5.0 solar install question

[ko6dr]

Hi

I'm planning on installing 320 watt, 24v panels on my soon to be arriving 5.0. I will be making the mounts for the panels. They will be attached to the roof, so the question:

Where can I drill/screw through the roof near the side edge so I go into framing that is inside the fiberglass?

Thanks

[Jim Bennett]

There is no framing along the roof. You would need to attach it to the fiberglass shell either with machine bolts or a VHB tape.

I went with semi flexible which can easily be installed with tape.

[occer]

Once you get your 5.0 you will be able to see where the wood members that are covered by the fabric are. The cabinets are attached to them and you will be able it see were the fabric wraps over them.
Attached is a picture (not a 5.0) but showing the wood as they install the wiring before the insulation and white covering is installed

[BobG]

Originally Posted by ko6dr

Where can I drill/screw through the roof near the side edge so I go into framing that is inside the fiberglass?
Thanks

My trailer was not a 5.0. It was a 21NE. Because I didn't want bolts showing inside the trailer, I placed them inside cabinets and then used a rail connected to the "L" brackets and then clamped the solar panels to the rail.

I placed attachment bolts inside the cabinets next to the wood blocking used to attach the cabinets. I slit the foam fabric at the bolt locations and peeled it back. I slit it along the wood blocking inside the cabinet. Actually, there was trim piece of 1/8" paneling covering the wood blocking. I removed the trim piece. I used contact cement to reattach the fabric and then tacked the trim piece back in place after installing the bolts.

I used 3/8" stainless steel bolts inserted through a 2 1/2" SS fender washer then through a 3"x3"x3/16" thick piece of HDPE and up through the roof. I used 3M 5200 between the HDPE and the fiberglass roof. I held the bolt from spinning while the "L" bracket, split lock washer and nut were installed from above. I used a torque wrench to tighten the nuts.

The bolts were installed in a straight line snapped on top of the trailer. To locate the drill holes so they were in the cabinet where I wanted, I used 2 small rare earth magnets. One magnet held in place inside the cabinet where I wanted the bolt and the other magnet on top of the roof centered on it to identify the location for drilling. the location was then lined up on the snapped line.

Bolts were cut off flush with the nuts the next day after the 5200 set up and then covered with the sealant Escape uses (I forget what it is called).

Rails were attached to the "L" brackets and then the solar panels to the rails. For attaching the solar panels to the roof where I didn't want bolts, I used 3M VHB tape and brackets from AM Solar. Tape was preinstalled by AM Solar.

The sketches are what I started with. I made changes per this narrative such as bolt size, running the bolts up through the roof and using HDPE blocks between the fender washer and the fiberglass ceiling.

Hopefully this approach to bolt locations gives you some ideas. Your dimensions will of course be different. The bolts do not show inside the cabinets.

[jjdeluca]

Originally Posted by BobG

My trailer was not a 5.0. It was a 21NE. Because I didn't want bolts showing inside the trailer, I placed them inside cabinets and then used a rail connected to the "L" brackets and then clamped the solar panels to the rail.

I placed attachment bolts inside the cabinets next to the wood blocking used to attach the cabinets. I slit the foam fabric at the bolt locations and peeled it back. I slit it along the wood blocking inside the cabinet. Actually, there was trim piece of 1/8" paneling covering the wood blocking. I removed the trim piece. I used contact cement to reattach the fabric and then tacked the trim piece back in place after installing the bolts.

I used 3/8" stainless steel bolts inserted through a 2 1/2" SS fender washer then through a 3"x3"x3/16" thick piece of HDPE and up through the roof. I used 3M 5200 between the HDPE and the fiberglass roof. I held the bolt from spinning while the "L" bracket, split lock washer and nut were installed from above. I used a torque wrench to tighten the nuts.

The bolts were installed in a straight line snapped on top of the trailer. To locate the drill holes so they were in the cabinet where I wanted, I used 2 small rare earth magnets. One magnet held in place inside the cabinet where I wanted the bolt and the other magnet on top of the roof centered on it to identify the location for drilling. the location was then lined up on the snapped line.

Bolts were cut off flush with the nuts the next day after the 5200 set up and then covered with the sealant Escape uses (I forget what it is called).

Rails were attached to the "L" brackets and then the solar panels to the rails. For attaching the solar panels to the roof where I didn't want bolts, I used 3M VHB tape and brackets from AM Solar. Tape was preinstalled by AM Solar.

The sketches are what I started with. I made changes per this narrative such as bolt size, running the bolts up through the roof and using HDPE blocks between the fender washer and the fiberglass ceiling.

