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Old 06-17-2016, 02:55 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by emers382 View Post
Hey Iowa Dave, looks like there's an Ollie only half hour or so from you!
There's hundreds of Olivers in Iowa, probably thousands. My favorite is the row crop 77 for a work tractor and I am also very fond of the 550's as a utility rig. Had a nice one on one of the golf courses. Ohhh, you're talking about Oliver campers. Yup, North Liberty is where my daughter lives. I've been there twice this week. Maybe I'll see the white Oliver some day.
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Old 06-17-2016, 03:26 PM   #42
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I replaced my coupler with a Bulldog A-frame coupler on my Bigfoot and, as I remember, it only added 3-4 inches in length. (Amazon, E-trailer etc. have them for about $50.)
The bulldog hitch Oliver uses is not 50.00 they use a 7000lb cast iron hitch . They can run a little over 300.00 .And they using one that telescopes out . Pat
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Old 06-17-2016, 03:34 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Rossue View Post
Am struck by how far back the Oliver seems from the tow vehicle. Is that an illusion Myron or is there some kind of extension piece?
The stock Oliver tongue is long.

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Originally Posted by MyronL View Post
Ross, picture was shot with a 20mm wide angle lens but doubt that made a significant difference. Looks like an extended stinger all right. Only Don would know.
When the Oliver Legacy was new, one of the noticeable features was that the coupler was mounted on the end of a steel tube which slides into the aluminum frame. This straight tongue extension could be extended (for more stability and less tongue weight) or retracted to be more compact (but still longer than a coupler mounted directly on the end of the A-frame). It looks in some photos like this is still the design, but I don't see a mention of it on the Oliver website.

In the photo of Don's Oliver, it looks like that straight tongue section might be fixed, and it has a cargo basket on top of it... entirely additional to the length that it would have with just a normal A-frame.

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When we checked out the Oliver , the reason is the hitch on the trailer is called a bull dog . It is a commercial hitch . The strongest hitch I ever saw . It is longer then our hitches . I think that is reason for being back so far . Pat
There are several styles of Bulldog coupler, but the "Collar-Lok" forged coupler is the unique one usually associated with the brand. An A-frame Bulldog Collar-Lok is a bit longer than other styles, but that's a small part of the length - at most several centimetres (a couple of inches).

The Bulldog Collar-Lok isn't any more "commercial" or higher-capacity than other designs, but it is relatively expensive and has a reputation of durability. I've only tried it on a trailer in on a dealer's lot - latching and unlatching but not actually putting it on a ball - and I can see how it is secure but I found it awkward to use. I have attached a clip from an eTrailer web page comparing the Collar-Lok (in A-frame like an Escape, not straight tongue like an Oliver) to the yoke style used by Escape.
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File Type: jpg couplers.JPG (50.4 KB, 34 views)
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Old 06-17-2016, 03:40 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
The stock Oliver tongue is long.


When the Oliver Legacy was new, one of the noticeable features was that the coupler was mounted on the end of a steel tube which slides into the aluminum frame. This straight tongue extension could be extended (for more stability and less tongue weight) or retracted to be more compact (but still longer than a coupler mounted directly on the end of the A-frame). It looks in some photos like this is still the design, but I don't see a mention of it on the Oliver website.

In the photo of Don's Oliver, it looks like that straight tongue section might be fixed, and it has a cargo basket on top of it... entirely additional to the length that it would have with just a normal A-frame.


There are several styles of Bulldog coupler, but the "Collar-Lok" forged coupler is the unique one usually associated with the brand. An A-frame Bulldog Collar-Lok is a bit longer than other styles, but that's a small part of the length - at most several centimetres (a couple of inches).

