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Old 05-04-2019, 01:06 AM   #41
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most of the folks I know with airstreams have very old ones that have been completely rebuilt, and they love them. if you pin them down they'll admit the restoration cost far more than they had originally expected.
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Old 05-04-2019, 01:10 AM   #42
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I find my extra-insulation E21 far warmer/cooler, and far quieter than I found our Casita 16. Only real 'quality' issues I've found were a couple places where the staples in the luan weren't quite as nicely done as they should have been, easily fixed, just by fully seating the staple with a pair of pliers. haven't had any electric issues.
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Old 05-04-2019, 01:30 AM   #43
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most of the folks I know with airstreams have very old ones that have been completely rebuilt, and they love them. if you pin them down they'll admit the restoration cost far more than they had originally expected.
But they sure are nice ! Pat
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Old 05-04-2019, 02:56 PM   #44
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In terms of Canada vs US prices for Bigfoots, the transport costs may be a factor. It apparently costs something along the lines of $5K USD to get a Bigfoot from the factory to Florida. The Canadian dealers may also add less "pre-negotiation padding" than the US dealers do.
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Old 05-06-2019, 12:57 PM   #45
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I used to own BMWs. Four of them - at one time. People who never have owned one think that since it cost twice as much as a Camry, it must last twice as long. Not really!

Sure, it handles and performs better. Maybe the interior is nicer. But for the price of one BMW, you can buy two Camrys. I sold my BMWs and bought stock in BMW instead - it is the most profitable car company on the planet and pays a huge annual dividend. A lot better use of my money!

I went out and bought a hampster (KIA Soul) and never looked back. Air conditioned seats!

The Escape doesn't have double-wall construction, but so what? It costs a lot less and is wider than the Oliver

Our last fiberglass trailer - a 17' Casita - was 20 year old when we sold it, with few signs of wear. We paid $8375 for it, 15 years ago, and sold it for $7500. That's a pretty long service life for a single-wall fiberglass trailer. I doubt the Oliver or BigFoot would last longer.

I am sure the Oliver is a nice trailer, but for the cost involved, I think the Escape is a lot nicer. You have to do cost-benefit analysis on any purchase.
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Old 05-06-2019, 04:08 PM   #46
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You have to do cost-benefit analysis on any purchase.
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Old 05-06-2019, 06:44 PM   #47
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I used to own BMWs. Four of them - at one time. People who never have owned one think that since it cost twice as much as a Camry, it must last twice as long. Not really!

Sure, it handles and performs better. Maybe the interior is nicer. But for the price of one BMW, you can buy two Camrys. I sold my BMWs and bought stock in BMW instead - it is the most profitable car company on the planet and pays a huge annual dividend. A lot better use of my money!

I went out and bought a hampster (KIA Soul) and never looked back. Air conditioned seats!

The Escape doesn't have double-wall construction, but so what? It costs a lot less and is wider than the Oliver

Our last fiberglass trailer - a 17' Casita - was 20 year old when we sold it, with few signs of wear. We paid $8375 for it, 15 years ago, and sold it for $7500. That's a pretty long service life for a single-wall fiberglass trailer. I doubt the Oliver or BigFoot would last longer.

I am sure the Oliver is a nice trailer, but for the cost involved, I think the Escape is a lot nicer. You have to do cost-benefit analysis on any purchase.
I think you also need to understand what you are paying for . I get selling RV for more then purchase and, it was used for us . I sold our used motorhome that we had for 12 years and was now 24 years old at time of sale for 8900 . We bought 12 years earlier for 7200 . Not impressed with BMW but I do like old VW bugs . Have had 3 , just sold my last one for more then I paid for it 14 years in ownership ,1969 .We like the construction and 4 season and no plastic junk on the outside , which at a cost I changed all around our Escape . I am not going to argue with you You don't see the value and we do . Pat
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Old 05-06-2019, 08:26 PM   #48
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I think you also need to understand what you are paying for . I get selling RV for more then purchase and, it was used for us . I sold our used motorhome that we had for 12 years and was now 24 years old at time of sale for 8900 . We bought 12 years earlier for 7200 . Not impressed with BMW but I do like old VW bugs . Have had 3 , just sold my last one for more then I paid for it 14 years in ownership ,1969 .We like the construction and 4 season and no plastic junk on the outside , which at a cost I changed all around our Escape . I am not going to argue with you You don't see the value and we do . Pat
You're right - the VWs are much better values than their cousin Audis or any other German car. A BMW might cost two or three times as much as a VW, but it isn't two or three times as much car. It won't go twice as fast, last twice as long, or provide twice as much enjoyment. Oh, and it costs twice as much to fix. ;(

In fact, this is sort of a rule in Engineering. Each incremental improvement costs twice as much as the previous. Finding that "Sweet spot" between cost and utility is the key.

