|
|
07-05-2015, 08:29 PM
|
#41
|
Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogiyoda
A properly configured version of the new aluminum F-150 seems to have a much higher capacity and is the only half-ton recommended to to tow a typical fifth wheel up to to almost 12,000 lbs.
|
When properly equipped, a 2015 F150 can tow up to 9100 lbs. Our 2WD / 5.5 Bed / 2.7L Ecoboost / Tow Package can do 8100. 12000 is way over the max.
But, take your typical 5th wheel that weighs less, let's say in the 9000 lb range. About 25% of that will be weight on the pin, which means the back is holding up 2250 lbs -- and that's too much. In the 5.0TA, its less than 20%, and that's 20% of a MUCH lighter trailer. The weight on the pin would be around 600 lbs. Well within the capacities for a half ton truck.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
|
|
|
07-05-2015, 10:47 PM
|
#42
|
Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Earth, Florida
Trailer: none
Posts: 64
|
An F-150 with the 3.5 L ecoboost can tow up to 12,000 lbs when properly configured. Here's info from Ford:
2015 Ford F-150 | View Towing Specifications | Ford.com
600 lbs is the dry pin weight. Once loaded down, that may vary depending on how much weight is added and where in the trailer that weight is... Has anyone determined what the pin weight is for the trailer with full tanks and some cargo?
Also, the calculator I linked allows you to adjust the percentage of weight on the pin. The vehicles max allowed GCWR and GVWR are important for properly figuring things out.
RV Tow Check | Towing Guide Eliminator
But you are right the default calculations done at the following page assumed a 20% of the weight on the pin. If you moved that down to 16% or 17% and recalculated then some of the maximum safe fifth wheel weights may go up. But the default calculations also assumed a stripped down pickup truck with very light passenger and vehicle cargo. So that may bring your recalculation max back down.
How Much Can A Half-ton Truck Tow Without Exceeding Ratings?
|
|
|
07-05-2015, 11:05 PM
|
#43
|
Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogiyoda
A properly configured F-150 with the 3.5 L ecoboost can tow up to 12,000 lbs when properly configured. Here's info from Ford:
2015 Ford F-150 | View Towing Specifications | Ford.com
600 lbs is the dry pin weight. Once loaded down, that may vary depending on how much weight is added and where in the trailer that weight is... Has anyone determined what the pin weight is for the trailer with full tanks and some cargo?
Also, the calculator I linked allows you to adjust the percentage of weight on the pin. The vehicles max allowed GCWR and GVWR are important for properly figuring things out.
RV Tow Check | Towing Guide Eliminator
But you are right the default calculations done at the following page assumed a 20% of the weight on the pin. If you moved that down to 16% or 17% and recalculated then some of the maximum safe fifth wheel weights may go up. But the default calculations also assumed a stripped down pickup truck with very light passenger and vehicle cargo. So that may bring your recalculation max back down.
How Much Can A Half-ton Truck Tow Without Exceeding Ratings?
|
Thanks for the clarification. Yeah, with the 141.1" wheelbase, the highest ratio axle, and the heavy duty payload package, it goes up to 12100. That's an impressive max trailer weight for a "1/2 Ton" truck.
Even loaded though, if a midsize truck can handle the 5.0TA, a full size truck can too.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
|
|
|
07-06-2015, 10:32 AM
|
#44
|
Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Earth, Florida
Trailer: none
Posts: 64
|
After considering passengers, cargo, truck upgrades and full tanks; I'm not so sure that any midsize trucks can tow a 5.0 TA without exceeding the ratings of either the GCWR, GVWR, or GAWR. And as the website says, "One's ability to tow a fifth wheel doesn't prove exceeding the ratings is okay."
|
|
|
07-06-2015, 11:51 AM
|
#45
|
Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogiyoda
After considering passengers, cargo, truck upgrades and full tanks; I'm not so sure that any midsize trucks can tow a 5.0 TA without exceeding the ratings of either the GCWR, GVWR, or GAWR. And as the website says, "One's ability to tow a fifth wheel doesn't prove exceeding the ratings is okay."