The Bulldog Collar-Lok isn't any more "commercial" or higher-capacity than other designs, but it is relatively expensive and has a reputation of durability. I've only tried it on a trailer in on a dealer's lot - latching and unlatching but not actually putting it on a ball - and I can see how it is secure but I found it awkward to use. I have attached a clip from an eTrailer web page comparing the Collar-Lok (in A-frame like an Escape, not straight tongue like an Oliver) to the yoke style used by Escape.
If you like I have the latest information I can scan . It is commercial rated . Every item on their trailers are top notch . It still telescopes out . Pat
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Old 06-17-2016, 03:48 PM   #45
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The bulldog hitch Oliver uses is not 50.00 they use a 7000lb cast iron hitch . They can run a little over 300.00 .And they using one that telescopes out . Pat
Most 2" Bulldog Collar-Lok models have the same 5000 pound capacity as every other brands; Oliver might be using a 7000-pound model, and the 2-5/16" size has a higher capacity... again like other brands. It is forged, not cast - the cast Bulldog couplers are more conventional in design; forged seems like a better idea to me in this application. It's worth about US$80 at eTrailer.

Pat posted while I was building my previous post, and we are referring to the same telescoping feature (which is part of the trailer frame, not a feature of the Bulldog coupler).
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Old 06-17-2016, 03:55 PM   #46
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Most 2" Bulldog Collar-Lok models have the same 5000 pound capacity as every other brands; Oliver might be using a 7000-pound model, and the 2-5/16" size has a higher capacity... again like other brands. It is forged, not cast - the cast Bulldog couplers are more conventional in design; forged seems like a better idea to me in this application. It's worth about US$80 at eTrailer.

Pat posted while I was building my previous post, and we are referring to the same telescoping feature (which is part of the trailer frame, not a feature of the Bulldog coupler).
It is cast iron . That 's funny when you go to e-Trailer nothing for 80 . 200-300 + range . The hitch it self telescopes out . Pat
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Old 06-17-2016, 03:55 PM   #47
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Why did you need to replace the coupler?
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Old 06-17-2016, 03:56 PM   #48
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If you like I have the latest information I can scan . It is commercial rated . Every item on their trailers are top notch . It still telescopes out . Pat
Thanks, but that's okay - the brochures are available for download but I only looked at the web page content.
I don't know what "commercial rated" might mean - the only towing equipment standards are the VESC and SAE standards, which don't make a commercial versus recreational distinction.
Thanks for the confirmation on the telescoping feature.

Based on my experience, the yoke-type coupler is my favourite for most purposes and is as secure as any design... and that's what Escape has been using for quite a while. For other specific needs, the Lippert Quick-Bite would be a good way to allow back-in coupling like a fifth-wheel hitch, and either the Quick-Bite or the Bulldog Collar-Lok would probably be more tolerant of the continual force placed on the back of the coupler by an Andersen No-Sway WD system than others.
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Old 06-17-2016, 03:57 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
The stock Oliver tongue is long.


When the Oliver Legacy was new, one of the noticeable features was that the coupler was mounted on the end of a steel tube which slides into the aluminum frame. This straight tongue extension could be extended (for more stability and less tongue weight) or retracted to be more compact (but still longer than a coupler mounted directly on the end of the A-frame). It looks in some photos like this is still the design, but I don't see a mention of it on the Oliver website.

In the photo of Don's Oliver, it looks like that straight tongue section might be fixed, and it has a cargo basket on top of it... entirely additional to the length that it would have with just a normal A-frame.


There are several styles of Bulldog coupler, but the "Collar-Lok" forged coupler is the unique one usually associated with the brand. An A-frame Bulldog Collar-Lok is a bit longer than other styles, but that's a small part of the length - at most several centimetres (a couple of inches).

