Two New Owners-To-Be

[J&G]

We pick up our new 19 this summer (yay!) and have been enjoying every post on the forum while we wait. So to give back, we'd like to share the info we got from ETI about our new trailer's weight. We read on the forum that ETI has a computer program that will estimate the trailer weight with all the options added. We selected a lot of options on our build sheet including 4 reinforced walls. The computer estimate is 3485 lbs for the trailer with the options. The cargo weight is 1235. I doubt that we would have that much cargo, but it is good to know. That would put us at 4720 lbs. We have a 2016 Tacoma 4X4 that we will use as our tow vehicle. (Does anyone know if crawl control is useful going down steep grades with a trailer?) We are counting the days until our orientation, and the trailer hasn't even been started yet. So excited!!!

[float5]

I think something was lost in the translation. Even a 21' does not weigh that much.

[rotateclockwise]

Originally Posted by J&G

We pick up our new 19 this summer (yay!) and have been enjoying every post on the forum while we wait. So to give back, we'd like to share the info we got from ETI about our new trailer's weight. We read on the forum that ETI has a computer program that will estimate the trailer weight with all the options added. We selected a lot of options on our build sheet including 4 reinforced walls. The computer estimate is 3485 lbs for the trailer with the options. The cargo weight is 1235. I doubt that we would have that much cargo, but it is good to know. That would put us at 4720 lbs. We have a 2016 Tacoma 4X4 that we will use as our tow vehicle. (Does anyone know if crawl control is useful going down steep grades with a trailer?) We are counting the days until our orientation, and the trailer hasn't even been started yet. So excited!!!

I too have a 2016 Tacoma 4X4. I would not recommend using crawl control as you described. That feature is primarily used when you have limited control and can only be used at very slow speeds (5mph or less). While I wouldn't feel comfortable towing the 6K+ capacity Toyota says the truck can handle, the weight you mentioned won't be a problem. When going down or even up a hill, I shift into 4th and sometimes into 3rd to keep the truck and trailer in control.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by float5

I think something was lost in the translation. Even a 21' does not weigh that much.

I would agree. The certified scale weight of my loaded 5.0TA is 4,400 lbs, and it is the heaviest trailer ETI makes. I believe the weight of our personal belongings would be similar to most everyone else's!

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by float5

I think something was lost in the translation. Even a 21' does not weigh that much.

I agree too. We have a lot of options on our 19, and its scale checked weight with cargo, food, clothes in the cupboards, a half full fresh water tank, full hot water heater, and the storage box full of hoses,chocks, etc. is 3400 lbs.


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[paulw]

Our 21 was just over 3600# as delivered..... so a 4500# Gross Vehicle Weight Rating gives us 900# or so to play with.
I guess the question is how much more steel is used for the wider frames and what is the impact on the GVWR of the new models.

[float5]

J&G, I did not see this is your first post, so WELCOME!

Where did you get the cargo number?

Guess you are excited!!

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by J&G

... we'd like to share the info we got from ETI about our new trailer's weight. We read on the forum that ETI has a computer program that will estimate the trailer weight with all the options added. We selected a lot of options on our build sheet including 4 reinforced walls. The computer estimate is 3485 lbs for the trailer with the options. The cargo weight is 1235. I doubt that we would have that much cargo, but it is good to know. That would put us at 4720 lbs.

That's 720 pounds over the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating for a 19'... are we talking about a 21', rather than a 19'?

Originally Posted by float5

I think something was lost in the translation. Even a 21' does not weigh that much.

Maybe not so...

Originally Posted by paulw

Our 21 was just over 3600# as delivered..... so a 4500# Gross Vehicle Weight Rating gives us 900# or so to play with.

That's 115 pounds higher (but for a 21').

A 19' this heavy would have 875 pounds of options (and 2017 weight increase)! A 21' at 3485 pounds would have 345 pounds of options (and again 2017 weight increase), which doesn't seem like very much given that an air conditioner alone is a third of that. Hmm...

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by paulw

I guess the question is how much more steel is used for the wider frames and what is the impact on the GVWR of the new models.

Very little more steel. 8 inches more bumper, about 15 inches more tongue rails, and a couple feet more crossmembers (which are much lighter sections) would likely only be about 5 kilograms (11 pounds). The axle will be little bit heavier as well (because it has 4 inches more tube length). The extra floor and ceiling width is probably more significant. The GVWR doesn't need to change at all - a bit of extra trailer weight can just mean the same amount less available cargo carrying capacity... although the numbers quoted suggest a slightly increased GVWR (assuming it's really a 21').

[Bill and Earline]

Originally Posted by J&G

We pick up our new 19 this summer (yay!) and have been enjoying every post on the forum while we wait. So to give back, we'd like to share the info we got from ETI about our new trailer's weight. We read on the forum that ETI has a computer program that will estimate the trailer weight with all the options added. We selected a lot of options on our build sheet including 4 reinforced walls. The computer estimate is 3485 lbs for the trailer with the options. The cargo weight is 1235. I doubt that we would have that much cargo, but it is good to know. That would put us at 4720 lbs. We have a 2016 Tacoma 4X4 that we will use as our tow vehicle. (Does anyone know if crawl control is useful going down steep grades with a trailer?) We are counting the days until our orientation, and the trailer hasn't even been started yet. So excited!!!

Glad to see another East Tennessee owner.
We towed our 21' with an older 4Runner for 20,000 miles or so. While it is only a distant relative to your new Tacoma, look us up and call the house sometime, and we'd be glad to share our experiences. We are home sometimes, but not often, so leave a message.
Bill

[J&G]

Thanks for the welcome, Cathy. And we hope to meet you one day, Bill.

