wow- solar blew off!

[ATHiker]

Originally Posted by Rossue

Good question. Originally I was talking with them about doing the tilt-up, yet it was going to entail abandoning the original mounts. I determined we did not need that, and would need a ladder to utilize. Then, with the panel in place their mounts weren't tall enough. Had a local fabricator make 4" X 4" brackets; cost was $40.
The ETI brackets probably would have worked, however they were designed for bolt through and I felt having a larger footprint was a good idea for a small cost.

Edit: I just cleaned the gel coat very well and used a Scotch 3M scouring pad.

Used this tape from Amazon: 3M VHB Tape 4950, 3 in width x 4 in length (Pack of 12). Cost $22.

Thanks for the reply. I really like your solution and I will look into getting some brackets fabricated.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

Rubbing alcohol has "grades." The stuff you can buy off-the-shelf at a drug store... to the stuff that's a much higher grade. Huummm, in a pinch I wonder how well "Everclear" would work? If you're talking about "alcohol."

Without getting too sciency, let me go back to my days as a formulist and colorist at a paint company. For surface prep of gelcoat, Isopropyl alcohol would be better than ethyl alcohol. It's a slightly longer molecule chemically, it evaporates better and there's no chance of leaving a residue as with ethyl alcohol. Denatured alcohol (or wood alcohol as it's sometimes called) would not be as suitable either, mainly because it's just ethyl alcohol that's been poisoned with either methanol or isopropyl alcohol so you won't drink it.

As for grades, that usually just consists of the alcohol/water/additive ratio.

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[Rossue]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

Rubbing alcohol has "grades." The stuff you can buy off-the-shelf at a drug store... to the stuff that's a much higher grade. Huummm, in a pinch I wonder how well "Everclear" would work? If you're talking about "alcohol."

Uh, huh....just ask the Bong Boyz. Cheap-oh stuff in the 80% range in drugstores, however they do offer 94% too.

[float5]

I located the person who made the comment about alcohol. What he is now saying is that, yes, alcohol can be used but he is saying to use it after another product such as Simple Green to remove surface dirt.

I can only guess that he did not consider alcohol alone to be sufficient on what would be many often very dirty trailers. Perhaps people would use alcohol and still not have a clean surface, and that could cause VHB to lift off. So he recommended other things that would clean filthy trailers better in one cleaning, I guess.

In another words, clean the area very well and then use the alcohol. Don't clean with the alcohol as many might do and then say your panel came off.

Yep, if I have read something to clean with alcohol, that is all I have used, just as with 3M hooks. Even 3M may not know enough about (dirty) fiberglass trailers.

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

According to reports by multiple owners (in this thread and others), the original Escape mounting adhesive was not VHB or any other brand of tape at all: it was epoxy.

I think the very early ones were epoxy and then sometime in 2013 ETI switched to VHB tape, my 2014 had the tape set up. It was these units that ETI sent out the bolt on kits, and it appears that is what was used on the op's 2014 solar factory install as seen in post #92.

[float5]

Yes, Escape has used about everything by now and believe they had panels come off with the previous methodS. Glad we have bolts.

[float5]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I rarely watch online videos - they're just not worth the time and the mobile network data. I do read reference documents from authoritative sources. The VHB tape used by AM Solar and by Ross is made by 3M, so I think what they have to say is worth reading:
Surface Preparation for 3M™ VHB™ Tape Applications

In summary, it says to use a 50:50 solution of isopropyl alcohol (IPA, not ethanol) in water. Removal of grease is important; if a solvent is needed for de-greasing, it should be followed by the IPA solution. The electrician appears to be completely incorrect....

Like many other manufacturers, 3M provides a substantial body of technical information, based on solid science and years of development. Why not use it?

As I said, without knowing the reason for a comment, a person may not be wrong at all. I gave the explanation on the alcohol comment in another post. Seems he knows exactly what he is talking about on panels being installed on trailers, even better than 3M would, because that is his business.

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I think the very early ones were epoxy and then sometime in 2013 ETI switched to VHB tape, my 2014 had the tape set up. It was these units that ETI sent out the bolt on kits, and it appears that is what was used on the op's 2014 solar factory install as seen in post #92.

My ETI rails were set in a bed of epoxy. I think they are solid, however chose to reinforce them with a proven method rather than have four more holes with bolts dripping condensation into the interior as has been previously reported.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by float5

As I said, without knowing the reason for a comment, a person may not be wrong at all. I gave the explanation on the alcohol comment in another post.

