Bouncing While Towing

[SouthernCamper]

Thank you everyone for the ideas, suggestions, and questions. Apparently I have notifications/emails turned off for the forum so I wasn't seeing all the updates.

We have the E2 by Fastway. This weekend I'll have my husband watch the videos and see if it needs adjusting.

I'm pretty ignorant as far as weight distribution other than that we travel very light. Do many travel with the water tank full? Is this much weight needed on the tongue to balance the weight of the camper itself or only if you load it with alot of stuff? It seems hard to load it down much, you can only fit so much! I feel like we don't travel with a lot of stuff, the fridge items and pantry are the heaviest things I think, and they're pretty much in the middle.

Thank you all for the input, and I'm excited about hopefully fixing the porpoising (I do love the word) and being able to take the Escape back to CO!

[UncleTim]

Originally Posted by SouthernCamper

You are too kind for all of your information and the invitation! Thank you!

We'll be staying in the national forests probably ahead of time, but for the procedure I'll need to be very close to Broomfield. I would LOVE any ideas on where we can stay for a few days near there. I've had trouble locating a spot nearby and we were going to wind up getting a hotel for a few days and just leave the camper in the parking lot like we did in July. Do you know any good spots to camp near there?

Can you tell me more about air bags? I've never heard of them. Can you use it with a WDH like the E2?

Boulder County and Broomfield (they are next to each other) does not have many good options.

On the plains you can try Boulder County Fairgrounds (I wouldn't) or St. Vrain S.P.. I have made a few posts about that park, which I do like. It is on the interstate (I-25). It is at least 20-30 minutes away from Broomfield.

In the mountains you could try Gross Reservoir, which is very pretty and about 30 minutes up the grade. Even farther up is Brainard Lakes National Recreation Area (my favorite), Rainbow Lakes, and Kelly Dahl, which is nice.

Unfortunately none of these are close to Broomfield or practical. The best choice is probably St. Vrain S.P. which allows highway travel to Broomfield, making it quicker. The hotel option is probably a good one, but I would probably opt for St. Vrain.

Air bags are used to cushion the weight of the trailer in order to help the truck/trailer to ride even. Tundras are known to sag when you load them with weight, so it was highly recommended I have Firestone air bags installed. I keep the pressure set at 20 psi. They go under the flatbed between axle and flatbed.

You can inflate then in the range of 5 to 100 psi, or close. They do help smooth out the ride and keep things from sagging. I don't know the first thing about WDH.

[cpaharley2008]

I keep the pressure set at 20 psi. They go under the flatbed between axle and flatbed.

You can inflate then in the range of 5 to 100 psi, or close. They do help smooth out the ride and keep things from sagging. I don't know the first thing about W

Mine are inside my rear coils and kept around 10 psi.....

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by SouthernCamper

Can you tell me more about air bags? I've never heard of them. Can you use it with a WDH like the E2?

you can use airbags and a WDH at the same time, but you need to get the adjustments right.

airbags are vehicle rear suspension specific. I installed them on my Toyota Tacoma 4x4, and I'm considering installing them on my F250, using a FIrestone Ride-Rite kit on the Taco, and probably on the F250 too.

a basic system has a tire valve style adapter for each side, usually mounted on the rear bumper near the license plate. you use a compressor or bike pump to inflate them to match your load. on the Tacoma, I found 30-40 PSI worked for maximum loads, and under normal running empty conditions, you keep them at 5 PSI. you can also get fancy systems with a built in compressor, and a dashboard control panel, these cost significantly more. as the airbags don't hold much volume, a good bicycle 'floor pump' will inflate them quite easily.

the general idea is, measure the height of the rear bumper of the truck when empty, then fully load, and measure it again, adding air til you get about the same height. you NEVER want to lift the back above that original height, just reduce the sag. if you do NOT use a WDH, then do the 'heavy' measurement with the trailer hitched up. if you DO use a WDH, do the 'heavy' measurement with the truck loaded but no trailer, *then* adjust the WDH per the manufacturers instructions.

[Jack!]