I double checked my original email from Escape. I had even re-sent a reply to that email for verification because we too were surprised at the numbers, but knowing it was just a computer estimate, we weren't too concerned. After reading your responses today, I emailed ETI again this morning to triple check. Everyone at ETI is so helpful and quick to respond, so I expect I will have an answer this afternoon.

[paulw]

Originally Posted by J&G

Thanks for the welcome, Cathy. And we hope to meet you one day, Bill.

I double checked my original email from Escape. I had even re-sent a reply to that email for verification because we too were surprised at the numbers, but knowing it was just a computer estimate, we weren't too concerned. After reading your responses today, I emailed ETI again this morning to triple check. Everyone at ETI is so helpful and quick to respond, so I expect I will have an answer this afternoon.

Thanks John - congratulations on the new rig and welcome to the group
Your as delivered weight doesn't surprise me as its just a little lighter than my 2014 21' was.... my 21 probably has fewer options and only 2 reinforced walls.
I'm more curious about the cargo capacity or GVWR of the new models - Escape is kinda slow to update their website for the redesign.
An increased capacity would be welcome to me, but probably not everyone.

[Iowa Dave]

I am not a very good example of a go light camper, however there are any number of ways to keep your weight down which have been discussed previous. The best thing you can do is get an accurate weight on your camper and tow vehicle and hitch weight and adjust your cargo and tongue weight accordingly once you get it home and have used it a few times in my opinion. I have a great Korean War vintage military shovel. I like the shovel but it's just way (weigh) more than I need so it stays home for example. Pay attention to your tongue weight too. Makes a difference in trailer control especially on rolling two lane roads. Don't let the tail wag the dog. I like to tow level or about a half a bubble nose down on the Escape.
Dave

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by J&G

Thanks for the welcome, Cathy. And we hope to meet you one day, Bill.

I double checked my original email from Escape. I had even re-sent a reply to that email for verification because we too were surprised at the numbers, but knowing it was just a computer estimate, we weren't too concerned. After reading your responses today, I emailed ETI again this morning to triple check. Everyone at ETI is so helpful and quick to respond, so I expect I will have an answer this afternoon.

Hi: J&G... I've found the best way to keep my weight down is "The SlimFast" diet. No need to carry a slab of bacon and a side of beef!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[J&G]

ETI is so good at answering our many questions! Just got word from them that the computer estimated weights are correct for our 2017 19'. The GVWR is 5000 lbs.

[float5]

I don't know what is changed to go from 4000 to 5000 for a 19'. Maybe someone else does.

[Iowa Dave]

Another keep the weight down idea is to buy your beer close to where you camp and drink it all that night. As Miss Scarlet said," tomorrow is another day. Also good Tennessee whiskey straight up will do the job without the volume. Give away your spuds to a Canadian before you leave a Canadian campground. The Americans will just make you throw them out anyway.
Dave

[paulw]

Originally Posted by J&G

ETI is so good at answering our many questions! Just got word from them that the computer estimated weights are correct for our 2017 19'. The GVWR is 5000 lbs.

Thanks!
I always thought the GVWR (4500#) on the original 21 was pretty conservative considering it sits on twin 3000# axles, but I understand from reading here that in some states higher GVWR gets you into additional licensing requirements.

[skyfree]

Originally Posted by J&G

ETI is so good at answering our many questions! Just got word from them that the computer estimated weights are correct for our 2017 19'. The GVWR is 5000 lbs.

Nice! That is very good news for us and our 2017 19' on order. I was a bit worried about that 4,000 lb GVWR because I know how easy it is to go over. This gives me more peace of mind, and now I can load up on options

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by J&G

Just got word from them that the computer estimated weights are correct for our 2017 19'. The GVWR is 5000 lbs.

That explains an allowed loaded weight over GVWR - it's not, because the GVWR is higher than it was. The base dry weight is probably different from the published 2610 pounds, too... maybe by substantially more than the slight frame difference would cause.

This is the sort of situation which I find really frustrating. People have been purchasing 2017 model Escape trailers for ten weeks, and the published specs are still not right. Now the only thing that we can be sure of is that none of the weight or weight rating numbers can be trusted.

Originally Posted by float5

I don't know what is changed to go from 4000 to 5000 for a 19'. Maybe someone else does.

The GVWR of any vehicle is limited by several factors. In trailers, it is mostly the axle capacity and the frame strength. The Escape 19' has two Torflex #10 axles which are ordered with the internal rubber trimmed to suit a lower load than the maximum for a #10 (which is up to 3,500 pounds), and coordinated with the GVWR. To have a 5,000 pound GVWR, they must be ordered for a higher load (more rubber)... likely about 3,000 pounds each (instead of the current 2,500 pounds each).

The consequence of higher rating for the axles means that for two trailers of the same total loaded weight, the one with the higher-rated axles will be stiffer and ride more harshly. If the new trailer is heavier, then that extra stiffness is needed to maintain the same ride.

The frame structure of the 19' is already essentially the same as the 21', so it presumably has more than enough strength for a 5,000 pound GVWR.

Originally Posted by paulw

Thanks!
I always thought the GVWR (4500#) on the original 21 was pretty conservative considering it sits on twin 3000# axles, but I understand from reading here that in some states higher GVWR gets you into additional licensing requirements.

Licensing may be an issue, but it is not the reason for what looks like a mismatch between the GVWR and the axle capacities. Escape uses Torflex suspension (axles). In a tandem (two-axle) configuration the two axles do not evenly share load between them, so every time a wheel hits a bump that wheel's axle carries much more than its share of the load; to avoid overloading, each suspension (axle) needs a rated capacity which is significantly more than half of the total for the trailer. Reace selected the axle capacities for the 19' and 21' to properly allow for this, following Dexter's design recommendations; in the 21' this means 3,000 pounds for each axle rating, and 4,500 pounds for the trailer rating.