Hopefully this approach to bolt locations gives you some ideas. Your dimensions will of course be different. The bolts do not show inside the cabinets.

Nice job Bob! Looks like a well thought out & executed plan. (From your calc sheet/sketches I'm guessing you're a fellow engineer - or architect?)
Jim

[Perry Butler]

I added 300 watts (plus, the original 170 watt panel) to our 2018 5.0 for a total of 463 watts (a loss of 7 watts when combining the rear 170 watt panel with the three 100 watt panels). It was easy and no drilling. This was documented in the Added 300 Watts To Our 5.0 thread. If you use plenty of VHB tape (I totally over taped our little 100 watt panels) you could install 60" long panels in the east/west configuration for up to 800 watts on your roof. If you do install 60" long panels, I would use two extra mounts on the front of the forward most panel that gets the airstream.

According to our Victron 100/30's history we saw 440 watts going to the battery one day in the spring, when in Arizona. The rest of the year we would get 270-360 watts on most days.

Last winter we sold the 5.0 and purchased a 25' Bigfoot. I just installed the third 200 watt 24v Rich Solar panel, for 600 watts on the roof going into a Victron 100/50 solar controller. Since the panels are installed north/south, I used AM Solars 5 hole mounts. For jollies, I chose to install a single screw into the roof in each of the two forward mounted AM Solar mounts, since that's the one in the direct airstream.

With VHB tape you MUST prep the area correctly to remove all wax and other coatings. A number of years ago Escape didn't and had panels fly off.

If you want even more information PM me your phone # and we'll talk.

Enjoy,

Perry

[TahoeJoe]

Originally Posted by Perry Butler

For jollies, I chose to install a single screw into the roof in each of the two forward mounted AM Solar mounts, since that's the one in the direct airstream.

With VHB tape you MUST prep the area correctly to remove all wax and other coatings. A number of years ago Escape didn't and had panels fly off.

I second this, both for VHB as a great option and for prepping the surface being a priority. Details on my install are in this thread. Just like Perry, I reinforced the very front 2 mounts, but with JB MarineWeld instead of screws. Nothing has budged a millimeter...

[BobG]

Originally Posted by jjdeluca

Nice job Bob! Looks like a well thought out & executed plan. (From your calc sheet/sketches I'm guessing you're a fellow engineer - or architect?)
Jim

Jim, yes, I am engineer retired 2005.

[jjdeluca]

Bob - In studying your sketches more closely, it appears that you've installed 100w Renogy panel(s) along the passenger side of your 21NE (between the AC & awning) as well as NewPowa (200w?) panel(s) centered on the roof. I'd be curious how many panels/watts you were able to install and the approximate panel locations. I'm planning to install solar panels on our (future) 5.0 & was wasn't sure if the 20" (or 21") wide Renogy 100w panels would fit along the passenger side of the roof. I realize your trailer is a 21NE, but I believe the width should be the same as the 5.0. Thanks - Jim

[BobG]

Originally Posted by jjdeluca

Bob - I'd be curious how many panels/watts you were able to install and the approximate panel locations. Thanks - Jim

Originally I seriously considered Rich panels. When I discovered their frames were smaller than the typical 35 or 40 mm frame and AM Solar Mount Adapters would not work. I switched to Newpowa panels; 4x 160 watt panels on the sides wired in series with 100-30 MPPT SCC and 2x 210 watt panels front and back wired in series with 100-20 MPPT SCC. Total 1060 watts. 24 volt battery.

The front and rear panels have 4 clamps to the rail near the end of the panels and 4 VHB tape "L" feet connections at the panel's optimum structural location for up and down forces.

I wanted to use 360 watt Panasonic panels front and rear but chickened out. Now I wish I had used them.

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by BobG

Originally I seriously considered Rich panels. When I discovered their frames were smaller than the typical 35 or 40 mm frame and AM Solar Mount Adapters would not work

Apparently Rich Solar changed their suppliers. AM Solar's clips now work perfectly with Rich's 200 watt, 24v panels.

We've been using two 200 watt 24v Rich panels since June and are very happy with them. I've seen over 340 watts a couple of times in the history of our Victron 100/50 SCC.

On Thursday we leave for the Mississippi River Rendezvous and then are heading for two weeks in the Blue Ridge Mountain area, a week in northern Florida to see friends, and then wander back home sometime the 1st week of November. We'll have plenty of opportunity to see how quickly the 600 watts will fill our 200 ah's of lithiums.

Food for thought,

Perry

[BobG]

Originally Posted by Perry Butler

Apparently Rich Solar changed their suppliers. AM Solar's clips now work perfectly with Rich's 200 watt, 24v panels.

