Twin Beds in a 21?

[Selkirk]

All the recent news regarding the official launch the E23, including the twin bed option, started me thinking if it would be feasible for any of the existing Escape models to support a twin bed floorplan.

As a thought exercise, I took a look at the floorplans and dimensions of the 21NE and 19.

To me, It looks like it might be possible to squeeze in a 35x78 North-South rear twin bed layout (with a 12" isle) into a 21NE, provided that:

- The fridge/closet/bathroom could be pushed forward about 18".
- The upper/lower kitchen cabinet assembly from the 19 was utilized (about 5" narrower than the 21NE).
- The entry door relocated about 13" farther forward.
- The smaller 42" dinette layout from the 19 was utilized.

I suspect the deal killer is that relocating the door would likely require a new set of moulds. That's unfortunate, as otherwise I think developing such a layout could be done economically (assuming sufficient customer demand).

Of course, I doubt they want to cannibalize potential sales of the 23T with another twin bed floorplan either.....

[Donna D.]

What about the bathroom? Remember there are wheel wells to deal with too.


A 19' trailer is 7' wide. Twin beds take up 6.3 feet in width (38x75). Definitely aren't going to get a walk arounds. If you have people who don't want to share a bed, it may be best where one person takes the bed and the dinette gets made up into a bed every night. Or see if ETI will option a trailer with beds at each end and no dinette.

[Jim Bennett]

Donna's observations are good. You cannot move the bath and most definitely not the door. Basically, just too much customisation that I am quite sure Escape would just say no to.

I do like the twin beds for the 23.

[Ron in BC]

At various times over the years there's been conversations like this.

It's sort of like ball parking a design. An idea pops up and at first blush looks feasible. Then some hard numbers are added and it doesn't look feasible any more.

But what do I know. Years ago, long before the 21NE, I said that I'd like a 21 with a 19 floor plan. I thought that if I ever got the chance to buy a written off 21 that I could gut that I'd try it. But the door location was a deal breaker, moving it for a one-off didn't seem feasible.

So who knows. Certainly it's unlikely that ETI even be remotely interested in going down that road. But maybe someone someday might try reconfiguring the interior of a written off Gen 2 21NE.

Ron

[Doug2000]

I think the biggest concern here is the weight distribution. The beds in the back are fairly light and your pushing the appliances forward. Right now the appliances sit over the axle giving a ideal hitch weight. Also the bathroom is shared between the 3 different models and front bath would require new mold.

Have you seen the 5.0 with seperate mattresses up top, left and right?

[splitting_lanes]

Originally Posted by Doug2000

Have you seen the 5.0 with seperate mattresses up top, left and right?

No, was that ever an option or did someone customize one like that?

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by splitting_lanes

No, was that ever an option or did someone customize one like that?

I don't know where I captured this picture, either here or at the Facebook group. These are not standard twin bed sized. Note the cubies in the corners were removed too. This was done at the factory. Not an owner mod. That I do remember.

[splitting_lanes]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

I don't know where I captured this picture, either here or at the Facebook group. These are not standard twin bed sized. Note the cubies in the corners were removed too. This was done at the factory. Not an owner mod. That I do remember.

Yeah, that’s what I thought, the cubbies would have to be removed. Thanks for sharing the picture Donna.

[Selkirk]

Twin beds must be gaining in popularity. I noticed that InTech Trailers, whom I think can be regarded as a non-molded FG competitor to Escape in the premium small trailer market, recently introduced a 30"x80" twin bed model called the "Dusk" to their Sol line.

It looks like InTech created this new version by stretching their existing "Horizon" by about 20" (a trailer with dimensions and layout very similar to the E19). That's also about the same length difference between the E19 and E21. This made me think that Escape could potentially offer a competing floorplan that was smaller/less expensive than the 23 (which I think aligns more with InTech's Terra line).

However, the unique design constraints associated with molded fiberglass might prevent this from being a cost-effective/viable option for ETI to consider developing.

[Ron in BC]

I think that a person privately could modify a 21NE to have twin beds in the rear with some changes.

Everyone looks at a plan view and comes to the conclusion that the length of the bed forces a drastic shortening of other interior items.

It doesn't necessarily have to be that way. For example, on one sailboat that I built, I fitted a queen bed into a 5' space amidships between the wall of the head and the pilothouse bulkhead. I made a footwell that went through the bulkhead and under the dinette seat above. How much headroom do your feet need?

Maybe, sooner or later, someone with a 21NE tired of the crawlover will look more closely at the footwell option. Not saying that it'd be easy but I think that it could be done.

Ron

[DeanCHS1980]

Originally Posted by Selkirk

Twin beds must be gaining in popularity. I noticed that InTech Trailers, whom I think can be regarded as a non-molded FG competitor to Escape in the premium small trailer market, recently introduced a 30"x80" twin bed model called the "Dusk" to their Sol line.

