Transfer switch priority

[TTMartin]

M_canada, Are you sure you trailer has a WFCO T-30 transfer switch and not a Go Power! TS-30 transfer switch?

I agree if Escape is using the WFCO T-30 transfer switch instead of the normal Go Power! TS-30 transfer switch it probably isn't wire correctly. The two transfer switches operate differently and if the WFCO is being used as a substitute this might not have been recognized.

I believe if they are using the WFCO T-30 transfer switch that you are correct the inverter should be wired to the 'shore power' input and the shore power should be wired to the 'generator' input. That way the relays are only energized when there is shore power, and not always anytime you have the inverter on creating a parasitic load.

If Escape is using the WFCO T-30 someone should contact them and point out the difference in operation between the two transfer switches.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

Are you sure you trailer has a WFCO T-30 transfer switch and not a Go Power! TS-30 transfer switch?

From the pictures in post #28 it is definitely the WFCO T-30 that is being used.

[M_canada]

Originally Posted by RangerMan

You should have taken my bet.😊

No worries, I’m not in it for the money

[Jim Bennett]

I installed the TC-30 and it works great. Stays on shore power when hooked up, and switches to the inverter when not hooked to the grid and the inverter turned on.

I like it. It seems to do just what I want.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

I believe if they are using the WFCO T-30 transfer switch that you are correct the inverter should be wired to the 'shore power' input and the shore power should be wired to the 'generator' input. That way the relays are only energized when there is shore power, and not always anytime you have the inverter on creating a parasitic load.

The one-watt load of operating the relay is small compared to the idle load of the inverter itself. With an inverter that doesn't have the "ECO" idle feature of Marc's Victron inverter, particularly in a trailer which is left on shore power for battery maintenance when stored, I believe that the configuration used by Escape is appropriate.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

The one-watt load of operating the relay is small compared to the idle load of the inverter itself. With an inverter that doesn't have the "ECO" idle feature of Marc's Victron inverter, particularly in a trailer which is left on shore power for battery maintenance when stored, I believe that the configuration used by Escape is appropriate.

The GoPower! TS-30 does not operate in the same fashion.



Didn't Escape use to use the GoPower! TS-30 transfer switch in the past?

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

I installed the TC-30 and it works great. Stays on shore power when hooked up, and switches to the inverter when not hooked to the grid and the inverter turned on.

I like it. It seems to do just what I want.

Do you mean the GoPower TS-30, or is there another model that has been used?

The WFCO T-30 would do the same if wired as Marc is proposing, reversed to the normal installation.

The Go Power TS-30 documentation (such as the user manual) uses the terms "default" instead of "pass through", and "dominant" instead of "priority"; as with the WFCO, the dominant (priority) source is opposite from the default (pass through) source. As with the WFCO, the dominant (priority) input has a delay, intended for a generator. It suggests wiring generators to the dominant (priority) input as does WFCO, but an inverter to the default (pass through) input, as Marc is proposing.

Both brands should probably use different labelling, identifying the inputs by whether they are pass-through (default) or priority (dominant), and whether or not they are delayed, rather than labelling anything as "shore power".

Judging from the diagram, my guess is that these two brands of transfer switch use identical relays. The Go Power diagrams showing relay contacts label the pass-through contacts as "NC" (normally closed) as logically expected; I'm pretty sure the WFCO diagram just has a typo (irrationally showing both inputs with NO contacts).

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Do you mean the GoPower TS-30, or is there another model that has been used?

The WFCO T-30 would do the same if wired as Marc is proposing, reversed to the normal installation.

In my rush in posting when I was needing to get some work done, I used the wrong product name. Your second paragraph is what I used.

I need to actually retire soon. [emoji16]

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

In my rush in posting when I was needing to get some work done, I used the wrong product name. Your second paragraph is what I used.

That's what I thought - just a typo.

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

I need to actually retire soon. [emoji16]

To do more projects? Otherwise there's the risk of boredom.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

To do more projects? Otherwise there's the risk of boredom.

