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Old 06-05-2018, 11:00 PM   #21
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I don't have an inverter... but on my E21, those big red-n-black wires that exit the gooped hole, they A) aren't fused, and B) go to the power center.


IIRC, Escape offers a 1000 or 1200 watt inverter as an option? 1200 watts at 12 volts is 100 amps. you'd want 4 gauge wiring and probably a 150A fuse for that.
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Old 06-05-2018, 11:19 PM   #22
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That's the problem - more than 30 amps used (in total for all circuits) with only 30 amp capacity. Why would the main supply from the battery to all 12 V DC circuits have only 30 amp capacity? I suppose it makes sense for only 10 gauge wire, but it seems like an unnecessary restriction, given the loads which could be connected.
I don't know the answer to that one - the WF-8955 can supply up to 55 amps so why would the current from/to the battery be limited to 30 amps? Obviously, the wire size to the battery would have to be increased to 6 gauge to handle the full amp load but the small incremental cost of the wire shouldn't be a valid reason to limit the battery current.
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Old 06-05-2018, 11:23 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz View Post
I don't have an inverter... but on my E21, those big red-n-black wires that exit the gooped hole, they A) aren't fused, and B) go to the power center.


IIRC, Escape offers a 1000 or 1200 watt inverter as an option? 1200 watts at 12 volts is 100 amps. you'd want 4 gauge wiring and probably a 150A fuse for that.
Without a fuse on the positive (red) wire going to the trailer, if it happened to short to ground - the wire would melt and could cause a fire. It is usually installed as close to the battery post connection as possible.

My 21 came with a GoPower GP-HS1500 1500 watt inverter.
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Old 06-06-2018, 12:04 AM   #24
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Tom, thanks for clarifying where these cables go. I will just be mindful and keep an eye on that 30amp fuse. I have spares.

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Old 06-06-2018, 02:15 AM   #25
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I don't know the answer to that one - the WF-8955 can supply up to 55 amps so why would the current from/to the battery be limited to 30 amps?
I can only guess that the combination of 55 amp converter and only 30 amp wiring assumes that the full output of the converter is only used when there are currently active loads using at least 25 amps while the battery is charging at up to 30 amps. The assumption that charging current won't exceed 30 amps might not hold true when shore power is connected and the battery is deeply discharged, especially if there are not significant loads pulling the converter output down.

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Obviously, the wire size to the battery would have to be increased to 6 gauge to handle the full amp load but the small incremental cost of the wire shouldn't be a valid reason to limit the battery current.
I understand and appreciate not using excess material, but in this case as long as the wire run is short (it is in a 21', and reasonable in all models since the battery and converter are logically placed relative to each other), this seems like a good idea to me.
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Old 06-06-2018, 07:23 AM   #26
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Did ETI stop installing the metal breakers they had between the + and the 12v disconnect? I believe mine has a 50A and no fuse.
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Old 06-06-2018, 10:34 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
That's the problem - more than 30 amps used (in total for all circuits) with only 30 amp capacity. Why would the main supply from the battery to all 12 V DC circuits have only 30 amp capacity? I suppose it makes sense for only 10 gauge wire, but it seems like an unnecessary restriction, given the loads which could be connected.
Brian: A 12V marine wiring chart I looked at (10% voltage drop - "non-critical loads") allows 10 gauge wire to be used for up to 50 amps for up to 20' length (round trip). For critical applications (3% voltage drop) you would need 4 gauge. I would consider the Escape wiring a non-critical application. Is this possibly a case where the wrong fuse is being used? If it were me I would study the wire length and consider increasing that fuse to 40 amp. Is this a feasible approach?