The Bulldog Collar-Lok isn't any more "commercial" or higher-capacity than other designs, but it is relatively expensive and has a reputation of durability. I've only tried it on a trailer in on a dealer's lot - latching and unlatching but not actually putting it on a ball - and I can see how it is secure but I found it awkward to use. I have attached a clip from an eTrailer web page comparing the Collar-Lok (in A-frame like an Escape, not straight tongue like an Oliver) to the yoke style used by Escape.
The picture you posted is not what I saw or the information in latest brochure . Pat
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Old 06-17-2016, 03:58 PM   #50
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Why did you need to replace the coupler?
Some of us are interested in the alternatives for couplers and have used various types, but has anyone actually replaced the coupler on their Escape? The Oliver trailers come with that Bulldog Collar-Lok from the factory.
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Old 06-17-2016, 04:01 PM   #51
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Some of us are interested in the alternatives for couplers and have used various types, but has anyone actually replaced the coupler on their Escape?
Never occurred to me.
Still doesn't.
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Old 06-17-2016, 04:12 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
...........
Based on my experience, the yoke-type coupler is my favourite for most purposes and is as secure as any design... and that's what Escape has been using for quite a while. For other specific needs, the Lippert Quick-Bite would be a good way to allow back-in coupling like a fifth-wheel hitch, and either the Quick-Bite or the Bulldog Collar-Lok would probably be more tolerant of the continual force placed on the back of the coupler by an Andersen No-Sway WD system than others.
When we left ETI after some service last month I was surprised to see the hitch latch in the open position with the retaining clip still in after we stopped to camp. At first I thought I had not hitched up right, bit later on in the trip I jacked the tongue up some while still hitched as you would do when installing/removing a WDH. We were just going to spend the night and leave and did so to level up the front some. Next morning I saw the same thing again with the coupler latch in up position with the pin in it.

Do I have some wear issue going on?
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Old 06-17-2016, 04:12 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
Some of us are interested in the alternatives for couplers and have used various types, but has anyone actually replaced the coupler on their Escape? The Oliver trailers come with that Bulldog Collar-Lok from the factory.
we are discussing what Oliver uses for hitches not changing out your hitch . . I have one picture of the second Oliver to be made #2 , . Do not know if this is the same as what they use now . What they use now is a 7000 lb cast iron telescoping hitch now . Pat
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Old 06-17-2016, 04:22 PM   #54
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When we left ETI after some service last month I was surprised to see the hitch latch in the open position with the retaining clip still in after we stopped to camp. At first I thought I had not hitched up right, bit later on in the trip I jacked the tongue up some while still hitched as you would do when installing/removing a WDH. We were just going to spend the night and leave and did so to level up the front some. Next morning I saw the same thing again with the coupler latch in up position with the pin in it.

Do I have some wear issue going on?
That's strange Ross. There's no way the latch should be in the up position when you're coupled. The pin also prevents the latch from being lifted.
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Old 06-17-2016, 04:30 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Patandlinda View Post
It is commercial rated . Every item on their trailers are top notch .
The Legacy Elite II brochure says
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7,000-lb. Bulldog Hitch, commonly found on commercial and farm-grade equipment, provides a superior connection to your tow vehicle
The Legacy Elite (smaller model) brochure specifies 5,000 pound capacity.
First, this is a coupler rather than a hitch, and I don't question that it is most commonly found on heavily used trailers; so are many other brands and styles of coupler. They just say it is used on commercial trailers, not that there is a difference in some rating system between commercial and non-commercial couplers.

I don't doubt that Oliver uses good hardware. In some cases it's not better for the purpose - just heavier. If the buyer wants this coupler (for instance) that's fine, but for those who would get no benefit from it, or even find it inferior in operation to another style, they're just stuck with extra cost and weight for no reason. It's good that there is a choice in trailers, so people can buy what suits them; there is certainly no "best" in this choice, just "best for the specific customer".

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The picture you posted is not what I saw or the information in latest brochure . Pat
The brochures consistently say "cast iron", rather than forged. This could be wrong (it also says "hitch" rather than coupler), but it could also indicate that they are currently using the Bulldog cast design, which is more conventional than the Collar-Lok; the Collar-Lok is visible on Don's trailer and in the photos in the Legacy Elite II brochure and in the photo which Pat posted.

