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Old 07-14-2020, 07:35 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by camp4528 View Post
If you haven't gone through this still current thread, there's lots of pros and cons of various options, which I found very useful: https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...yer-18101.html

I assume with your focus on cooking, you will get the three-burner + oven.
Like many others, I would do solar now.
If you're bringing an Instant Pot, you might consider the whole house inverter for brief use since it can drain the batteries - but you have solar to pump them back up. Or use the propane stove for everything.

If you're not handy (like me), I think generally the Escape prices are not unreasonable to do now. Someone on the forum quoted something like "you're better to have it and not need it, than to need it but not have it."

I'm still deciding what to do myself, so anything I said here is in complete ignorance, but based on quite a bit of obsessive research.

Be sure to check out kavm's thread.
Thanks! Yes I have found Kavms thread very helpful! I hear you that I'm worried about that "you're better to have it and not need it, than to need it but not have it."
We are pretty traditional cooks so don't use any plug-in appliances other than a rice cooker which we could get 12V, but I do find the oven option so tempting!
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Old 07-14-2020, 07:41 PM   #22
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Uncle Tim, This makes sense! You are making me think twice, for sure.
On one of your posts on a different thread, I thought you may have said that you added the exterior shower to BOTH sides so you didn't have to decide. Is that what you meant? It sounds awesome - one for cooking, one for mess. That is something that sounds really useful with little kids. Was curious if that was really what you were saying.
Yeah, showers on one side, breakfast on the other. You can use one shower to clean up breakfast and move the kitchen outside. That's good.

We also figured out you can get these water bags, fill them up with water, transfer the water to the camper, charge the water heater (electric and propane is faster) and take long showers outside without filling up the gray water tank. Pipe the water into the camper with an electric drill and hose. Bypass the bathroom and take biodegradable soap based showers outside. Brilliant! In my little mind.

I have a 4x4 shower tent (Zodi) with top for privacy. We take showers in there. It has a floor too. We can do it without the hot water system in the trailer too. We have a Zodi push button pump (not heated) and a hose and shower head. We take showers anywhere. Camper or not!

Zodi Portable Instant Hot Showers | Zodi SAFE Tent Heaters | Free Shipping * on Orders over $100 | Zodi.com

https://smartbottleinc.com/product-category/commercial/

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The awning windows let you open the windows and keep them open in any storm. We have been degassing for about a month now. Not shut once. And they do stay warm.

One last note, not proven yet either. We have two solar panels. After 9 am, we can charge anything. All day long. Sun orientation doesn't seem to be a big deal. Take outside showers in the day, warmer and you can recharge the camper quickly, if you use electric too. I probably would only use propane without shore power until I know I can do it, without a big power drain. Right now I do not know that!
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Old 07-14-2020, 07:48 PM   #23
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Go here for a brief introduction to 12v and battery power, read both parts (1) and (2)
The 12volt Side of Life (Part 1)
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Old 07-14-2020, 11:23 PM   #24
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Do you find that many people end up getting a generator? I noticed that the availability of sites with electric hookups is dramatically diminshed right now with the sudden rise in RVing.
Welcome Lindsay! Great build sheet! and great questions! Here's my 2 cents. If you think you will cook a lot, especially for a family, then I recommend getting the oven. I love and use ours on almost every trip. You can cook in the oven whether you have shore power (hook ups) or not since it runs on propane. If you do get the oven, then I also recommend you get a (non glazed) pizza stone and place it right under the baking shelf for even heat displacement, such as:

https://www.amazon.com/Pizzacraft-Ro...780464&sr=8-14

Since I got the pizza stone, everything bakes nice and even. No hot/burnt spots.

