2023 Pricing

[Deva]

Originally Posted by JeffreyG

Strictly as described, this is bad business sense. Demand is hot right now, but you are forecasting it will collapse within two years.


A mold is expensive and has a long lead time.


So it is not good business sense to invest a lot of capital in a long lead time tool for demand you have today, that you think will evaporate in the future. Then you will have too much capacity.

You certainly may be right, but business has been hot for 2 years now. Even if they had initially gotten a second 5.0 mold in that first year, it would have been well worth their money since so many additional units would have been available in a very hot market. I’m unsure about mold lead time, so I can’t comment on that, but hard to believe it would more than several months to a year. If we look ahead to the folks who are planning on a picking up a 5.0 in two years, many of them will back out if the economy does tank, as so many are predicting. Those are all units that could have been sold much earlier if they had a second mold. Nothing is written in stone and the predicted collapse may never happen or be mild enough that people continue to buy RV’s. No one really knows and everyone has an opinion, for sure.

[MrLynn]

Originally Posted by Deva

I’ve certainly thought about that, and also purchasing a used unit is an option. I’m a full timer and travel for work and will be doing that for the foreseeable future. But, if I’m going to spend this kind of money and live in it full time, I want what I want (ie I don’t want other peoples choices in energy production, decor, etc.) and I don’t like the fact the transition of ownership voids any warranty, such as it does with Escape. The 5.0 was plan B for me.Since Escape trailers aren’t the value they once were, I’ll just go with Plan A because the difference in price between Plan A and Plan B is now negligible.

What was Plan A? A truck camper? Not as much room as an Escape 5.0, and less storage I think.

You say you don't want a used 5.0, but the Escape Pre-Owned page has a 2022 model (practically new) on sale right now for US$51,500. I'd say grab it, and put your name (deposit) back in the Escape queue, and in two years, sell the one from this year if you want to switch. Problem solved!

https://escapetrailer.com/pre-owned-trailer-listings/

[Deva]

Originally Posted by MrLynn

What was Plan A? A truck camper? Not as much room as an Escape 5.0, and less storage I think.

You say you don't want a used 5.0, but the Escape Pre-Owned page has a 2022 model (practically new) on sale right now for US$51,500. I'd say grab it, and put your name (deposit) back in the Escape queue, and in two years, sell the one from this year if you want to switch. Problem solved!

https://escapetrailer.com/pre-owned-trailer-listings/

Yes, I saw that one. Believe me, I’m keeping my eyes peeled. And yes my Plan A was/is a truck and camper because of the way I travel. I’ve been in a van for 5 years, except some summers when I’ve had to get housing due to heat and the fact I travel with a dog. My van is very simple and small. I like small spaces as long as I can organize stuff to make everything functional and accessible. A travel trailer would change the way I travel but I was willing to do that because I think the 5.0 is a nice little rig and as someone who’s never towed before, it seemed quite doable to me, more so than a bumper pull. I like the 5.0 floor plan, which actually resembles a truck camper layout and the lay out I have in my van. But, I’ve gotten a very good deal on a truck specked for my needs at the same cost as a higher end/heavily optioned 1/2 ton truck. The camper is a Northern Lite, so still fiberglass but less than the cost of a 5.0. Everyone has different needs and driving/camping styles. Who’s to say I don’t change it up again 5-10 years down the road? You never know…

[Mike G]

Originally Posted by Deva

You certainly may be right, but business has been hot for 2 years now. Even if they had initially gotten a second 5.0 mold in that first year, it would have been well worth their money since so many additional units would have been available in a very hot market. I’m unsure about mold lead time, so I can’t comment on that, but hard to believe it would more than several months to a year. If we look ahead to the folks who are planning on a picking up a 5.0 in two years, many of them will back out if the economy does tank, as so many are predicting. Those are all units that could have been sold much earlier if they had a second mold. Nothing is written in stone and the predicted collapse may never happen or be mild enough that people continue to buy RV’s. No one really knows and everyone has an opinion, for sure.

It isn't just the mold. It's also, do they have the extra factory space, the extra workers, the extra interior components, and so on.

[Deva]

Originally Posted by Mike G

It isn't just the mold. It's also, do they have the extra factory space, the extra workers, the extra interior components, and so on.

Oh, I get that! It’s the same everywhere. Medicine has been crying “nursing shortage” for decades. There is no nursing shortage. What there IS is a shortage of CEO’s and higher management willing to pay for adequate staffing. That’s the business model everyone is following now. People won’t work crap jobs for crap pay anymore. Everyone is sick of it. If you pay people what they’re worth, if you treat them with respect and courtesy, there would be no “worker shortage.” But that means the bigwigs make less of a profit. Oh wait, that’s not the way business works. What business is all about right is maximizing profit. Next time you’re hospitalized and no one answers your call light for 20 minutes, or you end up being sent to a higher level of care because you were poorly assessed, just remember, it’s a “worker shortage.” Maybe you should phone the CEO to see if he or she will come in and take care of you? It’s all the same no matter the business.

[MrLynn]

Originally Posted by Deva

. . . The camper is a Northern Lite, so still fiberglass but less than the cost of a 5.0. Everyone has different needs and driving/camping styles. Who’s to say I don’t change it up again 5-10 years down the road? You never know…

Just looked at the Northern Lite website. They are very impressive-looking campers, inside and out, much more so than two North Star truck campers we got a look at in a MA State Forest campsite this week—and the Northern Lites are molded fiberglass, too!

