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Old 05-06-2019, 09:11 PM   #21
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You are lucky, in Pennsylvania no tag until the trailer can be inspected, so it has to be physically here before I can obtain tags.
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Old 05-07-2019, 12:09 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Platt Bell View Post
<sniped>

Ad valorem Penalty has a $5.00 minimum

Dealer Title Ad Valorem Tax penalty for not submitting TAVT within 30 days of purchase

5% of TAVT due after day 30 and 5% additional every month thereafter

Contact your local County Tag Office for details

Casual sale Title Ad Valorem Tax penalty for not submitting TAVT within 30 days of purchase

10% of TAVT after day 30 and 1% additional every month thereafter

Robert, I found this at: Georgia Amends Title Ad Valorem Tax on Motor Vehicles - Tax & Accounting Blog


"The combined state and local title ad valorem tax is 7% of the motor vehicle’s fair market value."


The key word is motor vehicle. Since our RV's do not have a motor to propel it down the highway the TAVT does not apply. But you will have to pay an ad valorem tax annually when you renew the tag. I have had to do this for the past 5 years for my '95 Scamp, and I am not looking forward to what I will have to pay for my Escape.
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Old 05-07-2019, 12:22 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Robert Platt Bell View Post
<sniped>

Georgia went to this three primary ID thing a few years back when I renewed my license. Rather than fight it, I sent away for a social security card, and brought my passport and birth certificate and previous license and..... no problem. In and out in 15 minutes.<sniped>
The process you are talking about is called REAL ID, it is a Federal Homeland Security program. You can read up on it here https://www.dhs.gov/real-id.


You think the guy at the DMV was having a meltdown about the documents he needed to renew his license, I can't wait to start seeing on the news about all the people melting down when they are not allowed to fly.
The Transportation Security Administration is reminding travelers that beginning October 1, 2020, every traveler must present a REAL ID-compliant driver’s license, or another acceptable form of identification, to fly within the United States.
Talk about some disappointed people, but it is what we have to deal with in these times.
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Old 05-07-2019, 08:18 AM   #24
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Thanks for the feedback. I amended my form MV-1 to put the "sale date" as May 7, 2019 which is today. I realized that the Escape people had pre-dated the document (I received it yesterday, the 6th) but then remembered that Vancouver is over the International date line, and when you convert metric to English, it works out to the 7th.

Yea, Pennsylvania. I grew up in Central New York, and we thought registering and inspecting a car was a PITA, but we always said, "Well, at least we aren't in PA!" because if you had any rust on your car they would not let it pass (so we were told).

I was told to get my boat trailer inspected in NY and I drove to five places locally and none of them inspected trailers, so I gave up. New York is an odd place. We had "Liberal Republicans" (yes, they existed, so did the dinosaurs) such as Nelson Rockefeller, who felt that big government was the answer - efficiently managed, of course, using computers an punch cards. We also had a lot of organized crime.

Back then, your driver's license was a piece of cardboard printed on a line printer - no photo, not waterproof. When you got a speeding ticket, the judge wrote down the offense on the back of the license. As a kid I got so may tickets, mine said, "offenses continued on next license" Just kidding.

Those were the days before Real ID - I didn't even have a birth certificate, but a "Notice of Birth" they handed my Mother that said, "unnamed male Bell" on it - My parents were so thrilled to have another child. They tossed me in the trunk of the Galaxy and drove home, smoking cigarettes and drinking martinis on the way (and while breast feeding). Those were heady days.

You can travel with an expired passport to Canada, I found out, the hard way. I let it expire and when we got to the border, the Canadian border guard said, "You know your passport is expired, eh?" and I said, "what does that mean?"

And he replied, "Well, you have to stay in Canada from now on!" We readily agreed and he quickly backtracked, realizing that he maybe opened a wormhole in the space-time continuum, and if Americans figured this out, the country would be flooded with them. I asked about getting back to the States and he said, "Oh, they have to take you back!" which they did.

I want to get one of those border express passes, but you have to appear in person, at a border patrol station, which is hard to do in Georgia. Maybe we'll try when we are in Seattle.

Anyway, I was sort of shocked moving to the South where we have no inspection and no emissions inspection, either. It is amazing to see what kind of jalopies go down the road, often with no tags or a piece of cardboard in the window saying, "Tag applied for!" In New York it was beaten into our heads that a car became an immovable brick once license plates were removed from it. Down here, well, things are a little more casual.

When I went to register my boat, they give you a two part form. You fill out both halves in pen and send in the upper half with your check. You keep the lower half that you filled out as your temporary registration, and leave your old registration numbers on the boat (from florida, no less) until they send you a new registration in six months.