I posted a photo of the A-frame versions of the Bulldog Collar-Lok and a typical yoke-type. Oliver uses the straight-tongue version of the same Collar-Lok coupler, because the end of their tongue is straight. Same coupler, same capacity, same everything except the mounting bracket. You can get straight-tongue yoke-style couplers as well; I'll attach a corresponding image of the straight-tongue version to this post (still in Collar-Lok rather than cast).
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File Type: jpg StraightCollar-Lok.JPG (22.8 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg StraightYoke.JPG (22.4 KB, 15 views)
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Old 06-17-2016, 04:35 PM   #56
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I have one picture of the second Oliver to be made #2 , . Do not know if this is the same as what they use now . What they use now is a 7000 lb cast iron telescoping hitch now . Pat
That's Bulldog's forged Collar-Lok... the same as you can see on Don's trailer and in the Legacy Elite II brochure.
The telescoping feature is not part of the coupler - the coupler is mounted to a steel tube, which telescopes into the frame.
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Old 06-17-2016, 04:44 PM   #57
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When we left ETI after some service last month I was surprised to see the hitch latch in the open position with the retaining clip still in after we stopped to camp. At first I thought I had not hitched up right, bit later on in the trip I jacked the tongue up some while still hitched as you would do when installing/removing a WDH. We were just going to spend the night and leave and did so to level up the front some. Next morning I saw the same thing again with the coupler latch in up position with the pin in it.

Do I have some wear issue going on?
The yoke design doesn't even need the latching lever to stay latched, as force on the moving jaw pulls the yoke more tightly engaged, rather than flipping it up... but I agree with Robert that the pin prevents the lever from being lifted, and in turn the lever keep the yoke from lifting (which allows the jaw to slide back and release the ball).

This can be confusing because it is not always clear what "latch" refers to. The yoke (which wraps around the front and is pinned to the jaw inside) does the latching; in yoke-style couplers there is usually also a lever of some sort on top keep the yoke from moving while in use. Finally, most newer yoke-type couplers (Escape has used more than one brand) have a place to put a pin though the lever... although that's not needed, and my old Atwood doesn't have this feature.

It's hard to imagine what wear would cause this issue, but the situation isn't entirely clear to me. Most of us don't automatically take a photo of everything (although some of the Facebook / Instagram / Twitter addicts can't even eat a burger without taking and posting a photo of it )... but do you have a picture of the coupler in this latch-up but still coupled state?
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Old 06-17-2016, 04:48 PM   #58
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Brian, I don't have a picture. Have been searching this subject and it looks like the coupler on my 21 is an Atwood AT80072.

What got me wondering was your comment about the Andersen putting pressure on the back of the yoke. The rim going around the front of the coupler is slightly curled upward and I did show that to Reace who didn't think it was an issue.
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Old 06-17-2016, 05:24 PM   #59
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It's worth about US$80 at eTrailer.
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Originally Posted by Patandlinda View Post
That 's funny when you go to e-Trailer nothing for 80 . 200-300 + range .
But if you click the link which I posted, it leads directly to a page of higher-capacity Bulldog Collar-Lok couplers for for US$78.95 and US$79.95. The 7,000 pound capacity Collar-Lok couplers for a 2" ball are US$70.95 and US$73.95.

Although the Oliver literature says "cast iron", I think they're simply wrong, just as they use the wrong term for the component ("hitch" rather than "coupler"). Bulldog doesn't even offer their cast couplers in a straight-tongue version, but a A-frame style cast-head 8,000 pound Bulldog coupler is US$77.95 at eTrailer. I don't think any coupler is worth US$200 (although some might have a list price that high).
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Old 06-17-2016, 07:24 PM   #60
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Ron, I really like that first photo. Nice shot!


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Thanks Robert! My wife uses that as her screen saver on her iPad. She always liked that trailer better than the truck camper we had for a couple of years, which is one of the big reasons we are getting an Escape.
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