Originally Posted by SouthernCamper

Hi! We're driving from Louisiana to Colorado in a few months for a neck procedure, and I need help with reducing how towing our 2018 21' makes the ride so bouncy. Riding in my husband's 2013 Tundra TRD is just fine normally, but with the camper hooked up it bounces me so badly that I feel it won't be safe after my procedure, especially for 18 hours of riding home. I've ridden home from lesser procedures both with and without the camper and it's so much nicer without it. With my bigger procedure I need to either reduce the bounce or leave the camper behind

Is bouncing just inevitable or is there something that we can do to reduce it?

We travel with all liquid tanks empty, fridge pretty full (but not tons of heavy things) and personal items pretty well distributed high and low, front and back and no where near packed full.

Thank you so much for your insight. I'm going to be so bummed if we have to go up there without it!

Bounce & ride was a problem with our Casita which I believe had the same type of axle suspension as the Escape. We installed an aftermarket shock absorber kit that is available for Casita. The difference is huge. Much better ride and tow in all ways and well worth doing on a Casita. Don't know if Escape has a shock kit yet.

[mimie]

I pull my 2019 17B with a 2010 Tundra extra-cab 4WD, with a WDH. Longest trip was a quick haul from coast to coast, on mostly interstate. Pulled beautifully, and the ride felt as steady as if no trailer was in tow.
The 17B is a single axle trailer, and with the WDH, it “locked onto” the Tundra’s chassis; it was a seamless combo.
While the WDH certainly is more than really ‘required’ - I’m very glad to have it.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Jack!

Bounce & ride was a problem with our Casita which I believe had the same type of axle suspension as the Escape. We installed an aftermarket shock absorber kit that is available for Casita. The difference is huge. Much better ride and tow in all ways and well worth doing on a Casita. Don't know if Escape has a shock kit yet.

Yes, they're both Dexter Torflex #10. There never was a shock kit by Casita; it is an aftermarket product. The manufacturer of the kit looked at Escapes, but didn't put an Escape kit into production.

[SouthernCamper]

Originally Posted by Steven M

Is it the E2 by Fastway? As stated above it has bars to equalize the weight from the front to the back. If I remember correctly the top of the ball should be approximately 19 inches above the ground. If it is too high or too low it affects the handling of the tow vehicle and trailer.


EDIT: The Fastway company has a video on installation of the hitch and they say measure the trailer hitch top as the trailer is level and the ball should be at that height and no more than one inch above that.

We have the high lift axle, does this make a difference on how high it should be? I'm looking for the best video currently to show my husband, but I'm just wondering so I can let him know: so you're saying level the trailer unhitched and measure the trailer hitch top? I feel like I'm reading that wrong... should he hitch it then measure it? Then it's no longer level, right?

Help!

Thanks!

[SouthernCamper]

Originally Posted by George Johnson

I'm surprised no one has mentioned weight distribution within the trailer as a possible source of the porpoising problem. When loaded for travel, the weight on the tongue should be between 10 and 15% of the total loaded weight of the trailer. If the tongue weight is too light, there could be problems, even with a weight distribution hitch.

There are lots of posts regarding the importance of proper tongue weight.

Can you help me understand how this works from a practical application standpoint?

I don't really have an understanding of where the weight is distributed unloaded so as to balance it best while loading.

We travel with a full fridge, a pretty solid later of cans of food at the bottom of the pantry, and otherwise it's mostly just clothes and similarly weighted stuff distributed throughout storage. We do have the oven, AC, front tool box, and solar panels.

What should I keep in mind for balancing the weight to reach 10-15% of the total weight at the tongue?

Thank you so much!

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by SouthernCamper

I don't really have an understanding of where the weight is distributed unloaded so as to balance it best while loading.

We travel with a full fridge, a pretty solid later of cans of food at the bottom of the pantry, and otherwise it's mostly just clothes and similarly weighted stuff distributed throughout storage. We do have the oven, AC, front tool box, and solar panels.

What should I keep in mind for balancing the weight to reach 10-15% of the total weight at the tongue?

The trailer has about the right weight distribution when it is empty, so when loading you just want to maintain that - you don't have to "fix" the unloaded distribution by stacking your stuff at one end of the trailer.

The straightforward approach is to get a tongue weight scale of some sort (there are options) and check what you're doing as you load it or after a trial loading.

In addition to going for a suitable tongue weight fraction (which means keeping the average location of the load suitably ahead of the axle location), it helps stability to keep the load close to the middle of the trailer (front-back wise), and fortunately the refrigerator and pantry are close to the middle in all Escape floorplans.