Totally different attitude about government, it seems. And so far, there haven't been legions of rogue unregistered boats terrorizing the populace. But then again, we only have 100 miles of coastline (damn you, South Carolina! Oh, wait, you got the hurricane part). Nor have legions of un-inspected cars caused mayhem and destruction.

Of course, things are different in Alana (pronounced without the "t"'s around here). They even have emissions inspection up there. But locals tell me that's not really part of Georgia.

Well, off to the DMV, or more precisely the Glynn County Tax office (vehicles are registed with the tax authorities, driver's licenses by the DMV or MVD as they call it).

I looked up the official MVD assessment manual, by the way, which is used to calculate the "Fair Market Value" used for the 7% sales tax. It is kind of unfair. I sold my hail-damaged Nissan pickup to a friend for $11,000 and he had to pay taxes on the "Fair market value" of about $15,000.

On the other hand, the "fair market value" of the King Ranch was listed at $25,000, or the average price of a used F150. Never mind that it actually cost twice that. They don't tax the leather seats and retractable running boards.

Anyway, here is the manual:

https://dor.georgia.gov/sites/dor.ge...ent_Manual.pdf

And you are correct, there is no listing for trailers in it. Maybe because it is too hard to figure out FMV on a trailer. If so, then I have to pay the "ad valorum" tax (personal property tax) every year - probably about $1500 or so, declining with time.

Personal property taxes are one thing that is insane about the South - and it is going away. In the old days in Viringia, they taxed all your personal property. So every year, you had to pay tax on your sofa and your coffee table and presumably your shoes and socks. You could actually itemize your possessions and pay the tax, or you could elect to pay a flat fee based on a percentage of the assessed value of your home.

When I lived there, they had the tax only on cars, which was unfair, as people in Alexandria who worked in DC would register their cars there (a nightmare, because, well, DC government) while poorer folks couldn't do that.

The tax enforcers would cruise the parking lots of the apartment complexes, looking for new residents from out-of-state whose cars were not taxed, and then issue citations and even tow cars away. Pretty dumb way to collect taxes!

Anyway, they started to phase out the personal property tax as I was leaving. Looks like it still survives in Georgia, at least for trailers.

More on the Ad Valorem tax:

https://georgia.gov/popular-topic/ve...xes-ad-valorem

Ad Valorem tax calculator:

https://onlinemvd.dor.ga.gov/TAP/Welcome.aspx

Thank you. Your estimate is shown below:
Estimated Title Ad Valorem Tax: $2228.67
Estimated Title Ad Valorem Tax Penalties: $0.00
Estimated Total Title Ad Valorem Tax As of Date: $2228.67

OUCH!

This may be in addition to sales tax on the trailer.

Any time a trailer that requires a title is purchased from a business or dealer outside of Georgia, sales tax is due. The Georgia Department of Revenue (DOR) has determined 6% as the sales tax for Gwinnett residents. In such cases, the sales tax must be paid before you can title the trailer and receive a tag.
Sales Tax on Vehicles Purchased Out-of-State
https://gwinnetttaxcommissioner.publ...SalesTaxonVehi...

I guess I'll find out soon enough!
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Old 05-07-2019, 08:25 AM   #25
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What's that star on my license?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LIJ Michael View Post
The process you are talking about is called REAL ID, it is a Federal Homeland Security program. You can read up on it here https://www.dhs.gov/real-id.


You think the guy at the DMV was having a meltdown about the documents he needed to renew his license, I can't wait to start seeing on the news about all the people melting down when they are not allowed to fly.
The Transportation Security Administration is reminding travelers that beginning October 1, 2020, every traveler must present a REAL ID-compliant driver’s license, or another acceptable form of identification, to fly within the United States.
Talk about some disappointed people, but it is what we have to deal with in these times.
An easy way to check if you have REAL ID is to look at your license. If it has a star on it, it is REAL ID.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzanne...-a-star-on-it/

I haven't been on an airplane in ages. It really isn't much fun to fly anymore.
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Old 05-07-2019, 08:58 AM   #26
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I haven't been on an airplane in ages. It really isn't much fun to fly anymore.
This is why we have an Escape....
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Old 05-07-2019, 10:52 AM   #27
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Back in 1978 on a trip to Moscow I decided I wanted to buy something. I went to the store and I had to go to one department to pick out the item. Once I had picked out the item I was given a slip of paper that I took to another department to pay for the item I wanted. After paying for the item I was given a slip of paper and went to another department to pick up my purchase. I was then given another slip of paper that allowed me to get out of the store. This morning I drove the 22 miles to the county seat to get my plates for the new Escape. I went to the county treasurer's office and was told they have moved down the road. I go down the road to the county treasurers office and find out I have to go next door to the county auditor's office to get "a slip of paper" that I will have to take back to the county treasurer's office so that they will give me a slip of paper that I will then take over to the South Carolina DMV down the road. I walk into the county auditor's office and before I can say anything "Sorry, computers down" "But, I've just driven 22 miles" "Sorry, computers down". I guess I was lucky that back in 1978 was before the computer age. I still haven't even gotten my first slip of paper
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Old 05-07-2019, 12:14 PM   #28
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Cobb County Tax Office

I just drove over to the East Cobb office and asked about getting a plate before going to Canada.
Cobb is a 6% county so I pay 6% sales tax on the purchase price and then an ad valorem tax annually on the assessed valuation.