The Bigfoot and the Oliver are nice, and if I was camping in the winter or hunting, I would consider one. But since they have inner and outer shells, there is twice as much fiberglass and twice the assembly cost - a benefit that I would not see, as I camp in the summer.

But, they are better values than an Airstream! Dents, leaks and peeling clearcoat - what's not to like about an Airstream? They look cool, but are heartbreaking to own. A friend of mine had a Bambi and she hit a small tree branch with it, leaving a 10" dent 2" deep. $8000 later, it was fixed (thanks to insurance). That's more than I paid for the Casita! And that impact with the tree branch would not have even scratched a fiberglass RV.

Another friend bought a brand-new airstream and was caught in a hailstorm. The insurance company totaled it out and then sold it to them for a dollar. It kind of looks bad, but you can't beat the price, I guess.

We were in a hailstorm in El Paso that trashed my pickup truck but didn't damange the Casita at all.

Fiberglass RVs rock! The Oliver is nice and all, but I love the Escape. I think it is a great value for the money. Considering they have a nine-month backlog of campers to make, I am surprised they don't raise their prices. Shhhhhhhh!
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Old 05-06-2019, 10:14 PM   #49
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You're right - the VWs are much better values than their cousin Audis or any other German car. A BMW might cost two or three times as much as a VW, but it isn't two or three times as much car. It won't go twice as fast, last twice as long, or provide twice as much enjoyment. Oh, and it costs twice as much to fix. ;(

In fact, this is sort of a rule in Engineering. Each incremental improvement costs twice as much as the previous. Finding that "Sweet spot" between cost and utility is the key.

The Bigfoot and the Oliver are nice, and if I was camping in the winter or hunting, I would consider one. But since they have inner and outer shells, there is twice as much fiberglass and twice the assembly cost - a benefit that I would not see, as I camp in the summer.

But, they are better values than an Airstream! Dents, leaks and peeling clearcoat - what's not to like about an Airstream? They look cool, but are heartbreaking to own. A friend of mine had a Bambi and she hit a small tree branch with it, leaving a 10" dent 2" deep. $8000 later, it was fixed (thanks to insurance). That's more than I paid for the Casita! And that impact with the tree branch would not have even scratched a fiberglass RV.

Another friend bought a brand-new airstream and was caught in a hailstorm. The insurance company totaled it out and then sold it to them for a dollar. It kind of looks bad, but you can't beat the price, I guess.

We were in a hailstorm in El Paso that trashed my pickup truck but didn't damange the Casita at all.

Fiberglass RVs rock! The Oliver is nice and all, but I love the Escape. I think it is a great value for the money. Considering they have a nine-month backlog of campers to make, I am surprised they don't raise their prices. Shhhhhhhh!
Definetly have to agree with you about Airstreams ! And VW bugs absolutely my favorite ride . Here where I live one just about on every block . That's a testament ! So simple but so cool . Hey we can agree on some things ! Have a good night ! Pat
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:56 AM   #50
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The overall RV market continues to move towards smaller better designed TRAILERS!

RVIA reports Motorhome & large trailer sales way down and smaller towable's continue to increase. This is right were the fiberglass (FB) trailer builders have been positioned for years. Most FB manufacturer's built smaller lighter trailers. Casita, Scamp, Boler etc. Escape and Bigfoot have also built larger FB trailers.

The market for these EXPENSIVE FB trailers (Oliver, Bigfoot, Escape) is the "Fat 60 and up crowd" the BOOMER'S! They got the money and they got the retirement time to enjoy the trailer. They also grew up in a time when BIG and BIGGER is and was the American way. Kinda describes the buyer's also in most instances older Americans have gotten BIG and BIGGER! When that happens you still want a BIG trailer!