Ah, so I should correct my statement: the electrician is not completely wrong; what we were told he said was completely wrong:

Originally Posted by float5

... He is a certified marine master electrician. He says never to use alcohol but to use mineral spirits, brake cleaner or the like. Apparently, AM Solar does not say this even though he installs for them and will not use it.

Originally Posted by float5

Seems he knows exactly what he is talking about on panels being installed on trailers, even better than 3M would, because that is his business.

My bet is that over several decades 3M staff in the course of their business have installed equipment on fiberglass surfaces and tested them exhaustively far more than this one installer... but since it turns out that he is following 3M's (and AM Solar's) directions, he may indeed be competent.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I think the very early ones were epoxy and then sometime in 2013 ETI switched to VHB tape, my 2014 had the tape set up.

Thanks, Jim.

[float5]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Ah, so I should correct my statement: the electrician is not completely wrong; what we were told he said was completely wrong.

My bet is that over several decades 3M staff in the course of their business have installed equipment on fiberglass surfaces and tested them exhaustively far more than this one installer... but since it turns out that he is following 3M's (and AM Solar's) directions, he may indeed be competent.

I am not sure how you came to the conclusion that what I told you was completely wrong or wrong at all. I said what he said, and then what he is saying now--- two comments he made at different times which were both reported by me, the second after the reason on the first was unknown. And again, he is an installler for AM Solar.

Seems to me that he has made a very valuable point that some people could use here. I am glad to give such information to those who want it. I would have only used alcohol, as I am sure many others would.

Again, he is saying not to rely on cleaning with alcohol. Use something else first, then you can use alcohol (on your hopefully already clean surface).

No, I don't think 3M deals specifically with dirty fiberglass trailers. His caution is no doubt from experience of having people not get their trailer points clean enough with only alcohol. Apparently realizing that, he said to use other cleaners instead. But if you then use alcohol, fine. This is for those who can use the information. I may even use it myself some day so it was worth looking into it for me. Maybe I should have kept it to myself.

[Greg A]

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

According to reports by multiple owners (in this thread and others), the original Escape mounting adhesive was not VHB or any other brand of tape at all: it was epoxy.

It depends on "how original". I had a 2011 Escape 17B with a 95 watt panel that was attached with VHB tape. I'm not sure when they switched to epoxy.

[ATHiker]

When I secure my solar panel, are there pro's / con's related to the sealant used. ProFlex vs Dicor. Is one easier to apply; does one have a longer life; etc?

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by ATHiker

When I secure my solar panel, are there pro's / con's related to the sealant used. ProFlex vs Dicor. Is one easier to apply; does one have a longer life; etc?

That answer will vary depending on who you ask. It usually comes down to preference. I like the Dicor self leveling stuff because I find it a bit easier to work with. For transparent applications I also like the Lexel clear for its strong adhesion and permanence, but it is a bear to work with unless you move quickly.

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[float5]

Well, I could tell you what one solar company uses and that someone else uses Sika-Flex but never mind. Don't want to start on that. You might want to look around the Internet at solar companies and some other forums.

[Rossue]

If I remember correctly AM uses Sikaflex on aluminum and Dicor self leveling lap sealant (what I used) on the rest.

[PGDriver]

I wasn't going to mention it but what the heck. If I was attaching a solar panel to the roof I would use urethane under the feet and run a capping bead of Sikaflex around them. This would be permanent and a pain to remove if required. Anyone who has worked as a glazier will understand.


Cheers
Doug

[padlin]

I've used Proflex RV on vertical surfaces, windows and such, and Dicor on horizontals. To me Dicor flows better, probably too much for side walls.

I was trying to think why you need something like Dicor if you haven't penetrated the roof as in Ross's install. Looks nice but does it serve a purpose? Does VHB tape lose it's hold if it gets wet?

If you are making roof penetrations, a layer of Eternabond under the mounts might be worth considering before drilling. Then Dicor over the whole foot to keep out water.

[padlin]

Originally Posted by PGDriver

I wasn't going to mention it but what the heck. If I was attaching a solar panel to the roof I would use urethane under the feet and run a capping bead of Sikaflex around them. This would be permanent and a pain to remove if required. Anyone who has worked as a glazier will understand.


Cheers
Doug

Can you explain for those of us who weren't glaziers?