|
True, and many (like Nissan for example) make it difficult if not impossible to get the GCWR. They don't publish one on the website, although it might be on the FMVSS placard.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
|
|
|
07-06-2015, 12:00 PM
|
#46
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North of Danbury, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2018 Escape 21C
Posts: 3,033
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogiyoda
After considering passengers, cargo, truck upgrades and full tanks; I'm not so sure that any midsize trucks can tow a 5.0 TA without exceeding the ratings of either the GCWR, GVWR, or GAWR. And as the website says, "One's ability to tow a fifth wheel doesn't prove exceeding the ratings is okay."
|
My full size 1/2 ton pickup has a listed towing capacity of 10,250 lbs
a payload capacity of 1430 lbs and a GVWR of 6800 lbs . My Casita 17ft Deluxe
weighs 3300 lbs with a tongue weight of 350 lbs. The combined weight of my vehicle's curb weight ,vehicle options ,passengers, cargo , trailer tongue weight and truck toppers brings my total gross weight right up against my vehicles GVWR & RAWR.
If I wanted to tow an Escape 5.0 TA with my present truck , stay within its stated limits, and assuming a pin weight of 6 to 700 lbs. I would have to reduce my cargo weight or leave my wife and the dog at home.
|
|
|
07-06-2015, 12:09 PM
|
#47
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: St. Thomas not BVI., Ontario
Trailer: 2014 Escape 5.0TA / 2016 Ram Eco Diesel 4X4
Posts: 8,038
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham
My full size 1/2 ton pickup has a listed towing capacity of 10,250 lbs
a payload capacity of 1430 lbs and a GVWR of 6800 lbs . My Casita 17ft Deluxe
weighs 3300 lbs with a tongue weight of 350 lbs. The combined weight of my vehicle's curb weight ,vehicle options ,passengers, cargo , trailer tongue weight and truck toppers brings my total gross weight right up against my vehicles GVWR & RAWR.
If I wanted to tow an Escape 5.0 TA with my present truck , stay within its stated limits, and assuming a pin weight of 6 to 700 lbs. I would have to reduce my cargo weight or leave my wife and the dog at home.
|
Hi: steve dunham... Cargo...that's the "Slim fast plan". Passengers are always optional. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
__________________
Quote Bugs Bunny..."Don't take life too seriously, none of us get out of it ALIVE"!!!
'16 Ram Eco D. 4X4 Laramie Longhorn CC & '14 Escape 5.0TA
St.Thomas (Not the Virgin Islands) Ontario
|
|
|
07-06-2015, 12:57 PM
|
#48
|
Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Earth, Florida
Trailer: none
Posts: 64
|
Okay, so the new Chevy and GMC mid-size trucks have the highest towing and payload capacities for the category. I’ve run the GMC Canyon 4X2 Crew Cab with long bed through the RV Tow Check 2.0 Calculator.
RV Tow Check | Towing Guide Eliminator
Here are the inputs:
Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR): 12,000 lbs
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR): 5,800 lbs
Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW): 4,200 lbs (curb weight of base model with no options)
Fifth wheel hitch: Yes
Pin weight percentage: 16%
Driver weight: 230 lbs
Additional vehicle add ons, cargo, passenger weight: 200 lbs
These inputs give me a maximum allowed fifth wheel weight of 6,062 lbs. This is more than enough for a fully loaded 5.0 TA weighing in at 5,500 lbs.
However, the results are very sensitive to additional cargo weight or weight distribution!
If only 300 lbs of additional cargo, passenger, or vehicle options are added to the truck, then the max 5th wheel weight drops to 4,187 lbs. Which isn’t enough for a fully loaded 5.0 TA.
If, on top of the additional weight, the distribution in the trailer causes 17% of the weight on the pin; then the max allowed 5th wheel is only 3,941 lbs.