It's been recently reported that the Boomer's are no longer the largest generation by population. Welcome to the world of the Millennials (ML). As the RV industry continues to develop that's who they now cater to as a whole the ML's. Smaller new vehicles from OEM manufacture's for tow vehicles (TV), smaller homes, communal living and a taste for the open road. With many vehicles sold today with such limited towing capacity this change to small and smaller better designed trailers is inevitable!

Within in recent weeks there are now several FIBERGLASS trailer offerings from Europe that will manufactured in the USA and for sale in early 2020. The Europeans are MUCH BETTER at trailer design with regard to space and use than the Americans have ever been. Smaller trailer lots in RV parks, 500,000 new RV's are year and one wonders where are ALL THESE PEOPLE going to camp?

It's a pretty safe assumption that the vast owners of Escape trailers are older in age and/or Boomer's by generation. I suggest you get used to smaller and better designed RV trailers as a whole for the RV industry. That's the future of the RV industry!

Fortunately for us there will still be NICHE fiberglass trailer manufacturer's such as Escape, Bigfoot and Oliver that will still cater to the "Fat, 60 and Up Crowd"!
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Old 05-08-2019, 11:07 AM   #51
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The market for these EXPENSIVE FB trailers (Oliver, Bigfoot, Escape) is the "Fat 60 and up crowd" the BOOMER'S! They got the money and they got the retirement time to enjoy the trailer. They also grew up in a time when BIG and BIGGER is and was the American way. Kinda describes the buyer's also in most instances older Americans have gotten BIG and BIGGER! When that happens you still want a BIG trailer!

It's a pretty safe assumption that the vast owners of Escape trailers are older in age and/or Boomer's by generation. I suggest you get used to smaller and better designed RV trailers as a whole for the RV industry. That's the future of the RV industry!

Fortunately for us there will still be NICHE fiberglass trailer manufacturer's such as Escape, Bigfoot and Oliver that will still cater to the "Fat, 60 and Up Crowd"!
We are in our 60's but are neither wealthy nor fat. We consider our 5.0TA to be small and very well designed, that's what attracted us to it. We like to hike and go to national parks and public lands where the campsites tend to be small and our 5.0TA will let us fit in there. Our Escape is several magnitudes better in every way than our 1999 stick and tin fifth wheel, we couldn't be happier with it and I'm still surprised that other manufacturers have not moved towards small fifth wheels yet.
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Old 05-08-2019, 12:16 PM   #52
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Looked at Oliver in quartzsite last year. Very nicely appointed. Ran into folks who showed me Oliver in Flagstaff a few weeks later. They were flying home and company was picking up the unit. Broken frame. Oliver is basically a road princess just like airstream. Very nice fragile though a ladies rig. I wI'll be traveling with my lady friend and we looked at Oliver's and Airstreams. Ended up with a 23 foot airstream. Won't go half the places my 17b would go. Fixing up 17 to sell now. Will miss it.
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Old 05-08-2019, 12:18 PM   #53
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I actually went and toured an Oliver. It is very well done. High end parts and they really listen to their customers. All positive. First and last impressions count. So here is mine.
Upon approach to tour the Ollie, I thought, that couldn't possibly be the Oliver, its much too small. It resembled a bullet. I was wrong.
It was indeed the Oliver. I was looking at the twin layout, as I thought it might be versitile and be used as a queen or the normal twins. The space between them was very tight. VERY tight, as it is quite narrow inside.
It is fine for one, maybe two, small people. I would be traveling with two very large dogs. Neither of which would have enough room to turn around. That would be an issue. My youngest son was with me. He walked in, and walked out. He is not a big man, average, with wide shoulders.
When I asked why he left, he said it felt too confined. He said felt like he was getting an MRI.
(Not quite. But you get the idea....)
If I was traveling just me and a cat - maybe.
For me with another normal sized human and two dogs, no thank you.
I did appreciate the quality and thought that went into it. It just needs to be wider, taller,
and give a girl some breathing room.
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Old 05-08-2019, 12:23 PM   #54
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Oliver guarantees aluminum frame to original owner for five years
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Old 05-08-2019, 01:00 PM   #55
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With many vehicles sold today with such limited towing capacity this change to small and smaller better designed trailers is inevitable!
That seems unlikely to me. The personal vehicle market has essentially split into two categories, with the trucks and large SUVs having higher towing capacity than ever before, and the cars (including station wagons, which includes small "SUVs" and "crossovers") chosen mostly by people with no intention of towing.