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Did ETI stop installing the metal breakers they had between the + and the 12v disconnect? I believe mine has a 50A and no fuse.
That's a good question. Can't speak for all years/models but to the best of my knowledge older trailers have a 50A thermal fuse and no blade fuses by the battery. I moved our batteries so I've seen all the wiring.
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Old 06-06-2018, 11:13 AM   #28
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Brian: A 12V marine wiring chart I looked at (10% voltage drop - "non-critical loads") allows 10 gauge wire to be used for up to 50 amps for up to 20' length (round trip).
A 10% voltage drop seems to be a lot - for a 10 foot run of 10AWG wire, the voltage drop of 12 volts at the battery would be 11 volts at the fuse panel in the converter. Add in the additional voltage drops of the runs from the panel to the trailer devices and strange things start to happen.
http://www.calculator.net/voltage-dr...s=50&x=88&y=23

The fridge is a 30 amp circuit on my panel. Since it and the battery fuse are both 30 amp, we have what is known as a race condition - there is an even chance that in an over current condition, either or both fuses will blow.

It's starting to look like an area where another upgrade to the wiring is going to happen. I'm thinking 6AWG wire, a new battery cutoff switch, and a 60 amp inline fuse at the battery.

Oh, almost forgot! The 10AWG negative battery cable will need to be upgraded as well.
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Old 06-06-2018, 04:54 PM   #29
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Brian: A 12V marine wiring chart I looked at (10% voltage drop - "non-critical loads") allows 10 gauge wire to be used for up to 50 amps for up to 20' length (round trip). For critical applications (3% voltage drop) you would need 4 gauge. I would consider the Escape wiring a non-critical application. Is this possibly a case where the wrong fuse is being used? If it were me I would study the wire length and consider increasing that fuse to 40 amp. Is this a feasible approach?
It makes sense to me, and based on typical automotive practices something thinner than 6 gauge would be appropriate for 50 amps (especially high-temperature insulation), but I hesitate to suggest any smaller than traditional residential wire gauge to anyone else.
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Old 06-06-2018, 04:57 PM   #30
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Can't speak for all years/models but to the best of my knowledge older trailers have a 50A thermal fuse and no blade fuses by the battery.
Either a fuse or breaker can work, but as Tom explained it should be close to battery.
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Old 06-06-2018, 09:11 PM   #31
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It makes sense to me, and based on typical automotive practices something thinner than 6 gauge would be appropriate for 50 amps (especially high-temperature insulation), but I hesitate to suggest any smaller than traditional residential wire gauge to anyone else.
The 10 AWG with a 50 amp fuse would be OK for short circuit wire protection - the reverse polarity fuses are 40 amp. A 50 amp fuse would eliminate the race condition with the fridge fuse and make it a little more robust for whatever Fred is doing to pop the 30 amp fuse.

I still feel embarrassed that I ignored the fact that the main battery supply wire is a 10 gauge wire! I was spending so much time and money making sure that my solar install had the proper wire sizes to minimize voltage drops, I got tunnel vision and completely skipped the wiring from the battery to the trailer!

But it will get taken care of.
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Old 06-06-2018, 09:39 PM   #32
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The 10 AWG with a 50 amp fuse would be OK for short circuit wire protection - the reverse polarity fuses are 40 amp. A 50 amp fuse would eliminate the race condition with the fridge fuse and make it a little more robust for whatever Fred is doing to pop the 30 amp fuse.

I still feel embarrassed that I ignored the fact that the main battery supply wire is a 10 gauge wire! I was spending so much time and money making sure that my solar install had the proper wire sizes to minimize voltage drops, I got tunnel vision and completely skipped the wiring from the battery to the trailer!

But it will get taken care of.

Mine was 8 AWG from the battery to the 50 amp thermal fuse. When I moved the isolator switch I went ahead and changed it and the ground wire to four AWG since I added 3 1/3 feet to the wiring. Had the wire so figured why not.