You ask about the microwave. To run a microwave you'll need either electric hook-ups or a good inverter or a generator to run it while dry camping. If you go with Escape's microwave, it is a regular nice 700W microwave and Escape's inverter is a big 2000W unit so that could easily power your microwave and probably your rice cooker, too. (My rice cooker is 200W.) However, if you do get their inverter, then I would definitely get solar since your inverter will be depleting your battery power supply and you'll be thankful to have that solar panel recharging your batteries back up. A big inverter like the one ETI offers is also nice for the occasional times you may want to use a microwave for a quick lunch stop, while on the road. But if you decide you don't need the microwave or ETI's inverter, then you could purchase a smaller portable inverter that can power things like your lap top, etc while dry camping.

You ask about generators. Basically, you need to either have hook-ups to run your air conditioner or a generator to power it. We carry a generator for 3 reasons. 1. To run the AC if we're dry camping and it's HOT 2. To recharge the batteries in emergencies (if the solar doesn't keep up due to dense shade, or snow, etc). 3. To help others with battery distress. (One friend of ours seems humorously plagued.) If you plan to get a generator, then I recommend you look at duel fuel (gasoline & propane) generators. We just tested our new dual fuel Champion 2000 W generator and it performed and ran our AC on propane just fine. (We were at 1600 ft altitude.) No need to carry gasoline in a can! And if you get the propane quick connect, you can connect your generator up to that! (We discovered how to do that on the Air Stream forum.)

Again, congrats on your new Escape and welcome to the club! Lots of wonderful folks here who enjoy helping others! -Bea

PS On edit, I see you did not check the 'surge protector'. The 'surge protector' is very important and does so much more than protect against surges. It protects all your electronics on board (solar, refrigerator, etc) from all types of damaging/bad power outlets. It has saved us twice already and I highly recommend it.
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Old 07-14-2020, 11:51 PM   #25
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Welcome!!

I will second Bea's comments about the oven. We had a microwave in our prior Escape but opted for the oven with the three burner cooktop in our 5.0. We use that combination much more than we ever did the microwave. Also the cabinet where the microwave normally goes is now valuable pantry space. My wife loves InstaPot cooking even at home. We got the full solar option with inverter and twin 6v batteries primarily for the InstaPot. The beauty of this setup is the InstaPot draws most of its power in the first couple of minutes while coming up to temp. Then the power draw in minimal during the cooking phase. Our solar system has generally fully charged the batteries by mid-day following an InstaPot supper.

Regarding outside showers on both sides. We use the passenger side with a little gooseneck spigot for our outdoor kitchen. The driver side with ETI's provided coiled hose and sprayer to clean dirty feet, dogs, and rinse out the sewer hose on those occasions when a dump station does not have rinse water. (It happens) You can see the dishwash station on the attached picture while we were boon docking last week.

A generator is not a decision you need to make now. Solar is. We bought a generator 4 years ago, hauled it with us for the first year and only used it once. The solar kept up the rest of the time. Since then the generator stays home and is only fired up twice a year to keep it working.

Cheers!
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Old 07-15-2020, 07:13 AM   #26
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I sold my generator with my first Escape and have not missed it since.........
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Old 07-15-2020, 07:44 AM   #27
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I sold my generator with my first Escape and have not missed it since.........
Do you mostly camp at campgrounds with electrical hookups or dry camp with no hookups?
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Old 07-15-2020, 07:46 AM   #28
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Both, over the past 3 Escapes I have honed my current model to meet all my needs, except for air conditioning, to be without hook ups.
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Old 07-15-2020, 08:45 AM   #29
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I see the second solar panel is only $480. That's a steal installed for you! Skip the generator. We mostly camp without hookups (boondock?) but at times wish we had the second panel.

$40 for a sewer tube kit? Bring your own quality 5' and 10' sewer tubes and angles. We have both the 5' and the 10' in our sewer tube holder. We've used our 10' sewer tube hooked to our 5' (15') once. I just threw out the 20' cheap ETI provided sewer tube. The 5' at the sewer dump is extremely easy to clean. The 10 or 15' tubes at the sewer dump are a PITA, kind of like cleaning a live snake.

