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Old 04-22-2014, 08:03 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
Donna,
You maybe confusing tow capacity versus carrying capacity. They are called "1/2" ton
trucks for a reason, they were originally designed to carry 1000 lbs. My Ram hemi can pull close to 12,000 pounds, but it can only carry about 1/10 of that amount. Check your specs, with a heavy pin weight, 4 passengers, fuel, you maybe also approaching the limit.
I understand. I don't think I've ever had four people in my truck at one time. I'm a single traveler, so that means more weight available for "beverages"
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Old 04-22-2014, 08:17 AM   #22
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Simson's Trailer Weights in the Real World has three Escape 5.0 (SA) listed. Pin weights are 680, 720, and 780 pounds.
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Old 04-22-2014, 08:27 AM   #23
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Simson's Trailer Weights in the Real World has three Escape 5.0 (SA) listed. Pin weights are 680, 720, and 780 pounds.
Hi: onetim... I think we were the heaviest probably due in part to the memory foam mattress and loading 0 gravity chairs on the bed. I'm hoping the dual axle may redistribute some of the weights...but I could be dreaming too!!!Alf
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Old 04-22-2014, 08:30 AM   #24
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Is there an idea weight percentage to be put on the hitch? I know a bumper pull is 8-13%, give or take, but what is it for a 5.0?

Alf, it might be time to buy that scooter to mount on the rear.
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Old 04-22-2014, 08:35 AM   #25
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Well, After much debate,

We have decided to forgo our July 21' production date. Instead we will wait till 2015 and get the 5.0 TA!!!!!!!!!!!!1

"Family Affair" Yes I like Sly and the Family Stone, is going to be used by me and my wife, and for as many trips as she can handle, Mom, who started me camping herself.

The layout just seemed to be a better fit for it all, and I am really interested in the 5th wheel hitch setup for stability, ease of connection, and turning ability. So our wait will be longer, but I feel in the long run it will be worth it.

Now, some questions on Hitches and weights.

1. It seems that with the pin weight, weight of hitch itself, and us, we are getting close to the payload of my Toyota Tundra....Seems wierd, but maybe I am miscalculating.

2. with the rails in the bed, does anyone find them annoying if you are a carpenter? I was just going to build a little platform over them

3. The above could be mitigated, by getting a Ford F250. Plenty of payload, towing, and the 5th wheel hitch rails are below the bed. You just hook in a nifty setup and you have your hitch

Thoughts? I love my Toyota Tundra and the reliability but the tow mirrors and those below bed rails for the hitch are appealing.

Donna D. and Alf, I will be asking you lots of questions.

Alf, you can have my site at the fall Escape rally...I wont have a rig.....

Thanks again

Don and Brenda
Hi: Don W... Thanks for the site. You could get lucky and snag a 2014 cancellation. Keep your fingers and toes crossed. Alf
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Old 04-22-2014, 08:42 AM   #26
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Quote:
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Is there an idea weight percentage to be put on the hitch? I know a bumper pull is 8-13%, give or take, but what is it for a 5.0?

Alf, it might be time to buy that scooter to mount on the rear.
Hi: Jim Bennett... 15-25% No scooter for me. Pedal bike? I need the exercise!!! Alf
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Old 04-22-2014, 09:12 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onetim View Post
Simson's Trailer Weights in the Real World has three Escape 5.0 (SA) listed. Pin weights are 680, 720, and 780 pounds.
Ours was the 720 pound pin weight:

We went to a 3 weight scale and got 2 weights..one with the tow and trailer and one with just the tow vehicle.
All 3 tanks were empty as was the hot water heater. No food or clothes in the trailer. We estimate maybe 100 lbs of gear in the trailer (including a microwave & the screen room)

The weights were as follows:
Trailer Axle: 2620
Pin Weight: 720
Total Trailer Weight: 3340
Frontier Total Weight (w/o trailer or people): 4860

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Old 04-22-2014, 05:09 PM   #28
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2. with the rails in the bed, does anyone find them annoying if you are a carpenter? I was just going to build a little platform over them
There are two solutions for this:
  1. As already mentioned, mats, plywood sheets, lumber, or whatever can be used to build up the rest of the area at least flush with the rails.
  2. One of the other fifth-wheel hitch mounting systems can be used, such as the Reese "puck" system (also supported by B&W), or the ones which sit in the box and anchor to an in-floor ball mount (B&W Turnover ball, or the Andersen system).
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Old 04-22-2014, 05:14 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Don W. View Post
1. It seems that with the pin weight, weight of hitch itself, and us, we are getting close to the payload of my Toyota Tundra....Seems wierd, but maybe I am miscalculating
Not likely an error (and Don's later post confirms this) - this is a commonly reported problem from people who actually look at the truck GVWR or payload rating (others are blissfully ignorant).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
I would talk to your dealer, and see if a factory tow package adds and capacity as well, I know with Ford it does.
Tow packages are usually focused on the drivetrain, so they add only to GCWR, not to GVWR. Sometimes they include rear suspension enhancements, but that would typically add only to Rear GAWR, and the GVWR of current trucks is typically not limited by the axle capacities... Ford may be an exception, but I have not waded through the current F-150 configuration data to check.
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Old 04-22-2014, 05:30 PM   #30
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On the Fords F-150, adding the Heavy Duty Payload Package with the 3.5L EcoBoost V6 (and their other engines too) increases the payload, towing capacity and the GVWR substantially. That is, unless my reading skills are slipping, this aging thing does do strange things.