The moulded fiberglass travel trailer category started with units which were 13 feet overall, and there are almost none of those left. I would not expect a return to that size.

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Within in recent weeks there are now several FIBERGLASS trailer offerings from Europe that will manufactured in the USA and for sale in early 2020.
What brands would these be? Hymer could come back, under the new Thor ownership, but I have not heard of this being announced.
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Old 05-08-2019, 01:54 PM   #56
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The overall RV market continues to move towards smaller better designed TRAILERS!

RVIA reports Motorhome & large trailer sales way down and smaller towable's continue to increase. This is right were the fiberglass (FB) trailer builders have been positioned for years. Most FB manufacturer's built smaller lighter trailers. Casita, Scamp, Boler etc. Escape and Bigfoot have also built larger FB trailers.

The market for these EXPENSIVE FB trailers (Oliver, Bigfoot, Escape) is the "Fat 60 and up crowd" the BOOMER'S! They got the money and they got the retirement time to enjoy the trailer. They also grew up in a time when BIG and BIGGER is and was the American way. Kinda describes the buyer's also in most instances older Americans have gotten BIG and BIGGER! When that happens you still want a BIG trailer!

It's been recently reported that the Boomer's are no longer the largest generation by population. Welcome to the world of the Millennials (ML). As the RV industry continues to develop that's who they now cater to as a whole the ML's. Smaller new vehicles from OEM manufacture's for tow vehicles (TV), smaller homes, communal living and a taste for the open road. With many vehicles sold today with such limited towing capacity this change to small and smaller better designed trailers is inevitable!

Within in recent weeks there are now several FIBERGLASS trailer offerings from Europe that will manufactured in the USA and for sale in early 2020. The Europeans are MUCH BETTER at trailer design with regard to space and use than the Americans have ever been. Smaller trailer lots in RV parks, 500,000 new RV's are year and one wonders where are ALL THESE PEOPLE going to camp?

It's a pretty safe assumption that the vast owners of Escape trailers are older in age and/or Boomer's by generation. I suggest you get used to smaller and better designed RV trailers as a whole for the RV industry. That's the future of the RV industry!

Fortunately for us there will still be NICHE fiberglass trailer manufacturer's such as Escape, Bigfoot and Oliver that will still cater to the "Fat, 60 and Up Crowd"!
I don't think you should lump in Escape with Oliver and Bigfoot as expensive trailers. Escape fits nicely between Scamp/Casita and Oliver/Bigfoot especially for Americans. We have met many Escape owners who are not "Fat, 60 and Up." And many like David says have moved down in size from larger stick built units with which they were tired of the many problems. We are not well off, but invested more than we'd planned for an RV to buy our first used Escape then last year when we realized buying new this year would really be expensive for us, we were fortunate to find an almost new 2016 which we plan to have as our forever trailer.

I thought it funny that Oliver had four trailers at the boler 50th anniversary meet last summer. I doubt they had much interest from the majority of campers who were there in their old 13 foot bolers. In fact Armadillo who make 13 foot FG trailers seemed to be visited much more than the Olivers, and Happier Camper as well.
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Old 05-08-2019, 01:56 PM   #57
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Brian I take issue with your comment about almost no 13 foot older FG trailers left. You should have come to Winnipeg last summer!
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Old 05-08-2019, 02:11 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintageracer View Post
The overall RV market continues to move towards smaller better designed TRAILERS!

RVIA reports Motorhome & large trailer sales way down and smaller towable's continue to increase. This is right were the fiberglass (FB) trailer builders have been positioned for years. Most FB manufacturer's built smaller lighter trailers. Casita, Scamp, Boler etc. Escape and Bigfoot have also built larger FB trailers.

The market for these EXPENSIVE FB trailers (Oliver, Bigfoot, Escape) is the "Fat 60 and up crowd" the BOOMER'S! They got the money and they got the retirement time to enjoy the trailer. They also grew up in a time when BIG and BIGGER is and was the American way. Kinda describes the buyer's also in most instances older Americans have gotten BIG and BIGGER! When that happens you still want a BIG trailer!