I guess it depends on who wires the trailer what is done. I know whoever decided to use yellow 10 gauge barrel connectors to make splices in ours did not know what they were doing. I found multiple places where a 14 AWG would be in one side and 2 14 or 16 AWG wires would be in the other side and it was crimped with side cutters. A light tug pulled the wires right out. They would have worked if they had used a real crimp tool even though I would not have done it that way. That and wiring changing colors as it went through multiple splices and a type of connector I absolutely hate, which are all over the trailer.
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Old 06-08-2018, 12:52 PM   #33
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If you replace it and it doesn't blow, you may never know. I wouldn't up its value. It could be anything from a rained on connector, to something inside that momentarily touched. Or another common one is allowing the battery to get low. It can cause as charging surge when park power is first applied and fires up the 110VAC to 12VDC Converter/Charger.

Kind of like trying to jump start a vehicle with a really dead battery, using really light gauge jumper cables. They sometimes overheat and can catch on fire. (same as burning up the fuse)

You might want to explore replacing it with a auto resetting type 30amp 12V breaker that fits in the same base connector?
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Old 06-08-2018, 01:07 PM   #34
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You might want to explore replacing it with a auto resetting type 30amp 12V breaker that fits in the same base connector?

I may consider that option. Thanks!

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Old 06-08-2018, 01:22 PM   #35
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Or another common one is allowing the battery to get low. It can cause as charging surge when park power is first applied and fires up the 110VAC to 12VDC Converter/Charger.
You are correct that letting the battery charge get too low would cause the 30 amp fuse to blow - the 55 amp charger is trying to recharge the battery through a 30 amp fuse.

Why not size the fuse and wire correctly for the installed charger? The battery fuse is suppose to protect the wiring in case of a failure - not that you let the charge on the battery get low.
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Old 06-08-2018, 01:31 PM   #36
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Mine was 8 AWG from the battery to the 50 amp thermal fuse. When I moved the isolator switch I went ahead and changed it and the ground wire to four AWG since I added 3 1/3 feet to the wiring. Had the wire so figured why not.


I guess it depends on who wires the trailer what is done. I know whoever decided to use yellow 10 gauge barrel connectors to make splices in ours did not know what they were doing. I found multiple places where a 14 AWG would be in one side and 2 14 or 16 AWG wires would be in the other side and it was crimped with side cutters. A light tug pulled the wires right out. They would have worked if they had used a real crimp tool even though I would not have done it that way. That and wiring changing colors as it went through multiple splices and a type of connector I absolutely hate, which are all over the trailer.
The connectors you have a picture of are called scotch-locks by 3M. They are every mechanics nightmare. I plan on replacing every one of them I run into on our trailer after I retire. They are notorious for creating intermittent connections.
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Old 06-08-2018, 01:44 PM   #37
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The connectors you have a picture of are called scotch-locks by 3M. They are every mechanics nightmare. I plan on replacing every one of them I run into on our trailer after I retire. They are notorious for creating intermittent connections.

Casita was very fond of those connectors in 2010. After pulling my hair out chasing intermittent issues with the tail lights, and other lights, I pulled all the chases and re-wired the entire trailer using a good quality ratcheting crimper and dedicated heavy gauge ground wires for a few cicuits. NO issues since. Those scotch-lock connectors should be banned IMHO.
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Old 06-08-2018, 07:34 PM   #38
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Wow. Is it important to detach from tug power before hooking up to shore? (Iíve got the EMS protection systemówould that make a difference in this case?)
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Old 06-08-2018, 07:46 PM   #39
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Wow. Is it important to detach from tug power before hooking up to shore? (Iíve got the EMS protection systemówould that make a difference in this case?)
Jonathan
While not necessary, the EMS won't make any difference. I suppose there is a slight chance of the converter trying to charge both the tow vehicle battery & the trailer battery, but I hasn't been a problem (although I have to admit that both my tow vehicles had disconnect relays that shut down the charge line when the tow ignition was off).
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Old 06-08-2018, 08:06 PM   #40
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Thanks, Vermilye. My old teardrop had a disconnect inside it but not my Escape. Just gotta concentrate and remember--Creak, Creak!
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