[gbaglo]

And, place heavy items down low, light items up top.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by SouthernCamper

We have the high lift axle, does this make a difference on how high it should be? I'm looking for the best video currently to show my husband, but I'm just wondering so I can let him know: so you're saying level the trailer unhitched and measure the trailer hitch top? I feel like I'm reading that wrong... should he hitch it then measure it? Then it's no longer level, right?

Help!

Thanks!

level the trailer with its nose wheel on level ground, measure how high the tongue is, thats the TARGET for how high you want the ball to be. depending on how soft your vehicle suspension is (tacoma was very soft, f250 is very stiff), you want to start with the ball 1 or more inches higher than that.

first, load your truck like you would going camping. now assemble the WDH so the ball is 'somewhat' higher than the level hitch according to my unspecifiied suspension fudge factor. measure the height of the rear bumper of the truck, measure the height of the front bumper of the truck, write all this down, lets call these rear1, front1.... now drop the trailer onto the ball, retracting the nose jack, and measure the front and rear bumpers again, write THOSE down, rear2, front2. If you compare (rear1-rear2) and (front1-front2), the rear bumper undoubtedly sagged a lot more than the front.

hook up the WDH bar chains, measure the bumper heights again as rear3, front3. ideally you want it so these heights have the same difference from the original, so (rear1-rear3) is approximately equal (front1-front3), or no more than about 1 inch more in the rear than front. if its NOT equal or within 1 inch less, unhook the WDH chain bars, adjust the bar angle, try again, til you achieve the front spread, goal is for your truck to be sitting at the same level as it was loaded without the trailer, so that the front end isn't up in the air.

when its adjusted properly, the trailer should be level or slightly tongue low... if its way off, then move the hitch up or down and start over :-O

I know this seems kinda complicated, but you only need to go through it once unless your loading drastically changes.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

level the trailer with its nose wheel on level ground, measure how high the tongue is, thats the TARGET for how high you want the ball to be. depending on how soft your vehicle suspension is (tacoma was very soft, f250 is very stiff), you want to start with the ball 1 or more inches higher than that.

Absolutely

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

first, load your truck like you would going camping. now assemble the WDH so the ball is 'somewhat' higher than the level hitch according to my unspecifiied suspension fudge factor. measure the height of the rear bumper of the truck, measure the height of the front bumper of the truck, write all this down, lets call these rear1, front1....

Please use the heights at the axles (such as to the top of the fender opening) rather than bumper heights - it's axle loading that you're trying to control, not bumper height, and as the truck tilts there are not quite the same thing.

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

now drop the trailer onto the ball, retracting the nose jack, and measure the front and rear bumpers again, write THOSE down, rear2, front2. If you compare (rear1-rear2) and (front1-front2), the rear bumper undoubtedly sagged a lot more than the front.

Actually, the front of the truck will have gone up, not sagged down. The truck is a teeter-totter, pivoting on the rear axle, so pushing down on the rear with trailer weight raises the front of the truck.

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

hook up the WDH bar chains, measure the bumper heights again as rear3, front3. ideally you want it so these heights have the same difference from the original, so (rear1-rear3) is approximately equal (front1-front3), or no more than about 1 inch more in the rear than front. if its NOT equal or within 1 inch less, unhook the WDH chain bars, adjust the bar angle, try again, til you achieve the front spread, goal is for your truck to be sitting at the same level as it was loaded without the trailer, so that the front end isn't up in the air.

That conflicts with both the directions of every major weight-distributing hitch manufacturer, the vehicle manufacturers who publish WD adjustment directions (I think Ram is the only one I've seen), and good sense. Indeed, just read those instructions - they're usually quite clear and well illustrated.

The purpose of the WD system is not to level the truck, or to make each truck axle carry the same additional load. It is to avoid excessive load on the truck's rear axle, and to reduce or eliminate the reduction of load on the front axle. The target is to have the height at the front axle back to what it was without the trailer, or only slightly higher. The truck will likely be more level than without WD, which is also desirable.

The rear of the truck has far more load-carrying capacity than the front, and the design of the truck expects load to be added primarily to the rear. Forcing the front axle to carry as much additional load as the rear just doesn't make sense.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

That conflicts with both the directions of every major weight-distributing hitch manufacturer, the vehicle manufacturers who publish WD adjustment directions (I think Ram is the only one I've seen), and good sense. Indeed, just read those instructions - they're usually quite clear and well illustrated.

