, rather than less sensitive to others being treated unfairly.

The thing that gets me about ETI’s current policy is that it is unnecessarily arbitrary. If some of ETI’s customers want the simplicity of purchasing in US$, then fine, sell at the posted US$ prices. If another US purchaser, however, is willing to take on the hoops, and the exchange fluctuation risk, to do the currency exchange themselves, then ETI should be willing to sell the product in CAN$ to that purchaser for the same price that they sell it to anyone else purchasing in CAN$.

Fine with me if ETI tacks on an additional US delivery charge for US customers purchasing in CAN$, to cover additional expenses of paperwork, processing time, delivery across the border, etc. That is fair.

As it is, ETI is arbitrarily selling the same product for a different price because of where someone lives. Discrimination. Wrong.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Bea

With this new change in policy that Karl is referring to in the 1st post (regardless of the improvements to their products they have made in the past years) from now on, the exact same trailer that rolls off the assembly line with the exact same customizations, will now cost about 10% more to a US customers than to a Canadian customer.

That difference exists because at this moment the relationship between the CAD and USD price lists is about 10% off of the current exchange rate. As the exchange rate changes and the lists are updated that difference will change and could be in favour of either currency.

As I have stated several times in this and a related discussion thread, finding this sort of difference is not an unusual experience for Canadians, and only seems to be a big problem when certain U.S. residents find themselves on the less desirable end of the difference. It doesn't bother me at all. It makes me think that if I had the available cash now would be a good time to buy, before ETI adjusts the price lists, which would likely increase my cost by 10% (and make no difference to the USD cost).

[barry]

Originally Posted by sclifrickson

So, to summarize, other US companies stiff Canadians, so it’s ok for Canadians to stiff Americans. Surely your mom taught you that two wrongs do not make a right. Three lefts do, but not two wrongs.

I’d think that you’d be more sensitive to someone else getting hosed, since you’re getting the same routinely, rather than less sensitive to others being treated unfairly .........................................

If you want to think that way then that's fine, three people can read something and all get a different take on it. I merely pointed out what we, as Canadians, go through when we buy from an American web site, will it change, no, do those companies care, no and charging double (and that's no kidding sometimes) is a ripoff .

I'm sorry if I offended you and I agree that two wrongs don't make a right. But, I don't really think you guys are getting wronged. I pointed out that as Americans buying a Canadian product you are still getting a smoking deal as the same product made in the US would be thousands more because the currency exchange works in your favour. I also pointed out that the product crosses freely through the border and if that were to change you as American buyers would loose your advantage.

When you pay for a product in a foreign currency the seller has to build in a buffer when accepting that currency, that's a normal way of doing business. They have to take into account fluctuating exchange rates and the extra paperwork and banking details of handling that currency. I really don't think you are getting "stiffed" as you put it given the small premium you are paying considering the deal you are getting on the trailer in the first place. The way Tammy and Reace conducted business was an exception to the rules rather than the other way around.

I live 40 minutes drive from the Escape factory. When I buy a trailer made locally, in my own country, I pay thousands more in Canadian dollars than a person who walks in from the US and pays in US dollars all because of the exchange rate. Are you sensitive to that? ......... because I think I'm being "hosed" as you put it, you probably don't agree. I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, but take home wages in both countries are very similar.

I'm not replying to you to create a rift or cause animosity, I'm merely stating my point of view as a Canadian as there are two sides to every story.
Barry

[sclifrickson]

Originally Posted by barry

If you want to think that way then that's fine, three people can read something and all get a different take on it. I merely pointed out what we, as Canadians, go through when we buy from an American web site, will it change, no, do those companies care, no and charging double (and that's no kidding sometimes) is a ripoff .

I'm sorry if I offended you and I agree that two wrongs don't make a right. But, I don't really think you guys are getting wronged. I pointed out that as Americans buying a Canadian product you are still getting a smoking deal as the same product made in the US would be thousands more because the currency exchange works in your favour. I also pointed out that the product crosses freely through the border and if that were to change you as American buyers would loose your advantage.

When you pay for a product in a foreign currency the seller has to build in a buffer when accepting that currency, that's a normal way of doing business. They have to take into account fluctuating exchange rates and the extra paperwork and banking details of handling that currency. I really don't think you are getting "stiffed" as you put it given the small premium you are paying considering the deal you are getting on the trailer in the first place. The way Tammy and Reace conducted business was an exception to the rules rather than the other way around.

I live 40 minutes drive from the Escape factory. When I buy a trailer made locally, in my own country, I pay thousands more in Canadian dollars than a person who walks in from the US and pays in US dollars all because of the exchange rate. Are you sensitive to that? ......... because I think I'm being "hosed" as you put it, you probably don't agree. I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, but take home wages in both countries are very similar.