We've been using two 200 watt 24v Rich panels since June and are very happy with them. I've seen over 340 watts a couple of times in the history of our Victron 100/50 SCC.

Perry

I was disappointed when I discovered Rich panels wouldn't work. I thought they had good panels and I liked their technical support. That was a couple years ago.

Sometimes I see my panels put out more than their rated power. I understand that it happens when clouds not in front of the sun reflect light toward the panels. The first time it happened I didn't know what was going on. Johnny Hung told me about the clouds causing it and then I read a little about it.

Bob

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by BobG

Sometimes I see my panels put out more than their rated power. I understand that it happens when clouds not in front of the sun reflect light toward the panels. The first time it happened I didn't know what was going on. Johnny Hung told me about the clouds causing it and then I read a little about it.

The 160 watt Carmanah panel, that was on our Bigfoot when we purchased, put out over 160 watts many times last winter without the cloud phenomenon. Some manufacturers underrate their panels.

AM Solar explained that cloud phenomenon to me a couple of weeks ago when I was purchasing our last 200 watt Rich panel.

The main reason for adding the third panel was so I wouldn't have to deploy our 100 watt portable anymore. We'll still carry the portable though, just in case . . . . .

Food for thought,

Perry

[sameo416]

Been a while since I've seen such nice use of engineering paper! Nicely done.

[BobG]

I mention that I wired the solar panels in series. This is an important concept to understand so one can know how to incorporate parallel and series wiring for best results.

When using smaller panels like the 160 watt 16.8 volt panels I placed along the sides of the roof, there will almost always be some partial (P) shading from the A/C.

Here is a short video that explains why I did wire in series. Keep in mind my small panels are 16.8 volts, barely enough to trigger an MPPT controller connected to a 12 volt battery. In my case, I have a 24 volt battery so the panels would not work if wired in parallel.

Note, as explained in the video, there can also be an advantage to series wiring during low irradiance such as heavy overcast or the early and late hours of the day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3_lKIAcYsM

[BobG]

These are pictures of the output from 2x 210 watt panels connected in series with and without shading of 1 panel. Panel Vmp is 33 volts. Note that the voltage and the output in watts is very close to 1/2 when one panel has both strings of PV cells shaded. There is very little if any affect to the panel that is not shaded. If 1 strings of cells is shaded instead of both strings of the shaded panel, then the output of the shaded panel is reduced by 50% instead of by 100%. I just don't have a picture to show this. The panels have 2 bypass diodes each.

If the panels were connected in parallel instead of series to the MPPT controller and only the cells in 1 of the 2 strings of one panel were shaded, then the voltage from that panel would be about 16 volts while the other unshaded panel would be 33 volts. How do you think the MPPT controller would handle that? It would be interesting to find out but I am not going to rewire my panels to find out.

[beenzapped68]

Hello ko6dr, Just curious about how your solar panel install finished out.
I am in the process of adding 2 320w panels to our 5.0.
Any advice or lessons learned you would be willing to share?
Thanks
Ron

[jjdeluca]

Originally Posted by beenzapped68

Hello ko6dr, Just curious about how your solar panel install finished out.
I am in the process of adding 2 320w panels to our 5.0.
Any advice or lessons learned you would be willing to share?
Thanks
Ron

Hi Ron,
Just curious, which panels are you installing on your 5.0 and where on the roof will they be located? I've been following this thread as we're picking up our 5.0 next Monday & I'll be installing our solar in the coming weeks. I was planning on two 200 watt panels (Renogy, Rich Solar or Newpowa), but if a couple of 320watt panels will fit, I'll need to re-think my plans. Thanks
Jim

[beenzapped68]

Hi Jim,
We originally ordered our 5.0 with the solar package, two 200w panels and two 100ah hub lithium batteries.
We had a hail storm last summer which took out the solar panels, bathroom and refrigerator vents, and the escape hatch.
Insurance covered all that.
I actually purchased 3" aluminum angle and built frames for the new panels as I wasn't a real fan of the way they were originally mounted.
Had to have some other work done and decided I wanted to get larger PV panels.
I bought a pair of Renolgy 320w residential panels and am in the process of finishing installing them now.
The challenge has been utilizing the factory installed brackets to support the much larger panels.
Both panels are in the original ETI locations, they just are bigger.
Remember those aluminum frames?
had to take those apart and make them bigger.
now they fit the new panels. These are bolted to the original roof brackets, and I am making new brackets that will support the cantilevered section that will be bolted to the frames and stuck to the roof with 3M VHB Tape.
I expect everything to be quite solid.
I will post pictures when I have them on the roof.

[jjdeluca]

Sounds like quite a project! Good luck and I look forward to seeing your pictures.
Jim