It's been recently reported that the Boomer's are no longer the largest generation by population. Welcome to the world of the Millennials (ML). As the RV industry continues to develop that's who they now cater to as a whole the ML's. Smaller new vehicles from OEM manufacture's for tow vehicles (TV), smaller homes, communal living and a taste for the open road. With many vehicles sold today with such limited towing capacity this change to small and smaller better designed trailers is inevitable!

Within in recent weeks there are now several FIBERGLASS trailer offerings from Europe that will manufactured in the USA and for sale in early 2020. The Europeans are MUCH BETTER at trailer design with regard to space and use than the Americans have ever been. Smaller trailer lots in RV parks, 500,000 new RV's are year and one wonders where are ALL THESE PEOPLE going to camp?

It's a pretty safe assumption that the vast owners of Escape trailers are older in age and/or Boomer's by generation. I suggest you get used to smaller and better designed RV trailers as a whole for the RV industry. That's the future of the RV industry!

Fortunately for us there will still be NICHE fiberglass trailer manufacturer's such as Escape, Bigfoot and Oliver that will still cater to the "Fat, 60 and Up Crowd"!
While you are entitled to your opinions, as we all are . Making those judgement calls wasn't very nice . I'm in my 70's and am not rich . We also have owned RV's since our 20's and always perfered smaller .That is just what we are comfortable with . We do like some niceties now as life is getting shorter . Have a nice day ! Pat
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Old 05-08-2019, 02:28 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by vintageracer View Post
The overall RV market continues to move towards smaller better designed TRAILERS!

RVIA reports Motorhome & large trailer sales way down and smaller towable's continue to increase. This is right were the fiberglass (FB) trailer builders have been positioned for years. Most FB manufacturer's built smaller lighter trailers. Casita, Scamp, Boler etc. Escape and Bigfoot have also built larger FB trailers.

The market for these EXPENSIVE FB trailers (Oliver, Bigfoot, Escape) is the "Fat 60 and up crowd" the BOOMER'S! They got the money and they got the retirement time to enjoy the trailer. They also grew up in a time when BIG and BIGGER is and was the American way. Kinda describes the buyer's also in most instances older Americans have gotten BIG and BIGGER! When that happens you still want a BIG trailer!

It's been recently reported that the Boomer's are no longer the largest generation by population. Welcome to the world of the Millennials (ML). As the RV industry continues to develop that's who they now cater to as a whole the ML's. Smaller new vehicles from OEM manufacture's for tow vehicles (TV), smaller homes, communal living and a taste for the open road. With many vehicles sold today with such limited towing capacity this change to small and smaller better designed trailers is inevitable!

Within in recent weeks there are now several FIBERGLASS trailer offerings from Europe that will manufactured in the USA and for sale in early 2020. The Europeans are MUCH BETTER at trailer design with regard to space and use than the Americans have ever been. Smaller trailer lots in RV parks, 500,000 new RV's are year and one wonders where are ALL THESE PEOPLE going to camp?

It's a pretty safe assumption that the vast owners of Escape trailers are older in age and/or Boomer's by generation. I suggest you get used to smaller and better designed RV trailers as a whole for the RV industry. That's the future of the RV industry!

Fortunately for us there will still be NICHE fiberglass trailer manufacturer's such as Escape, Bigfoot and Oliver that will still cater to the "Fat, 60 and Up Crowd"!
It sounds like we will soon be seeing two footitis everywhere! First ETI will bring back the 15' and a new 13' model can't be far behind! The Airstream Nest 14' is probably already in the works along with the Scamp 11'.
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Old 05-08-2019, 02:48 PM   #60
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Brian I take issue with your comment about almost no 13 foot older FG trailers left. You should have come to Winnipeg last summer!
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The moulded fiberglass travel trailer category started with units which were 13 feet overall, and there are almost none of those left. I would not expect a return to that size.
I believe he meant being newly manufactured. Many are out of business or no longer making 13'+/- length trailers. There are still a few though.
Scamp, Happier Camper, Armadillo, Trillium Outback...maybe others too. This is just off the top of my head.
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