Contrast this with a private party purchase where I only pay the annual ad valorem tax. No sales tax at registration on the 2012 Casita last year. Paid $14,500 and they didn't want to look at the bill of sale. This year's valuation is $4,680.
This is different from a MOTOR vehicle - I bought a Subaru Forester in 2014 from a dealer and paid about 6.75 percent of a purchase price of about $27,000. The 2019 assessed value is $4,680 but there is no ad valorem tax.

I paid $1,000 for a home built motorcycle trailer in 2001 and the 2019 valuation is $40.


So, buying a new trailer from a dealer costs us in Georgia $2,000+ and then probably higher ad valorem taxes annually. Guess I should have found a used Escape.
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Old 05-07-2019, 12:16 PM   #29
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You are lucky, in Pennsylvania no tag until the trailer can be inspected, so it has to be physically here before I can obtain tags.
Jim, have you ever been stopped because you don't have a license plate?
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Old 05-07-2019, 12:21 PM   #30
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Jim, have you ever been stopped because you don't have a license plate?
I'm not aware anyone has been stopped nor questioned without a tag and some owners have taken months to get home. But once home the clock starts ticking to register or transfer tags from your old trailer, which I have.
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Old 05-07-2019, 04:01 PM   #31
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An Hour of My Life I Will Never Get Back

So, this is what it was like at the DMV (tax office) today:



An hour of my life I will never get back. I do have a registration and the tag from the Casita is now an ESCAPER ESCAPE 21 tag. Yes, they put down "ESCAPER" as that was on the pulldown menu. So long as the VIN is correct, I don't care.

$5 transfer fee.

Now, the title. This flummoxe them. Patty looked through the big honking binder, going over each page one at a time, "You'll need an EPA certificate!" she says. I explain that as a trailer, it has no motor and thus no need for EPA certification.

She calls Selma in for a conference. Patty wants the form T-22B (verification of the VIN number by a Gerogia peace officer) but Selma says they can process the paperwork and see if Atlanta wants the document. Patty wasn't so sure.

She wanted all the paperwork, including the customs form which we signed online, but was blank when sent to us (other than address). We called Escape and Tina told us to fill out the top two lines (name and SS numbers) and sign it, so we did.

They processed the title documents and ordinarily you get your title in 5-10 business days. However, if "Atlanta has questions" it may take longer. By at least apply for title, I avoid any late fees. There may be a $10 fee to correct issues with the title or submit additional documentation. Hopefully this will be after we get back from Canada, as I believe there is a 30 or 60 day period to respond.

Now the punchline - the sales tax was $2251.67 based on a roughly $30,000 USD sales price. I explained to her that the $42,000 sales price on the "bill of sale" was in Canadian funds, and she says "where does it say that on the form?" I looked and fortunately at the bottom, in red letters, it says, "ALL AMOUNTS IN CANADIAN DOLLARS"

She accepted this and my calculated conversion factor (based on today's exchange rates) and processed it. If Atlanta doesn't like my math, there may be a balance due or a refund given.

In addition to the sales tax, we will have to pay an annual property tax, which I suspect will be at least a grand or so, based on what they charged me for my car taxes, five years ago before they abolished the annual property tax for motor vehicles.

It is a confusing process, and the DMV clerks here in Glynn county had never had to process paperwork for a foreign trailer, and likely will never have to again.

I can't blame them for being too obstinate - they don't want to lose their jobs over some sketchy trailer docs.

We'll see what "Atlanta" says about the title application.

As for driving with no tags - the fellow who bought our Casita drove it back to Chicago with no tag (I put a dealer advertisement plate on the back - in some States that is considered a temp tag!). In Georgia, you can drive a vehicle several days (I recall like 7 or so) before getting it registered, provided it is insured and you have a bill of sale.

"“In the state of Georgia you cannot ride on the roads without having a vehicle that's registered.” If a purchaser of a vehicle cannot acquire the title within 7 days, the purchaser must come to the county tag office and register the vehicle. ... A metal license plate will be issued when the title is provided."