BTW, if fiberglass is your priority, as it is mine, and you've got plenty of moolah (which we don't) take a look at the Couch House Class B campers, from a family-owned business in Florida: https://www.coachhouserv.com

Their 'Platinum' models are molded fiberglass on Ford or Mercedes chassis, but I expect they are running many months behind, too. Like Escape, they sell factory-direct.

[Deva]

I’m familiar with Coach House. I don’t have a lot of moola and they were out of my price range before the world went crazy, so I surely can’t imagine things have gotten better cost wise now. I have scrimped and saved for a long time. Like one poster stated, if Escape doesn’t do it for you anymore, move on. And that’s exactly what I’m doing. And I’m not even regretting it because I see the decreasing quality of the campers being posted here. It’s all good. The camper I’m wanting has a 6 year warranty, which speaks volumes. I do like learning about fiberglass anything and I’ve learned a lot from people on this forum who run into trouble of one kind or another with their trailer, and the wealth of general RV knowledge here is great. I read almost anything about “fixing” stuff because I know that’s my weak point. Some of the stuff is over my head, skill wise, so I just have to hope that stuff doesn’t happen to me!

[brroberts]

NorthernLite and Bigfoot both make nice pickup campers. We loved our Bigfoot when we lived in Alaska. The same investment group owns NorthernLite and Escape.

[Rossue]

KV also owns Off Grid Trailer.

[rubicon327]

Can’t help but wonder if part of the price increases is to cover legal costs and settlements for some of those injured by the exploding Suburban SDS2 stove. IMO there was serious negligence in how it was handled with owners left knowingly in danger without a peep from Escape. This is something we likely wouldn’t hear about but it hits the company balance sheet.

[Rossue]

Good guess & wouldn't doubt that. Ultimately Private Equity are a bunch of soulless scumbags

[Mike G]

Escape trailers still "do it" for me, but it'll have to be a pre-loved unit that can still handle another 20 years of lovin'. I expect my next trailer will be my last trailer, and I think Escapes are the ones that can do it. I'm simply priced out of the new ones.

[cpaharley2008]

Mike,
You have been teeter/totaling for close to 10 years on purchasing an Escape, buy one and enjoy it, you will not regret it.....

[MrLynn]

Originally Posted by Rossue

Good guess & wouldn't doubt that. Ultimately Private Equity are a bunch of soulless scumbags

You paint with a broad brush. Do you know the principals of KV Capital? I certainly don't, nor do I know anything about their relationships with the companies they own or have owned (two of the four listed their website says have been sold):

https://www.kvcapital.ca

[WillyB]

Originally Posted by Mike G

Escape trailers still "do it" for me, but it'll have to be a pre-loved unit that can still handle another 20 years of lovin'. I expect my next trailer will be my last trailer, and I think Escapes are the ones that can do it. I'm simply priced out of the new ones.

There are six inventory trailers available on Escape's website. 5.0, 21, 19 and 17. Lots of price points.

[MrLynn]

Originally Posted by WillyB

There are six inventory trailers available on Escape's website. 5.0, 21, 19 and 17. Lots of price points.

'Inventory' trailers are a lottery crapshoot for customers with existing deposits.

But there are several 'Pre-owned' trailers there, including the 2012 E19 in Delaware, advertised on this forum.

[Mike G]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Mike,
You have been teeter/totaling for close to 10 years on purchasing an Escape, buy one and enjoy it, you will not regret it.....

Don't misunderstand, I have not been wavering on the decision. 10 years ago I decided I wanted an Escape. However, two factors have stood in the way: finances and my dear wife (I promised her I'd wait until I was at least close to retirement, because she sees the trailer as my retirement toy... she no longer will camp, btw). I thought I'd buy when the SUV got paid off, but Covid hit and knocked down my income. Then a couple months ago I had to switch jobs to a new straight-commission sales position for a brand new service (with very little data to know how it would be received in the marketplace), right when ETI notified me about submitting a build sheet. Now I have a bit of a track record to know how that's going, and it's not enough to buy a new unit (which are priced well above 1 year's income for me) but I'm bound and determined to find a used one before they all go north of $100k!!! (Ok, that was a bit of hyperbole.)

[oldwave]

I won’t berate Escape for making money in a market that has been strong for them. Those of us who bought back in original pre corporate ownership had the luxury of an outstanding value, especially the pricing being in Canadian dollars. They are very good trailers, but now not the outstanding value they once were. For a lot of people they are now unaffordable, which is unfortunate given what else is out there. We could afford a 23, but it’s been too long of a wait.

[brroberts]

We visited the Escape factory in 2012 and Reece personally showed us around while working on things with a cordless drill in hand. For a variety of reasons, we did not put a deposit down until 2020. Life is a wonderful thing, but sometimes you don’t need a new trailer yet.

[Centex]

Originally Posted by oldwave

I won’t berate Escape for making money in a market that has been strong for them. Those of us who bought back in original pre corporate ownership had the luxury of an outstanding value, especially the pricing being in Canadian dollars. They are very good trailers, but now not the outstanding value they once were. For a lot of people they are now unaffordable, which is unfortunate given what else is out there. We could afford a 23, but it’s been too long of a wait.

Well said, IMO.

I'll offer that even we who ordered as late as 2020 and then took delivery well into calendar year 2021 feel we got a very good value after a tolerable wait, KV ownership and US pricing notwithstanding.

As for the rest, it's hard to argue with your comments, and yeah that's unfortunate.

I'm happy that you found a trailer that works for you in the BigFoot, I'm sure it will return many miles of smiles, so unreserved congratulations to you!

(and best wishes to everyone still searching for a trailer to meet their wants and needs )