I'm not replying to you to create a rift or cause animosity, I'm merely stating my point of view as a Canadian as there are two sides to every story.
Barry

Barry, I hear what you’re saying. Your points are all valid. Except for one thing that you’re not addressing, which is that ETI will no longer sell US customers their product for the same CAN$ price that they’ll sell to everyone else. If they were to offer a choice to US customers, and then hold them to it, adding in a buffer for those choosing US$ transactions, then that would be fine. My objection is that they are refusing to offer US customers the same price as others.

I have no skin in this game. I am not in the market for a trailer. I am not personally affected by this change in policy. I am speaking up solely because I view this business decision as unjust, and I am very disappointed in Escape Trailer Industry, which I had held formerly in the highest of regard, precisely because they *always* went above and beyond to take care of their customers. All of their customers.

I hope Tammy and Reace are doing well. Miss their business acumen that built a customer base that felt like a family.

Are you listening Escape? You are losing customers, both former and prospective.

[barry]

Scott

That's the problem with life, things change and we are reluctant to accept the change.

After my family emigrated from the UK I grew up on a 30 acre farm where I could see the US border from our property. I used to ride my bike with my friends down to Lynden WA. to spend my allowance and in those days the US and Canadian dollar were basically on par and even sometimes we had an advantage of maybe 5 cents. The border station was a small brick house and we knew all the border guards as friends, we chatted for a while and then went on our way. No passports, no ID. On the way back the guards would wave to us as we passed back into Canada.

One day one of the US guards at that small rural border station was shot and killed by a fugitive he was trying to apprehend, he was the nicest guy you could ever meet, the border station is now named in his memory. When I go stateside I pass through that same border station, my licence plate is photographed, I have to drive through a contraption that I'm not sure what it does but I'm guessing it's some kind of X-ray machine, I have to show my passport and 99.9% of the time I'm let through with a minimum of fuss, but I don't know anyone anymore. I would love to go back to the old way of crossing again but times are different now and it will never be the same again.

Tammy and Reace ran a special company, in the early days I would often drop in and chat with Reace if I had a problem, he was a wealth of information. Once when I dropped in to chat about gluing a solar panel onto my 17B he offered to let me use his glue gun, as long as I had it back by Monday morning! I ended up buying a new 5th wheel, but that's another story.
Barry

[Centex]

The harsh reality is that when corporations do heavy-handed things, even grossly or maliciously unethical or life-endangering things (think VW, GM, Ford, Apple, etc, etc, etc, past 'transgressions', which are too numerous to list), more often than not their survival and success can be ensured by offering competitive products and value to the market in the moments after.

Sure, they alienate some old customers, lose some potential customers, but if they offer competitive product value after the transgression they usually survive and often thrive. Most consumers have short memories, few consumers forfeit a good value in-hand for principles, most successful business leaders know this and effectively maneuver through it.

Yes, there are of course exceptions.

Not suggesting that's "good" in every sense of the word, nor am I suggesting that reality should direct individual stakeholder or consumer decisions. I do suggest that's a pragmatic view worthy of acknowledgment.

I think it also bears acknowledgment that even at the USD price forced on US customers, ETI at this moment still offers a uniquely competitive product and value to those consumers.

Carry on.

[Jim Bennett]

Just playing a bit of devil's advocate here. No bad feelings really intended.

Let's say Escape offered a trailer contract in USD equivalent with the exact exchange rate in CAD at this time when the USD has risen way above normal against the CAD. Should the exchange rate move back closer to par during the time between the contract signing and the actually time of production, would those in the US be willing to compensate Escape for the difference to cover the losses they would suffer due to this? It would be a similar situation as to having Escape compensate them for the change now moving in the opposite direction.

Personally, I think that regardless of not posting an exact exchange rate on their site, that an Escape trailer is still a great deal for US people. Buy comparing to value against US made trailers. As Barry mentioned, I have witnessed an costs that disfavours Canadians when shopping the same company on the .com and .ca sites. Not happy with it, but it is life and I make my decisions according to how I see the actual value.

12 years ago, the CAD traded over par with the USD for the last time, but even before that I really don't remember as huge of a difference as we have now. I certainly hope it corrects, or all the plans of touring the US will need to be drastically reduced, and I really don't want to do that as I very much enjoy travelling in the US and meeting all the great folks that live there.

Wouldn't it be nice if our exchange rate was at par and always stayed there?

[EdColorado]

Looking at the new US pricing through the eyes of a US owner, should I put my Escape on the market, I should be able to get a higher price because prospects will be comparing the price of my used unit to current pricing for new.
The newer the resale unit the truer this is.

Were I upgrading, just maybe the premium I could command on sale of my current Escape would offset the new US premium.

Ed

[Ronn]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Just playing a bit of devil's advocate here. No bad feelings really intended.

Let's say Escape offered a trailer contract in USD equivalent with the exact exchange rate in CAD at this time when the USD has risen way above normal against the CAD. Should the exchange rate move back closer to par during the time between the contract signing and the actually time of production, would those in the US be willing to compensate Escape for the difference to cover the losses they would suffer due to this? It would be a similar situation as to having Escape compensate them for the change now moving in the opposite direction.

