generator and AC to DC converter

[JaneH]

I have a 2008 17 foot Escape that I want to use in November and December for hunting in southern British Columbia. I can be away from electrical grid for a week or two at a time. I use the trailer for lighting, cooking and heating only. The key issue that I have faced in October is the battery running out of power, primarily due to the fan on the propane furnace. My plan this year is to top up the battery using a small generator when I get back from a day of hunting. I can charge the battery directly from the DC outlet on the generator or use the AC outlet and the AC to DC converter in the trailer. For example, the Honda generators EU1000i provides 6.5 amps and the EU2200i provides 8.3 amps off the DC outlet. Does anyone know what amperage the AC to DC converter on the trailer provides to the battery? For those who have tried it, will this work and what are the pitfalls. Thanks Dan

[gbaglo]

I have a 2009 17B and a Honda EU1000i. Can't give you numbers, but it takes a long time to charge my single 12V Trojan battery. I generally leave the Honda at home and charge with two Coleman 40-watt solar panels ( on sale Canadian Tire ), which also take time, but you don't have to listen to them.

[Centex]

IME with my 2005 Casita (likely very similar converter to that in your '08 Escape 17) and an EU2000i you'll do hands-down much better plugging the trailer into the generator 110V outlet and letting the trailer's converter charge the battery. I don't have numbers handy but I 'field tested' this comparison long, long ago.

My 2005 Casita's OE converter is a Parallax 7345 rated 45A@12VDC output with 30A@120VAC input; I have no idea how much the DC output is de-rated with lower-amps AC input.

My old EU2000i is rated 13.3A@120VAC / 8A@12VDC. My Casita lacking any built-in EMS does just fine plugged directly to the EU2000i without any neutral bonding plug on the generator (appropriate cord>socket adaptor of course).

The trailer converter DC output will be limited by the generator's AC output (being <30 amps input the trailer converter can handle) but will certainly do better than ~6.x~8.x amps from the mentioned generators' DC outlet. BTDT for many extended off-grid excursions.

Yes, it can take a while on the genny to fully 'top-up' the battery but of course that's totally dependent on it's state of charge / degree of depletion at the end of each day. Minimize your other 12VDC trailer loads while on the genny to help it go quicker.

Don't forget the simple adaptor you'll need between the Escape 30A shore power cord and the genny's outlet!

Happy Hunting, Have Fun!

(PS - readers are welcome to substitute "inverter" for "generator" in reference to Honda EU####i if my use of that term bothers them )

[Brian B-P]

The Escape's converter is rated at 55 amps of output. Just as with Alan's Casita, the battery will charge much more quickly using the converter than using the generator's DC output.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by JaneH

I have a 2008 17 foot Escape that I want to use in November and December for hunting in southern British Columbia. I can be away from electrical grid for a week or two at a time. I use the trailer for lighting, cooking and heating only. The key issue that I have faced in October is the battery running out of power, primarily due to the fan on the propane furnace. My plan this year is to top up the battery using a small generator when I get back from a day of hunting. I can charge the battery directly from the DC outlet on the generator or use the AC outlet and the AC to DC converter in the trailer. For example, the Honda generators EU1000i provides 6.5 amps and the EU2200i provides 8.3 amps off the DC outlet. Does anyone know what amperage the AC to DC converter on the trailer provides to the battery? For those who have tried it, will this work and what are the pitfalls. Thanks Dan

Dan: My father camps up near Lake Erie for about a month late Oct to late Nov while steelhead fishing. Low sun and many cloudy days so solar isn’t the most effective. He runs a Honda EU2000i when he returns to camp in the evening. Open field with no one around to bother. Using the traditional generator AC outlet to feed the trailer is better for multiple reasons. First the onboard converter/charger in an Escape typically has (at least on paper) a 55A DC output. That is much better than the Honda’s direct DC output. Secondly the WFCO is a three-stage charger (again...at least on paper) and will treat the battery better than the unregulated output direct from the Honda. Unless you are monitoring it you risk overcharging the battery. However, there are complaints that the stock WFCO unit never goes into bulk charging so that will slow down your charging. If you want a nice charger upgrade consider the Progressive Dynamics main board replacement that I and a few others have installed. It has a charge wizard that allows you to force the mode if needed. Direct link here:
https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...tml#post237217

By the way, direct DC charging from gen might be moot anyhow if you are buying new. I am under the impression that the direct DC charging capability is now omitted on the EU1000i and EU2200i so that Honda could incorporate the CO-Minder carbon monoxide detector.

On a related note I think Alan (Centex) may have the 30A rating of the power center main distribution confused with the actual AC input requirement of only the charger portion. On a WFCO-8955 for example the max AC input is 11A. The Honda EU2200i has no problem producing this at its rated 15A current. On the other hand a Honda EU1000i would be beyond its 7.5A continuous / 8.3A maximum ratings. This would put the generator into overload. From experience a Honda EU2200i will work well to charge the battery in your situation as long as you will not have any other major loads running simultaneously.

Another aspect you didn’t mention is your battery capacity. Could you increase your usable amp-hours so you are recharging less often?

[Centex]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

... On a related note I think Alan (Centex) may have the 30A rating of the power center main distribution confused with the actual AC input requirement of only the charger portion. On a WFCO-8955 for example the max AC input is 11A. ....

You're too kind (or tactful), Dave. I'll admit outright ignorance of the distinction you point out, so I appreciate the correction and continuing education!

[Hawkeye Ed]

Dan wants to know if he can use the DC output of a Honda generator to charge his batteries. I've read various places online that the DC output of those generators is unregulated and therefore not a good idea except for emergency charging of a dead vehicle battery (and you have to run the generator at full throttle). Using the AC output of the generator to charge through the camper's converter is a much better solution, assuming the generator is capable of powering the converter without overloading.