The purpose of the WD system is not to level the truck, or to make each truck axle carry the same additional load. It is to avoid excessive load on the truck's rear axle, and to reduce or eliminate the reduction of load on the front axle. The target is to have the height at the front axle back to what it was without the trailer, or only slightly higher. The truck will likely be more level than without WD, which is also desirable.

The rear of the truck has far more load-carrying capacity than the front, and the design of the truck expects load to be added primarily to the rear. Forcing the front axle to carry as much additional load as the rear just doesn't make sense.

my Tacoma specified near equal sag.

yes, the front springs are weaker than the rear (although they have the engine sitting across them), so for the rear to sag 3" and the front to sag 3" represents different amounts of weight on the axles.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

my Tacoma specified near equal sag.

Interesting... where? I assume that this was your 2008 Tacoma. I have two versions of the owners manual downloaded from Toyota for this model and year (OM35898U and OM35892U) and neither mentions anything about adjusting a weight-distributing hitch. They don't even mention the existence of WD hitches, and assume that the integrated bumper hitch will be used... but they do mentioned and implicitly allow fifth-wheel towing. Yes, they encourage carrying cargo relatively far forward; the very front of the cargo box is still closer to the rear axle than the front, and that's very different from using a spring-loaded prybar between the truck and trailer to force load onto the front axle.

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

yes, the front springs are weaker than the rear (although they have the engine sitting across them), so for the rear to sag 3" and the front to sag 3" represents different amounts of weight on the axles.

The wheel rate of the front springs might be lower than that of the rear, but the distinction is small - the load is still expected to be carried in the rear, which has far more payload capacity (difference between axle load at curb weight and gross axle weight rating) than the front.

[John in Santa Cruz]

yeah, it was my gen 2 2008 4x4 Access Cab TRD Off Road, which came with the factorry class 3 reciever, 6500 lb rated tow, and a factory 7 blade.. I think it might have been in a contemporary towing guide I found on tacomaworld.com or something.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

I think it might have been in a contemporary towing guide I found on tacomaworld.com or something.

Ah, the always authoritative internet....

[John in Santa Cruz]

the towing guide I saw was a Toyota publication. I just don't know off hand where it is.

[SouthernCamper]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

That conflicts with both the directions of every major weight-distributing hitch manufacturer, the vehicle manufacturers who publish WD adjustment directions (I think Ram is the only one I've seen), and good sense. Indeed, just read those instructions - they're usually quite clear and well illustrated.

The purpose of the WD system is not to level the truck, or to make each truck axle carry the same additional load. It is to avoid excessive load on the truck's rear axle, and to reduce or eliminate the reduction of load on the front axle. The target is to have the height at the front axle back to what it was without the trailer, or only slightly higher. The truck will likely be more level than without WD, which is also desirable.

The rear of the truck has far more load-carrying capacity than the front, and the design of the truck expects load to be added primarily to the rear. Forcing the front axle to carry as much additional load as the rear just doesn't make sense.

Ok so the previous step by step instruction was very helpful to me. I'm with you through the point of measuring a fixed point over the axle. What would you recommend doing after that? Following the remainder of the instructions but continuing with a goal of keeping both the front and rear fixed points over the axles level with their starting point?

Thanks!

[SouthernCamper]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

The trailer has about the right weight distribution when it is empty, so when loading you just want to maintain that - you don't have to "fix" the unloaded distribution by stacking your stuff at one end of the trailer.

The straightforward approach is to get a tongue weight scale of some sort (there are options) and check what you're doing as you load it or after a trial loading.

In addition to going for a suitable tongue weight fraction (which means keeping the average location of the load suitably ahead of the axle location), it helps stability to keep the load close to the middle of the trailer (front-back wise), and fortunately the refrigerator and pantry are close to the middle in all Escape floorplans.

aside from focusing load near the middle, how can I best use a tongue weight scale to check how it looks as we load it? so I guess we would check the tongue weight while empty, then would I first measure the weight of things before adding, then see how to tongue weight changes compared to the total weight of what I've added?

sorry for being thick I just want to be sure I get that right. thank you!