There is no worry work me finding lots and lots to do. Between my workshop, trailer, friends, family, renovating my next house, working on the kids houses, and on and on..... I am not a fan of being idle. [emoji16]

[M_canada]

I spoke with WFCO today. They don’t see any problem swapping the inputs and he confirmed that they don’t perform any neutral to ground bonding in the transfer switch. Interestingly, he said the shore power input is not a normally closed input and that is why the diagram shows it as NO. He said there needs to be some voltage in order for the shore power input to be connected to the output. It works with my ECO mode, so if this is true it must not take much power and it must switch fast enough. A bit of testing and tear-down can easily verify this.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by M_canada

I spoke with WFCO today. They don’t see any problem swapping the inputs and he confirmed that they don’t perform any neutral to ground bonding in the transfer switch. Interestingly, he said the shore power input is not a normally closed input and that is why the diagram shows it as NO. He said there needs to be some voltage in order for the shore power input to be connected to the output. It works with my ECO mode, so if this is true it must not take much power and it must switch fast enough. A bit of testing and tear-down can easily verify this.

So both inputs (shore power and generator) are normally open?

[M_canada]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

So both inputs (shore power and generator) are normally open?

Yep, that is what I understood.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

So both inputs (shore power and generator) are normally open?

Originally Posted by M_canada

Yep, that is what I understood.

But, when you had your inverter connected on the generator input, it drew enough current to bump it out of ECO mode, but, when you switched your inverter to the shore power input it doesn't bump it out of ECO mode?

[M_canada]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

But, when you had your inverter connected on the generator input, it drew enough current to bump it out of ECO mode, but, when you switched your inverter to the shore power input it doesn't bump it out of ECO mode?

Sorry, I must have said something wrong or confusing. The inverter ECO mode does not work when the inverter is connected to the generator input. It works fine when I connected it to the shore power input on the transfer switch.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

But, when you had your inverter connected on the generator input, it drew enough current to bump it out of ECO mode, but, when you switched your inverter to the shore power input it doesn't bump it out of ECO mode?

Originally Posted by M_canada

Sorry, I must have said something wrong or confusing. The inverter ECO mode does not work when the inverter is connected to the generator input. It works fine when I connected it to the shore power input on the transfer switch.

That's what I understood and was trying to say.

Which if they are both normally open how could that be?

[M_canada]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

That's what I understood and was trying to say.

Which if they are both normally open how could that be?

With no power to either input: both inputs are open

With shore power: the shore power are closed, the generator are open

With generator power: the shore power are open and the generator are closed

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by M_canada

Interestingly, he said the shore power input is not a normally closed input and that is why the diagram shows it as NO. He said there needs to be some voltage in order for the shore power input to be connected to the output.
...
A bit of testing and tear-down can easily verify this.

I can believe that's what he said, but it seems wildly unlikely. Yes, it's easy to test - just put an ohmmeter across each set of contacts, with no AC power present anywhere.

Originally Posted by TTMartin

So both inputs (shore power and generator) are normally open?

Originally Posted by TTMartin

Which if they are both normally open how could that be?

It can't be, with only a single coil in the relay.

Originally Posted by M_canada

With no power to either input: both inputs are open

With shore power: the shore power are closed, the generator are open

With generator power: the shore power are open and the generator are closed

For this to happen, the relay would need to have two coils, pulling the contacts in opposite directions. Yeah, right... Also, this statement in the WF-T Series brochure would then in be incorrect:

• Shore power is always available (Pass-Through) without having to energize the relays.

[M_canada]

I just used an ohmmeter and determined the transfer shore power input and the transfer switch output are connected, even when there is no voltage present, so it’s a normally closed input. This contradicts the diagram on it and the comments from WFCO support. Oh well, it works out better for me like that.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by M_canada

I just used an ohmmeter and determined the transfer shore power input and the transfer switch output are connected, even when there is no voltage present, so it’s a normally closed input. This contradicts the diagram on it and the comments from WFCO support. Oh well, it works out better for me like that.

It also makes sense, unlike the diagram and the comments from the WFCO support person.