I second the electric door lock for the kids.

Just my opinion.

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Old 07-15-2020, 09:17 AM   #30
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If you go with Escape's microwave, it is a regular nice 700W microwave and Escape's inverter is a big 2000W unit so that could easily power your microwave and probably your rice cooker, too.
Unless things have changed I believe the Escape inverter is 1500W.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bea View Post
You ask about generators. Basically, you need to either have hook-ups to run your air conditioner or a generator to power it. We carry a generator for 3 reasons. 1. To run the AC if we're dry camping and it's HOT 2. To recharge the batteries in emergencies (if the solar doesn't keep up due to dense shade, or snow, etc). 3. To help others with battery distress. (One friend of ours seems humorously plagued.)
I once used my generator to power a 1500W pizza oven for clueless campers that set up on a site across from me. No utilities at this campground so with the generator was able to cook them dinner for which they were very thankful. Ill-prepared is an understatement. It rained very hard that night and everything was soaked including everything inside their tents. Not surprising they packed up early and left.
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Old 07-15-2020, 09:53 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Lmkeaz View Post
Do you find that many people end up getting a generator? I noticed that the availability of sites with electric hookups is dramatically diminshed right now with the sudden rise in RVing.
Maybe this is an exceptional case but I was vying for one of 5 open sites (of 33) with electric at Assateague State Park to camp with the wild horses next June. Exactly a year in advance with 3 computers and 2 Ipads in the reservation arsenal. The entire family hit reserve at exactly 9AM and we could not get a site! I can't help but wonder how many people were trying for them. Did the people who got them have faster internet or were they located closer to the main server? Should I have hit reserve at 8:59:59 to account for latency as some suggest on the internet? I was perplexed. The more I think about it the more I need to go camping.
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Old 07-15-2020, 11:01 AM   #32
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Escape Forum Overwhelmment!

I'm sure you're even more overwhelmed now than when you started.

First you have to realize that everyone's camping style is different. Some may always camp with electrical hookups others may never camp with electrical hookups.

Does it make a difference for something like a getting the oven or not? YES!
Your trailer is small, an oven gets hot. Summers are hot. So, if you camp during the summer and don't have electricity to use your air conditioning you might not want to use an oven. Someone who always camps with electrical hookups and is able to run their air conditioning is very truthful in saying they always use their oven. But, if you boondock especially without a generator that probably won't apply to you.

Which is a good segue to talk about generators. You said money was tight. A generator is by far you most cost effective means of getting 120 volt power for your trailer while boondocking.

Let's look at having Escape install an inverter.

Solar panel with charge controller - $680
1500 watt Go Power Inverter - $632
So you've spent over $1200 and it can't run your air conditioner.
What can it run? Well, it can charge your laptop! So can a $35 300 watt inverter that plugs into the cigarette plug that comes with your trailer.

Boondocking I think you do need a Solar Panel and charge controller, but, without an large inverter there is no need for a second solar panel. A single 190 watt solar panel is more than enough to keep up with the 12 volt usage of your trailer. LED lights, Maxxair fan, bathroom fan, refrigerator and water heater controls when on propane, water pump, and even running the furnace.

Does the person recommending a $480 second solar panel have an inverter, does he run a microwave on an inverter, does he really need it when just using 12 volt systems? Without knowing the context, it may or may not apply to you.

For the same ~$600 you spent on adding an inverter you can buy a dual fuel 2000 watt inverter generator that can run your air conditioner. And you don't have to buy it today.

The inverter was the one option that I felt, I could install a better system than what Escape offers for less money. That and spray foam and heating pads were the two options that I didn't get, but, plan on adding myself at a later date. I did get a heat pad ready option where ETI runs the wiring for the the heat pads, for later installation.