It looks like InTech created this new version by stretching their existing "Horizon" by about 20" (a trailer with dimensions and layout very similar to the E19). That's also about the same length difference between the E19 and E21. This made me think that Escape could potentially offer a competing floorplan that was smaller/less expensive than the 23 (which I think aligns more with InTech's Terra line).

However, the unique design constraints associated with molded fiberglass might prevent this from being a cost-effective/viable option for ETI to consider developing.

I have have good friend that works in the RV industry and monitors RV quality. He speaks highly of the InTech product. We are huge molded fiberglass fans, but there are two non-egg campers that we would consider: the Safari Condo Alto 21 or 24 or the Intech (Sol Dusk). We are absolutely impressed with the Dusk. Love the floor plan. Twin beds in just under 21’. Impressive. We love the aesthetic as well. One nitpick - no sink in the wet bath. Deal breaker - it has a combined 32 gallon black/grey tank. NOPE. Our Casita has 32 gallons of grey and 15 gallons of black. I am not losing 15 gallons of capacity. And, I don’t want a combined tank. If inTech would address this issue, we would be seriously tempted. We want a twin bed model with a separate sitting area in 24’ preferably 21’ (and no more than 7.5 ft wide). We are Oliver fans, but just too pricey unless we buy used and still too pricey. We would love to see an Escape 21 floor plan with a twin bed setup (contemporary interior please). The Escape 23 is nearly 24’ long and nearly 8’ wide. I think just too big for us.

In any case, I think Intech is offering a solid alternative for us. Currently, still loving our Casita and plan to keep it another 3 years or so. If Intech or Escape or another egg manufacturer or a “high quality” non-egg brand similar to Safari Condo or Intech offers a 21’ (no more than 7.5’ wide twin bed model with a separate sitting area), we will consider it.

Happy Camping,

Dean

[Selkirk]

Originally Posted by DeanCHS1980

We are huge molded fiberglass fans, but there are two non-egg campers that we would consider: the Safari Condo Alto 21 or 24 or the Intech (Sol Dusk). We are absolutely impressed with the Dusk. Love the floor plan. Twin beds in just under 21’. Impressive. We love the aesthetic as well. One nitpick - no sink in the wet bath. Deal breaker - it has a combined 32 gallon black/grey tank. NOPE. Our Casita has 32 gallons of grey and 15 gallons of black. I am not losing 15 gallons of capacity. And, I don’t want a combined tank. If inTech would address this issue, we would be seriously tempted. We want a twin bed model with a separate sitting area in 24’ preferably 21’ (and no more than 7.5 ft wide). We are Oliver fans, but just too pricey unless we buy used and still too pricey. We would love to see an Escape 21 floor plan with a twin bed setup (contemporary interior please). The Escape 23 is nearly 24’ long and nearly 8’ wide. I think just too big for us.

In any case, I think Intech is offering a solid alternative for us. Currently, still loving our Casita and plan to keep it another 3 years or so. If Intech or Escape or another egg manufacturer or a “high quality” non-egg brand similar to Safari Condo or Intech offers a 21’ (no more than 7.5’ wide twin bed model with a separate sitting area), we will consider it.

Happy Camping,

Dean

I spent a lot of time researching small trailers prior to ordering my E19. Likewise, both Intech and Safari Condo trailers were on my short list of potential non-molded FG alternatives. Both brands should be on ETI's radar as direct competitors.

Aside from not being molded FG, the weaknesses that ultimately turned me away from the Sol Horizon (compared to the E19) was the combined black/grey tank, lack of closet/pantry space, no wet bath sink, no provision for a flip-up kitchen counter extension, less-than stellar insulation (only a thin layer of reflectix between the interior walls and the very thermally conductive aluminum structure), and single axle-only design.

It was still very nice....for an Elkhart-built RV. I can't say that for most of the other trailers I looked at.

[MrLynn]

Back in December 2021, when Escapes were in short supply, we actually ordered an inTech Sol Horizon. I, too, was not crazy about the combined black-grey tank, the lack of a bathroom sink, the thin walls, and the need to refresh roof seams annually. But we did like the spacious, bright, and cheerful feel the huge front-forward picture window afforded, and figured we could make the rest work. But then reports started popping up on their Facebook page of axle mounts breaking, and that was a deal-breaker: I got our deposit back and cancelled the order. With only one axle, I would have been worrying constantly when on the road.

Since then (it took a year or so), inTech fixed the problem with the welded-aluminum axle mounts (don't buy a used one unless it's been addressed), so I wouldn't worry about that now. But in the spring of '22, I was fortunate enough to catch a 2019 21C from a forum member who was upgrading to a Big Foot 24.

Molded-fiberglass has limitations of space, design, even window size, but it's still superior to alternative construction. And if you wanted twin axles with inTech, you'd have to go up to their Terra models, on a par pricewise with Escape's new 23.