http://www.ford.ca/trucks/f150/specifications/

Here is a link for the old fashioned number system.

http://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/specifications/
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Old 04-22-2014, 06:31 PM   #31
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Those numbers are for a regular cab 4x2 with heavy duty and trailer packages and they then drop about 400 lbs for crew cab and another 300 lbs for super crew and more for 4x4 and so on. The 4x4 super crew is down to about 2300 lbs. with the 2 packages.
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Old 04-22-2014, 06:57 PM   #32
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On the Fords F-150, adding the Heavy Duty Payload Package with the 3.5L EcoBoost V6 (and their other engines too) increases the payload, towing capacity and the GVWR substantially. That is, unless my reading skills are slipping, this aging thing does do strange things.
Looks right... but it's a Heavy Duty Payload Package, not just a towing package. It looks like this package would be a good choice for a 5.0 owner, due to the pin weight.

The current Tundra specs page doesn't mention a payload package or a higher payload number qualified by a "with optional equipment" comment, and I didn't see a payload package offered in a quick run through the website build options, so I suspect that Toyota doesn't offer one on this vehicle. Point goes to Ford on this round
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Old 04-22-2014, 07:03 PM   #33
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Yeppers Bob. I could tow nearly any trailer currently built.
Well, the vast majority of tag-style travel trailers fit under the 5126 kg / 11,300 lb rating of a bare stripper F-150 (real trucks weigh more and thus tow less), but among fifth-wheels that's not a big trailer; park models are bigger, too (the last one I looked at had a 15,000 lb GVWR). That Ford spec page for the F-150 doesn't even list fifth-wheel capacity - they seem to assume you'll use a Super Duty truck (F-250 to F-450) for fifth-wheels. Not relevant to Escapes...
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Old 04-22-2014, 07:13 PM   #34
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When I bought mine the dealership had never heard of the HD package, I had to convince them it existed and factory ordering was the only way to get it. At the time (2012) HD was only available in Ecoboost supercab w/longbed or the Ecoboost regular cab w/longbed combos. It also required the heavy tow package and specific transmission.

Makes sense that you get the most payload, and the highest mpg, with the lightest weight config.
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Old 04-22-2014, 07:51 PM   #35
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Great information. I am anxious to see the weights from ETI when the first is completed. But I am thinking of trading up trucks. Pulling I guess is not the issue, cargo... What you put in the truck and your capacity are the big things in my mind. So Yes, CPAharley.....I am supporting the economy. That is how it rolls.

Toyota has been sending me offer letter for my current truck, only 2 years old, perfect maintenance, and only 21,000 miles has then drooling. But I like the extra piece of mind and insurance a higher payload would afford me and my passengers. That's just me.

Some of the weights mentioned above said there was no water, but wouldn't that lessen the pin weight by putting pressure on the back of that single axle? Can't wait to see what the new Tandem will do.

If anyone has any preference of Heavy Duty Trucks, What I want is reliability, info would be appreciated.

Thanks again for all this great information and discussion

Don
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Old 04-22-2014, 07:54 PM   #36
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Both Toyota and Nissan are coming out with diesel models next year.
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Old 04-22-2014, 08:44 PM   #37
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Some of the weights mentioned above said there was no water, but wouldn't that lessen the pin weight by putting pressure on the back of that single axle?
Don
Yes, it should. We have not done that and weighed it to see. However, we now try to minimize any weight forward of the axle and maximize weight at or behind the axle of the trailer.
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Old 04-22-2014, 08:56 PM   #38
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Makes sense that you get the most payload, and the highest mpg, with the lightest weight config.
The ultimate ideal. Tough to get everything, but definitely something to strive for.
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Old 04-22-2014, 09:18 PM   #39
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Some of the weights mentioned above said there was no water, but wouldn't that lessen the pin weight by putting pressure on the back of that single axle? Can't wait to see what the new Tandem will do.
The tandem-axle 5.0 will behave similarly - the water tank is presumably still behind the axle, and the number of axles doesn't change the fact that the weight distribution will be changed by adding water.

On the other hand, the fresh water tank is likely centred less than a metre (a yard) behind the axle centre, while the pin is probably five times that distance ahead of the axle. If the ratio of those distances is five (for example), then 30 US gallons (240 pounds) of water would only lever 48 pounds off of the pin... and when all that water goes to the waste tanks, more than that 48 pounds would be added to the dry pin weight. If you tow with fresh water (because you don't have water where you are going), it seems likely that you later tow with waste water (because you didn't have a dump site where you stayed).

The 5.0 TA is largely derived from the 21', but all Escape trailers that I've seen (and I've looked under at least one example of every model but the 5.0TA) have the fresh water tank under the floor behind the axle(s), and the grey wastewater tank ahead of the axle(s). In tandem-axle models that means fresh behind the trailing axle and waste ahead of the leading axle, with no tank between the axles. Black tanks are where the toilet is, which is always forward of the axle (and above the floor).
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Old 04-23-2014, 12:31 PM   #40
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Those numbers are for a regular cab 4x2 with heavy duty and trailer packages and they then drop about 400 lbs for crew cab and another 300 lbs for super crew and more for 4x4 and so on. The 4x4 super crew is down to about 2300 lbs. with the 2 packages.
... and Donna says her 4X4 XLT SuperCab 6.5' box (145" wheelbase) F-150 has a 7200 pound GVWR, so it does not have the high-payload package, and thus according to Ford specs has 1660 pounds of payload capacity... not so wildly different from the Toyota.
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