If you decide not to get an oven, inverter, or microwave. You can opt for a $100 microwave ready option. Escape will move the drawers left, and leave an opening for a microwave under the stove top, and most importantly add an outlet to that cabinet so you can add a microwave at a later date.

If you decide to get an oven, I can see no reason to get an inverter. We have an instapot and love it too. But, before we got the instapot we bought a Presto Pressure Cooker, that works on the propane stove top, and while it requires more attention can do many of the things an instapot can do.

We typically run our generator for a half hour in the morning, while fixing breakfast, and a half hour in the evening when fixing dinner. Typically, those times coincide with campground 'generator' hours too.

Here's what my build sheet ended up being.
Escape build sheet 1.JPG
Attachment 48682
I wasn't on a budget, so I got a lot of options, that you don't need. But, I'm posting it more to show what I didn't get.
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Old 07-15-2020, 11:34 AM   #33
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I kept mentioning context of how a person camps and really didn't mention how we camp. We almost exclusively dry camp (no hookups). We had a stick built trailer for a number of years. That trailer was very similarly equipped to the Escape we are getting. It had air conditioning and a microwave, but, no solar. We previously mostly used it on typical couple of week vacations.

In 2018 we took a month and a half long trip to Yellowstone with the RV, again almost exclusively dry camping in State Park, National Park, and Forest Service Campgrounds. We also spent an additional two weeks that year at Shenandoah National Park.

In 2019 we took a 2 month trip to Yosemite without our trailer, in a partially converted Sprinter van. Again almost exclusively dry camping, we camped mostly in Forest Service Campground, National Park Campgrounds, and occasional boondocking.

Here is an inReach tracking map of our two trips. Note the second trip didn't have breadcrumbs returning from Yosemite, so those are just scattered check ins.

inReach tracking.JPG
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Old 07-15-2020, 11:54 AM   #34
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A freestanding solar system can be added at any time in the future (although I'm not taking away from the convenience of factory installation). I have a 70W panel that I can set on the ground, wired via a hacked extension cord to a waterproof Morningstar controller (about $30), and that attaches to the 7-pin wiring harness to charge the battery. Not fancy, but it works. Inverters are available aftermarket, too. 70W was enough to keep the battery charged for my lights, water pump, and fan (back when I had an actual travel trailer). I would've only needed more solar and battery capacity if I'd wanted to run a DC compressor fridge, microwave, or other power-hungry electric stuff.

That said, if and when I can buy a new Escape, I might let them install solar anyway because I can see myself using that microwave while boondocking, and perhaps an Instant Pot too.

I hope that helps.
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Old 07-15-2020, 12:07 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Lmkeaz View Post
Its so helpful to hear your version! I like the idea of TV ready and an exterior 12v plug. Also you are making me think more about the oven and microwave options. We do use them both a lot when we cook at home, I just thought we would be in a different mode when camping, and do most our cooking outside the camper on the grill/stove.

Does the oven work when you are boondocking and don't have electical hookups? I was thinking that AC, microwave, and oven wouldn't work in that instance. Does the microwave only work boondocking if you get an "inverter microwave" like you mentioned - and is the factory installed microwave one of those?
What are the moments when you appreciate the heat strip? Since I was told the AC doesn't work when boondocking, I wasn't sure we would use the heat strip very much. And the bathroom window - do you usually keep the bathroom door closed so its nice to have a little ventilation in there?
Sorry so many questions...
I thought we would cook outside also, but wife likes to cook inside and not having to bring another grill saves space.

My understanding of an inverter microwave (I don't have one to confirm) is that you can reduce the current draw to where it is reasonable for a battery to power it. You do still need the inverter to get your 120V. I happen to have an inverter from our old (home made) trailer that I can use, otherwise I wouldn't bother with it. Mostly we can get by without the microwave these days but in the past we used it a lot for heating up bottles of milk. My single 12V battery wouldn't power even a 700W microwave very well..almost would. It's really not a high priority item...but rather a reason to NOT get the Escape microwave as it eliminates that upgrade path.