Add another 200 lbs of weight to the truck and the max allowed 5th wheel drops to 2,764 lbs. Not even close to enough to tow a completely empty barebones 5.0 TA weighing 3,700 lbs.
|
|
|
07-06-2015, 01:01 PM
|
#49
|
Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Earth, Florida
Trailer: none
Posts: 64
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by escape artist
Hi: steve dunham... Cargo...that's the "Slim fast plan". Passengers are always optional. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
|
|
|
|
07-06-2015, 01:17 PM
|
#50
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North of Danbury, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2018 Escape 21C
Posts: 3,033
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogiyoda
Okay, so the new Chevy and GMC mid-size trucks have the highest towing and payload capacities for the category. I’ve run the GMC Canyon 4X2 Crew Cab with long bed through the RV Tow Check 2.0 Calculator.
RV Tow Check | Towing Guide Eliminator
Here are the inputs:
Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR): 12,000 lbs
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR): 5,800 lbs
Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW): 4,200 lbs (curb weight of base model with no options)
Fifth wheel hitch: Yes
Pin weight percentage: 16%
Driver weight: 230 lbs
Additional vehicle add ons, cargo, passenger weight: 200 lbs
These inputs give me a maximum allowed fifth wheel weight of 6,062 lbs. This is more than enough for a fully loaded 5.0 TA weighing in at 5,500 lbs.
However, the results are very sensitive to additional cargo weight or weight distribution!
If only 300 lbs of additional cargo, passenger, or vehicle options are added to the truck, then the max 5th wheel weight drops to 4,187 lbs. Which isn’t enough for a fully loaded 5.0 TA.
If, on top of the additional weight, the distribution in the trailer causes 17% of the weight on the pin; then the max allowed 5th wheel is only 3,941 lbs.
Add another 200 lbs of weight to the truck and the max allowed 5th wheel drops to 2,764 lbs. Not even close to enough to tow a completely empty barebones 5.0 TA weighing 3,700 lbs.
|
Don't forget that you also have to make allowance for the weight of the
5th wheel hitch which is approx 150lbs.
|
|
|
07-06-2015, 01:36 PM
|
#51
|
Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Earth, Florida
Trailer: none
Posts: 64
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham
Don't forget that you also have to make allowance for the weight of the
5th wheel hitch which is approx 150lbs.
|
I checked that box on the calculator so that's already included in the calculations. I'm not sure what weight they use but it's probably on the heavy side to be safe.
|
|
|
07-06-2015, 02:03 PM
|
#52
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: St. Thomas not BVI., Ontario
Trailer: 2014 Escape 5.0TA / 2016 Ram Eco Diesel 4X4
Posts: 8,038
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogiyoda
I checked that box on the calculator so that's already included in the calculations. I'm not sure what weight they use but it's probably on the heavy side to be safe.
|
Hi: yogiyoda... I believe the 5.0TA pin weight also includes 2 full propane tanks. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
__________________
Quote Bugs Bunny..."Don't take life too seriously, none of us get out of it ALIVE"!!!
'16 Ram Eco D. 4X4 Laramie Longhorn CC & '14 Escape 5.0TA
St.Thomas (Not the Virgin Islands) Ontario
|
|
|
07-06-2015, 08:53 PM
|
#53
|
Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Earth, Florida
Trailer: none
Posts: 64
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by escape artist
Hi: yogiyoda... I believe the 5.0TA pin weight also includes 2 full propane tanks. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
|
Do you mean the 600 lb "Dry hitch weight" already includes full propane tanks?
|
|
|
07-06-2015, 11:06 PM
|
#54
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogiyoda
After considering passengers, cargo, truck upgrades and full tanks; I'm not so sure that any midsize trucks can tow a 5.0 TA without exceeding the ratings of either the GCWR, GVWR, or GAWR.
|
It's easy to exceed limits, but in forum discussions we've run the numbers for a few members' rigs and it can be done. GVWR seems to be the most problematic limit, even with the larger conventional trailers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryan4
True, and many (like Nissan for example) make it difficult if not impossible to get the GCWR. They don't publish one on the website, although it might be on the FMVSS placard.