Once I tried to recharge my batteries with the camper's built-in 55 amp charger by hooking up my Honda EU1000i. The generator overloaded and shut down because the generator is rated 120V 1000W max. (8.3A) 900W continuous rated (7.5A). The WFCO Model WF-8955 is rated at 55 Amps DC output but the input is 940W which is more than the continuous rating of the generator under the best of conditions and leaves no room for any other current draws.

My suggestion is to buy a separate battery charger if you can't use the larger Honda 2000i or 2200i to charge through your camper's converter.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye Ed

Once I tried to recharge my batteries with the camper's built-in 55 amp charger by hooking up my Honda EU1000i. The generator overloaded and shut down because the generator is rated 120V 1000W max. (8.3A) 900W continuous rated (7.5A). The WFCO Model WF-8955 is rated at 55 Amps DC output but the input is 940W which is more than the continuous rating of the generator under the best of conditions and leaves no room for any other current draws.

This agrees exactly with what I stated above but I was just basing it off the numbers and my experience with the EU2000i. Great to have real-world insight from someone who actually tried to charge with a EU1000i / WFCO-8955 combination. This should be very valuable information for the OP so he has an effective solution and doesn't waste time and money. 2000W generator at a minimum.

[JaneH]

Thank you all for your excellent input! I learned a great deal from your comments. Mostly I learned there was a lot more to understand. I am new to generators and converters and spent yesterday educating myself. Can I ask you one more favour? (Canadian spelling, though I am torn as I was born in Oakland, California.) Can you check my approach and make sure I am not doing something stupid?

Background:
I have a Progressive Dynamics converter PD4635 in my Escape. The original Parallax (45 Amp) was replaced in Omak, Washington in February 2014. The repair shop only had a 35 amp PD converter in stock.
Its specs are
Input: 105-130 VAC Output: 13.6 VDC
50/60 Hz 35 Amps
550 watts

Approach:
1. A generator is a good choice to use in November and December when the daylight hours are short and the weather is often overcast.
2. Use the AC off the generator and run it through the trailer's converter. It is both more efficient and safer. Use the DC off the generator directly to the battery only in emergency situations. Make sure I have a large capacity deep discharge battery. (I have two)
3. The generator must supply sufficient watts to run the converter. I am planning on using a Honda EU2200i with 1800 watts of continuous power.
4. To improve the charging time. Use a Charge Wizard (Progressive Dynamics term). I have one on my PD4635 (Boost mode 14.4 VDC, Normal mode13.6 VDC, Storage Mode 13.2 VDC)

Thanks Again for your help! Dan

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by JaneH

Thank you all for your excellent input! I learned a great deal from your comments. Mostly I learned there was a lot more to understand. I am new to generators and converters and spent yesterday educating myself. Can I ask you one more favour? (Canadian spelling, though I am torn as I was born in Oakland, California.) Can you check my approach and make sure I am not doing something stupid?

Background:
I have a Progressive Dynamics converter PD4635 in my Escape. The original Parallax (45 Amp) was replaced in Omak, Washington in February 2014. The repair shop only had a 35 amp PD converter in stock.
Its specs are
Input: 105-130 VAC Output: 13.6 VDC
50/60 Hz 35 Amps
550 watts

Approach:
1. A generator is a good choice to use in November and December when the daylight hours are short and the weather is often overcast.
2. Use the AC off the generator and run it through the trailer's converter. It is both more efficient and safer. Use the DC off the generator directly to the battery only in emergency situations. Make sure I have a large capacity deep discharge battery. (I have two)
3. The generator must supply sufficient watts to run the converter. I am planning on using a Honda EU2200i with 1800 watts of continuous power.
4. To improve the charging time. Use a Charge Wizard (Progressive Dynamics term). I have one on my PD4635 (Boost mode 14.4 VDC, Normal mode13.6 VDC, Storage Mode 13.2 VDC)

Thanks Again for your help! Dan

I was going to ask what converter/charger you had. Proves again never safe to assume. Even at 550W I would go with the EU2200i. It is more versatile and it will not have to run as hard. Sounds like you are all set!

(P.S. only if you have a built-in EMS/Surge Protector (like the Progressive Industries HW30C) you will need a neutral bonding plug for one of the unused outlets on the generator or you will get an open ground error. Or you can put it in bypass. If you don't have an EMS just ignore this comment)

[TahoeJoe]

I just got back from a 3-week trip to the Cali coast where I was off grid the whole time, and I don't have any solar yet (working on adding it soon). I have a 3000W generator, which is overkill for my 5.0 but it was leftover from when I had a giant Arctic Fox trailer. I ran it every day just to charge the batteries, through the same Progressive Dynamics converter you have, except mine is the 55 amp version. I found I did not need to override the charge mode at all, it automatically detected when to put in boost vs normal (I watched the status of it). But I found I did have to put my EMS in bypass mode, otherwise I got an error (strangely, my error was a data link error and not the ground error, not sure why, I was planning on calling Progressive to learn more about that).

This all worked great, the only downside being my 3k gennie is a bit on the loud side. If I didn't have that already, I'd get a smaller and quieter 2k one, which would be plenty for battery charging. I do like that mine is dual fuel, I run it on propane which is nice because I already like to carry an extra propane tank anyway, and this way I don't have to carry or fill any gas tanks. You get a slightly lower wattage output, but it's still enough for this purpose. If you could find a dual-fuel 2k gennie, I'd recommend that.