The heat strip is only for hook ups and just saves you from using your propane. Not sure if there is a benefit to humidity levels. Not essential at all.

Bathroom door has gaps top to bottom so it will get some venting, and you can always keep the roof vent open as well. The manual awning isn't really a problem on our 21...you can't open the window fully but enough. I figure anything to help get moisture out is good. I would only consider the electric awning for looks. The power jack isn't necessary at all, I really wonder why that is so popular.

We did the exterior shower on the passenger side and I still feel that is the best. Once the kids are washed they can go right into the trailer. Rinsing out the sewer hose is something I do when there is water available but since it just drained the gray water (black first, gray second)...which is nothing but soapy water....I don't think there is much need really for another rinse, but I do it if it's there.
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Old 07-15-2020, 12:11 PM   #36
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Old 07-15-2020, 12:24 PM   #37
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Thank you for all this input! One thing I keep getting confused about is what will work when we are camping with no electrical hookups - would a microwave work when we have no electrical hookups?
I addressed this in my other post, but, running a generator for a half hour as you cook your meal you can use the microwave without hookups. And, if you run it a little longer you can run your air conditioning to cool off the trailer after cooking and before bed.


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Originally Posted by Lmkeaz View Post
The windows are still a dilemma to me. We want the back window to open for better ventilation. Escape now lets you mix windows, so we could go with all framed windows except for exchange the back window for a frameless, but that costs $312. So then for $360 you can get all frameless windows, and I was under the impression that the frameless were better insulated, so might be worth it. What do you think? It did look like the framed windows opened better for ventilation.
The emergency exit window on the drivers side of the bed opens 'awning style' even when you have framed windows, but, it opens a little further than frameless windows. So even if it is raining combined with the Maxxfan which can also be used in the rain there shouldn't be any concern about, enough ventilation. And when it is not raining, the passenger side window opens further than frameless windows do, so I don't see the reason for frameless windows anywhere.

Framed windows are also thermal windows just like the frameless windows are.

The other thing to be aware of is that some people have had their frameless windows open from vibration while driving, and get damaged. If you look closely at the pictures of them, you'll see the pane of glass on a frameless window kind of sticks out from the side of the trailer, where it is constantly getting buffeted by the wind. IMO there is no reason to get frameless windows, and especially if you're getting a manual awning like I did there are several reasons not to.
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Old 07-15-2020, 12:59 PM   #38
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Unless things have changed I believe the Escape inverter is 1500W.
Thanks for the correction! Escape's inverter is still 1500W...my bad. My husband was showing me some 2000W inverters ads the other day and my brain was stuck on those. We didn't get ETI's inverter...but my husband is feeling tempted to install a big one for use on our future road trips when we retire. So, if you decide not to get one now, it can always be added later, if you are electrically inclined. -Bea
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Old 07-15-2020, 01:10 PM   #39
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TTMartin,
While you use of the awning egress window in an E19 in the rain is fine, the all frameless option allows every window to be open in the rain vs just one. In my trailer that means 9 windows.....
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Old 07-15-2020, 01:40 PM   #40
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Maybe this is an exceptional case but I was vying for one of 5 open sites (of 33) with electric at Assateague State Park to camp with the wild horses next June. Exactly a year in advance with 3 computers and 2 Ipads in the reservation arsenal. The entire family hit reserve at exactly 9AM and we could not get a site! I can't help but wonder how many people were trying for them. Did the people who got them have faster internet or were they located closer to the main server? Should I have hit reserve at 8:59:59 to account for latency as some suggest on the internet? I was perplexed. The more I think about it the more I need to go camping.
Seems like somewhere in the past I had read they found out Employees and insiders got those before it actually opened. If I recall it was the CA reservation system. Hope this isn’t still going on, but it sure makes you wonder especially when you see the reservations offered on Craigslist etc. later on.
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