|
It's usually not a problem for trucks, but it is hard to find for many vehicles. On the other hand, I've never seen GCWR on a placard... probably because it isn't a legally enforced limit so there's federal requirement to put in on the placard. Both GAWR and the GVWR will be on the placard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by escape artist
Hi: yogiyoda... I believe the 5.0TA pin weight also includes 2 full propane tanks.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogiyoda
Do you mean the 600 lb "Dry hitch weight" already includes full propane tanks?
|
That seems unlikely to me. "Dry" means without fluids, after all.
|
|
|
07-06-2015, 11:17 PM
|
#55
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogiyoda
... These inputs give me a maximum allowed fifth wheel weight of 6,062 lbs. This is more than enough for a fully loaded 5.0 TA weighing in at 5,500 lbs.
However, the results are very sensitive to additional cargo weight or weight distribution!
If only 300 lbs of additional cargo, passenger, or vehicle options are added to the truck, then the max 5th wheel weight drops to 4,187 lbs. Which isn’t enough for a fully loaded 5.0 TA.
If, on top of the additional weight, the distribution in the trailer causes 17% of the weight on the pin; then the max allowed 5th wheel is only 3,941 lbs.
Add another 200 lbs of weight to the truck and the max allowed 5th wheel drops to 2,764 lbs.
|
This is a good explanation of why it makes sense to shoot for much lower pin weight, since that's the problem (rather than gross trailer weight).
It also emphasizes the importance for larger trailers, and especially for fifth-wheels, of choosing options carefully and including packages which increase payload.
|
|
|
07-06-2015, 11:23 PM
|
#56
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: SLO County, California
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21C 2019 Expedition
Posts: 5,215
|
....and realizing if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
|
|
|
07-06-2015, 11:59 PM
|
#57
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: St. Thomas not BVI., Ontario
Trailer: 2014 Escape 5.0TA / 2016 Ram Eco Diesel 4X4
Posts: 8,038
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogiyoda
Do you mean the 600 lb "Dry hitch weight" already includes full propane tanks?
|
Hi: yogiyoda... Ask Reace...He should know. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
__________________
Quote Bugs Bunny..."Don't take life too seriously, none of us get out of it ALIVE"!!!
'16 Ram Eco D. 4X4 Laramie Longhorn CC & '14 Escape 5.0TA
St.Thomas (Not the Virgin Islands) Ontario
|
|
|
07-07-2015, 07:05 AM
|
#58
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Southwick, Massachusetts
Trailer: None, sold my 2014 5.0TA
Posts: 7,124
|
If interested, my 5.0TA pin weight was 728 lbs returning from a trip, propane pretty much full, all holding tanks roughly half. The black and grey tanks are in front of the axles, fresh is behind, wouldn't be hard to get the pin heavier then I had.
__________________
Happy Motoring
Bob
|
|
|
07-07-2015, 07:45 AM
|
#59
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
|
What was the weight of your trailer over the axles, Bob?
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
|
|
|
07-07-2015, 07:58 AM
|
#60
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North of Danbury, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2018 Escape 21C
Posts: 3,033
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by padlin
If interested, my 5.0TA pin weight was 728 lbs returning from a trip, propane pretty much full, all holding tanks roughly half. The black and grey tanks are in front of the axles, fresh is behind, wouldn't be hard to get the pin heavier then I had.
|
Thank you for posting your actual pin weight . I had a feeling that the dry pin weight of 600 lbs posted by Escape would be a little low . Our friends new 34ft "LIGHTWEIGHT " fifth wheel trailer has a pin weight approaching 30% and he is over the GVWR for his 3/4 ton diesel truck
I admire this forum for its rational and logical discussion of tow vehicles . Many times on other forums logic never enters the picture and people end up believing they can tow
their 19ft, 4000lb trailer with a Mini Cooper
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|