Now for the fun part - trip to Vancouver!
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Old 05-07-2019, 05:07 PM   #32
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Made the final payment on the trailer. Very easy to do using Bank of America. Enter the SWIFT code and account number and then hit "send".

Next Stop: Chilliwack!
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Old 05-11-2019, 02:25 AM   #33
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Ad Valorem Tax in GA

I suspect our bill of sale will incorporate items that include a charge for propane and importation fees, for which we pay the sales tax after purchase and an ad valorem tax every year of ownership.

In Cobb county that's 6% sales and about 3.03% annually of the depreciated value.

No sales tax on private party purchases if not motorized. I'll keep looking for used 21s until production starts, but so far there is too much difference in our options.
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Old 05-11-2019, 08:17 AM   #34
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I'm just across the Savannah, thank God, and because of what of what I was reading from Georgia residents I was a bit apprehensive. The county auditors office only included in the trailer's value those things trailer. When they calculated the conversion they came up with almost the same figure that I did. I did have to deal with both the county and the state. The county cost me $614. After you have paid the county tax you head over to the DMV. Here they're was a slight problem because of the unique situation that we Escape buyers are in. I wound up dealing with the office supervisor who downloaded a checklist from the state site for registering a new trailer from Canada. State cost me $525 and I left with a license plate. Took about 20 minutes both places.
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Old 05-12-2019, 06:44 PM   #35
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Hard to Find, for now

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I suspect our bill of sale will incorporate items that include a charge for propane and importation fees, for which we pay the sales tax after purchase and an ad valorem tax every year of ownership.

In Cobb county that's 6% sales and about 3.03% annually of the depreciated value.

No sales tax on private party purchases if not motorized. I'll keep looking for used 21s until production starts, but so far there is too much difference in our options.
We looked last year. I think we saw only one Escape 21 for sale, and they wanted $29,000 for it, not much less than a new one (about $30,000) and not quite the options we wanted. It was sold quickly, too.

Given the hassle of waiting to have it built and the costs of importing, etc. I suspect a late-model Escape holds its value pretty well, as do most fiberglass RVs.

I hope you can find a used one, but I suspect it would be a difficult search.

I am seeing more and more Casitas for sale in the teens and even around ten grand for older models. They have been in production for a while now, so the supply increases over time.

There are two kinds of Casita owners - those who keep them for 1-2 years and decided they are too small, and those who keep them forever. I suspect the same is true of the Escape, too.

So keep looking. You might get lucky and find someone who decides they "need" a 40-foot toy hauler instead of an Escape. But be ready to pounce - when we bought the Casita, there were four people who called the owner and said they would be there the next day with cash.
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Old 05-13-2019, 04:15 AM   #36
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I hope you can find a used one, but I suspect it would be a difficult search.

So keep looking. You might get lucky and find someone who decides they "need" a 40-foot toy hauler instead of an Escape. But be ready to pounce - when we bought the Casita, there were four people who called the owner and said they would be there the next day with cash.
It is indeed difficult. We've decided on the 21, and considered 2 recent ones. The one in PA had too many options we didn't want and too many missing options from our build sheet.

The options in WA were much closer, but we plan to travel to Salem in August and 2 long trips this close together are too much.


We'll keep searching but expect to travel to Chilliwack in August.
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Old 05-19-2019, 11:39 AM   #37
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The new title arrived yesterday. So apparently Atlanta didn't have any problems with the manufacturer's certificate of origin. Patty and Selma entered the brand name as "Escaper" instead of Escape, claiming this was the only thing on their pull down menu on their computer screen. It does list the model as Escape 21 and the VIN number is correct. Perhaps maybe later on I'll go and correct the title to show Escape rather than Escaper. But I'm not too concerned about it.

But for the time being we have a certificate of title and tags. I guess the Escape people still have to officially import it into the United States. I guess in theory I could go up there and slap the tags on it and drive it across the border as it is already titled in America. But I'll let the Escape people handle all of that nonsense.

Hopefully Donald Trump won't slap a 25% tariff on imported travel trailers between now and our pick up date. They did remove the Tariff on steel and aluminum yesterday which is a good sign.
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Old 05-19-2019, 12:33 PM   #38
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South Carolina titled mine as an "ESCA". Close enough as long as they spell my name right. County seems to keep screwing that up.
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Old 05-31-2019, 01:24 PM   #39
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Computer Says No...

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Since you have written proof, I would not care what the computer "says" the law is printed and plain to see and they should abide by that. Ask them if you take them to court, what proof can they provide you are wrong, other than what the computer "says". Computers can not talk nor can they testify. Bureaucracy at it's best.....
That reminds me of this Tracy Ulmann bit:

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Old 05-31-2019, 02:06 PM   #40
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Exactly.......
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