Lithium Battery Recommendation

[dstreight]

If you have decent electro-mechanical skills, you might also look at building your own battery using Prismatic, pouch, etc., cells with a BMS. This route also gives you a little more packaging flexibility too. This is the route I went a few years ago for our all electric 15A project (7500Wh battery).

You can find lightly used cells on eBay at a good discount or new here: https://www.electriccarpartscompany....ncased-Battery

And here for cells and/or BMS: https://overkillsolar.com/shop/

If you camp well into the shoulder sun months and/or low sun angle winter months be sure to factor this calculation into the battery capacity size you will need...assuming you're not plugged into the grid...ditto solar

[Semievolved]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Don’t rule out Bestgo…very well made and they have several sizes depending on what you are looking for. We have the 400AH version and it has served us well so far
https://www.electriccarpartscompany....-battery-packs
https://www.bestgobattery.com/

I echo Rubicon here. 400Ah bestgo tested at 430ah only taking it down to 11.2v. extremely well designed and manufactured. Internal bms will not allow battery to charge as temps approach 0⁰C and also protect against over current.
Mine was $1980.
I've designed a simple thermostatically controlled battery heater I'm happy to share. It's much cheaper than the heated battle Borns for example and it's been very effective at maintaining battery temp at 40⁰F with ambient temps well below freezing. The unit I use can also be used for low and high voltage cutoffs when paired with a step-up relay and 12v contactor(s). Much easier than it sounds.

[drjp]

Originally Posted by Sean Murry

I went with Battle Born Batteries from Nevada. Work well for me. Their BMS does have a low temperature cut off.

Two Battleborns in our 2021 5.0. Working great.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Semievolved

I echo Rubicon here. 400Ah bestgo tested at 430ah only taking it down to 11.2v. extremely well designed and manufactured. Internal bms will not allow battery to charge as temps approach 0⁰C and also protect against over current.

What good would this be for folks like me when very often when camping overnight temperatures go below 0°C? Daytime does usually warm up to 10° or so, but not always.

Am I right in understanding then that lithium batteries are not good for use in Canada where freezing temps are often seen during camping season, especially in the fall. As well, temps get way colder in winter months.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

What good would this be for folks like me when very often when camping overnight temperatures go below 0°C? Daytime does usually warm up to 10° or so, but not always.

Am I right in understanding then that lithium batteries are not good for use in Canada where freezing temps are often seen during camping season, especially in the fall. As well, temps get way colder in winter months.

if your batteries are inside the trailer, like they are on my 21C where they are under the dinette benches), I wouldn't worry about it unless you let your trailer get below freezing *inside*. With just the light load of running my compressor fridge and furnace or ventilation fans, my batteries stay several degrees warmer than inside ambient.

Do note, lead acid batteries also lose capacity at below freezing temps, so a 220AH golf cart battery pair might be under 150 AH at freezing temps.

[chesaka]

My LifrBlue low-temp will continue to charge at minus 5 degrees fahrenheit.

[Semievolved]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

What good would this be for folks like me when very often when camping overnight temperatures go below 0°C? Daytime does usually warm up to 10° or so, but not always.

Am I right in understanding then that lithium batteries are not good for use in Canada where freezing temps are often seen during camping season, especially in the fall. As well, temps get way colder in winter months.

As John in Santa Cruz said, when you're camping you don't typically let the cabin temp down near freezing, although I've been known to on occasion and that's when I appreciate the thermostatically controlled battery heater. And, if you're in the camper, you can certainly monitor the temp and raise it if the battery is getting under 40F. A battery warmer that only turns on when the batt temps approach 40 is a very cost and energy efficient way to keep the battery chargeable. If it's cold and we're not camping, I just disconnect the solar (it's switched) since I don't want the battery charging in storage anyway and then turn on the heater for a day or so to make sure the battery is warm enough before turning the solar back on. It's ok to discharge the battery unless it's way below zero F.

[splitting_lanes]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

What good would this be for folks like me when very often when camping overnight temperatures go below 0°C? Daytime does usually warm up to 10° or so, but not always.

Am I right in understanding then that lithium batteries are not good for use in Canada where freezing temps are often seen during camping season, especially in the fall. As well, temps get way colder in winter months.

Worth noting that the thing you can’t do below freezing (without accommodations) is charge the batteries. You can discharge them when it’s cold/freezing. Just gotta have the internal cell temperature above freezing to charge at any reasonable rate.

[CE Vogel]

Hello neighbor, I live 80 miles north of you in Battle Ground, WA. I installed three Renogy 100AH batteries after having the same concerns as you. The Renogy batteries have full thermal management including two low temperature cutoffs (charge & discharge), which activated during the cold snap last winter. They are rated at 100 amp discharge, so my three batteries in parallel provide 300 amps, more than enough for your inverter. The Renogy Smart battery RBT100LFP12-US allows direct connection to the BMS using the Renogy RMS-LFPS-US monitor, providing charge status, estimated time to discharge, voltage, and pushbutton ability to turn the batteries on or off from inside your trailer. The monitor isn't as flexible as a full Victron monitor, but for $60 it is plenty good and a lot less complicated to wire in.
Renogy does offer a self heating Smart battery, and yes, the heating capability does draw power from the battery. I don't think its necessary for our climate.

[CE Vogel]

Jim, unless you can mount your batteries in a conditioned space, LIthium would not be a good fit for continuous sub-freezing weather. They can't charge below freezing, and they can't discharge below about 4 degrees F. However, they are safe to mount indoors so that is an option you could consider.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

if your batteries are inside the trailer, like they are on my 21C where they are under the dinette benches), I wouldn't worry about it unless you let your trailer get below freezing *inside*. With just the light load of running my compressor fridge and furnace or ventilation fans, my batteries stay several degrees warmer than inside ambient.

Do note, lead acid batteries also lose capacity at below freezing temps, so a 220AH golf cart battery pair might be under 150 AH at freezing temps.

My trailer would not get to freezing inside while in use so that would be a plus for performance while using it. I was concerned more with their ability to maintain themselves while stored here in the winter, though actually draw would be very minimal. I was also wondering about failure in freezing temps due to hearing about no use below freezing. I have only used lead acid and AGM (which is in the truck and trailer).

Originally Posted by Semievolved

As John in Santa Cruz said, when you're camping you don't typically let the cabin temp down near freezing, although I've been known to on occasion and that's when I appreciate the thermostatically controlled battery heater. And, if you're in the camper, you can certainly monitor the temp and raise it if the battery is getting under 40F. A battery warmer that only turns on when the batt temps approach 40 is a very cost and energy efficient way to keep the battery chargeable. If it's cold and we're not camping, I just disconnect the solar (it's switched) since I don't want the battery charging in storage anyway and then turn on the heater for a day or so to make sure the battery is warm enough before turning the solar back on. It's ok to discharge the battery unless it's way below zero F.

The blanket sounds interesting. We do not put the heat on normally during the day in colder weather unless we are inside, and set it about `15°C in the evening. It would be interesting to monitor what the temperatures actually are under the dinette seats when cold out.

Originally Posted by splitting_lanes

Worth noting that the thing you can’t do below freezing (without accommodations) is charge the batteries. You can discharge them when it’s cold/freezing. Just gotta have the internal cell temperature above freezing to charge at any reasonable rate.

Thanks, that helps my understanding.

Originally Posted by CE Vogel

Jim, unless you can mount your batteries in a conditioned space, LIthium would not be a good fit for continuous sub-freezing weather. They can't charge below freezing, and they can't discharge below about 4 degrees F. However, they are safe to mount indoors so that is an option you could consider.

When I do need a battery change I will look carefully at using lithium.