Very good point Jim.

When we bought our trailer we took the exchange rate risk, not ETI. We sent our money into ETI at various times prior to completion and each of the payments in US$ was adjusted according to the then exchange rate (plus charges and any slippage).

If we had paid the total amount at the beginning and the rate dropped substantially as it has now should I have considered it "unfair" due to the fact that ETI made extra on me. Had it gone the other way would I have been smiling all the way to the bank? ETI took that risk and didn't ask anyone for more money due to the exchange rate at the time of delivery.

I think what most of us did was live with our payment timing decisions and were happy when the exchange rate was in our favor but if it were unfavorable we would have said "should of could of would of". I doubt many buyers forfeited their deposit due to the fact the exchange rate moved against them.

Seems we are wanting to "have our cake and eat it too".

[sclifrickson]

Originally Posted by Ronn

Seems we are wanting to "have our cake and eat it too".

No. That is not it. I want everyone to be able to pay the same price for the same product. US customers are being treated differently than all others by not being allowed to purchase in CAN$. It’s discrimination. It’s wrong. Maybe not legally wrong, but morally wrong.

[barry]

Originally Posted by sclifrickson

No. That is not it. I want everyone to be able to pay the same price for the same product. US customers are being treated differently than all others by not being allowed to purchase in CAN$. It’s discrimination. It’s wrong. Maybe not legally wrong, but morally wrong.

I see your point but .............. if I went to Casita and demanded to be allowed to pay in Canadian dollars, would they let me?
Barry

[sclifrickson]

Originally Posted by barry

I see your point but .............. if I went to Casita and demanded to be allowed to pay in Canadian dollars, would they let me?
Barry

No. US business = pay in US$. Maybe you’re missing the point here. Who is demanding to pay ETI in US$? I am objecting that they are not allowing US customers to pay in CAN$.

The Casita situation would only be comparable if Casita refused to let Canadians pay in US$, but *required* them to pay in CAN$, and at a rate that was out of line (to Casita’s favor) with the exchange rate.

I would be just as outraged at any US business that did, or does, this to Canadians as I am at ETI right now. Their behavior is not wrong because it hurts US buyers. It’s wrong because discrimination is inherently wrong.

[barry]

Originally Posted by sclifrickson

No. US business = pay in US$. Maybe you’re missing the point here. Who is demanding to pay ETI in US$? I am objecting that they are not allowing US customers to pay in CAN$.

My point was that I would be asking Casita to change their pricing policy.

I think Jim described it best by pointing out that the currency exchange is floating, it changes daily and the price difference "hit" could go both ways. Before it was up to the customer to do their research and time their payments to get the best exchange rate. In the past US Customer A could end up paying a lot more than US customer B for the same trailer just by how and when they paid for their trailer even though they may pick the same identical trailer up on the same day. Now all US customers know right from the beginning how much their trailer will cost and all US customers will end up paying the same price.

Isn't this fun that we have all this time sitting on the forum hashing out silly points when normally we'd be out camping and enjoying the great spring weather.
Barry

[XBeatzX]

Originally Posted by barry

I see your point but .............. if I went to Casita and demanded to be allowed to pay in Canadian dollars, would they let me?
Barry

HUh.....I just can't wrap my head around why is this so hard to comprehend. Of course Casita would not accept Canadian dollars. The problem is they WILL NOT accept American dollars either, at least not from you. Everyone, and anyone else in the world, no problem at all. But not you sir.

[M & M]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

It has been said by some that the exporting country has to pay a tariff and suggests that enriches the US. In fact, it's the American importer who pays the tariff and passes that expense on to the US consumer.

So true, this a line from Build Sheet:

Importation Fees (US Customers Only) 160 160.00

That's USD.

Mario

[Bakes99]

There’s one thing potential customers could do if they are not happy with the way Escape conducts its business. You could just move on to another trailer company. The customer has all the power, just don’t buy it if you can’t get passed this.
You can get a well equipped Oliver elite 2 for around $65000. That’s $96000 for the customers up North.

[M & M]

Originally Posted by Bakes99

There’s one thing potential customers could do if they are not happy with the way Escape conducts its business. You could just move on to another trailer company. The customer has all the power, just don’t buy it if you can’t get passed this.
You can get a well equipped Oliver elite 2 for around $65000. That’s $96000 for the customers up North.

Is not a matter of being "not happy"
US customers (in the process) are being refused rights, given to us in writing.
You don't see Karl (ETI) offering the returned of the USD 2000 deposit, after he changed the rules.
Mario

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by M & M

Is not a matter of being "not happy"
US customers (in the process) are being refused rights, given to us in writing.
You don't see Karl (ETI) offering the returned of the USD 2000 deposit, after he changed the rules.
Mario

The deposit is returnable except for $500 cdn until the build sheet is signed.