Behavior of turbocharged engines when towing

[CasparScape]

Not seeing this truck mentioned, I thought I would share. My 2021 chevy Silverado 1500 duramax turbodiesel towing E-19 averages a solid 15 mpg, considering mts, flats, and no real effort to drive slowly. This is loaded trailer and 17 ft canoe on the truck rack. Amazingly, I get 30+ mpg highway when not towing, 23 mpg average around town. I really hated to part with my 2000 V-8 Tundra, but even new Tundras still lack serious tow and cargo capacity, and mileage is still embarrassingly low.

[ericbirk]

I currently drive a 2019 3.5Eco w/ 10spd as a work vehicle, I had a 2014 3.5Eco prior. I got rid of my '14 at around 125k km's, and my '19 just turned over 100k km's. Prior to that I had 3 F350's that drove all around the province at legal limit GVW without needing to run a log book. Those trucks were pretty tough. Neither had major engine related issues. The '14 killed a coil but that's minor. Both had the vacuum hub system crap out, but that system is junk... Ford's "fix" is to supply vacuum plugs/caps to disable the system.

The 10spd helps significantly with mileage but it is not a smooth transmission at all, especially when cold. Its quite clunky. Drives me crazy. Also hunts to find a gear occasionally. When I brough it in for the vacuum hub issue, I mentioned this to the dealer and they told me "oh, that's normal."

They also don't seem to like really cold weather... we had a 1 week span of -35 to -40°C. The 2014 would not start... it would crank and sputter and die. My friends 2015 was the same. I plugged it in for 24hrs, still no start. My friend tried for so long he ended up having raw fuel coming out of the exhaust...
Both my '95 LandCruiser and our 2008 Highlander (sold since then) started without issue.

Our company has recently made the decision to go away from Ecoboosts due to some maintenance/reliability issues. I haven't dug into this, so take it with a bit of grey. The Eco's will very likely have more major issues with a lack of maintenance than a big lumbering v8, but you can't blame the truck when the guy driving it doesn't take care of it.

The Ecoboost does have gobs of low end torque. It drives very similar to a diesel and can lug way down. Mileage is also very good for a 1/2 ton truck.

Now, do I own any of these personally, nope. I am a Toyota guy through and through. That's based on years of offroad builds and wrenching on my own stuff. Current fleet is a 1995 Land Cruiser, and a 2015 GX460. For me reliability has always been the most important, and any of the Ford's I have had can't touch the Toyota's.

My '95 LC has 150k miles on it, is full armoured, winch, lockers, and on 37" rubber. It drives down the highway, climbs up a mountain, and comes back. I have had parts related issues, but none of those were factory Toyota related parts with the exception of a hp power steering line.
The GX has 125k km's on it and drives butter smooth. It is the primary tow vehicle for our 17b and tows through the Rockies from Alberta to BC without issue.

Neither of the Toyota's get anywhere near the mileage the Ecoboost is capable of though, and neither are as quick. Especially the LandCruiser, she's a brick hahaha.

I took this into left field as you originally asked about turbocharged engines vs towing. Mainly to explain my history with both and reliability and build quality.

Turbocharged engines are more efficient, period. This becomes even more visible at elevation. The turbo/direct injection allow for a very flat torque curve allowing for low rpm pulls. The majority of people don't like to rev out engines. I don't either, if I can avoid it, but if I know the engine is well built, well designed, and maintained I have no problem running up the rev's as needed. The GX does need to rev past 4k when pulling the trailer up the bigger hills if I want to maintain speed, but I'm not worried as that 4.6 V8 is one of the best engines Toyota made.

Sorry this post is a bit of a ramble. I'm writing this on my phone while waiting for a doc appointment.

[advenas]

All I can say is I'm extremely happy with my 2021 F150 and the 10spd transmission with the 3.5 Ecoboost. Smooth, plenty of power, great gas mileage and easy towing of my Escape 17B. Do your regular scheduled oil changes and maintenance and it should last a good long time. Absolutely no regrets about my buying it.

[dlakeman]

This thread discussion seems to be focused on MPG. What about stability when towing with the Tacoma vs. the F-150? A person bought my 21C and tried towing with his Tacoma. Uphill and high winds are a real safety concern. The person who bought my 21C sold his Tacoma and bought my F-150. He's really happy.

[SageRpod]

The lady down the street from us purchased a Wolf Pup about three years ago. She originally pulled it with her existing Toyota Highlander. The Highlander was replaced shortly there after by a Tacoma which she used up until a few weeks ago when a new Tundra showed up in her driveway. Safety was her biggest concern and reason for ultimately going full size. As an older, single female traveler, she was completely bought into the "travel small" image but quickly realized she needed to have a full size pickup to meet her safety expectations.

[Selkirk]

Originally Posted by dlakeman

This thread discussion seems to be focused on MPG. What about stability when towing with the Tacoma vs. the F-150? A person bought my 21C and tried towing with his Tacoma. Uphill and high winds are a real safety concern. The person who bought my 21C sold his Tacoma and bought my F-150. He's really happy.

So far, I've found my Tacoma to feel quite stable when towing my 19 with the ETI-supplied Fastway E2 WD Hitch. I've traveled in some very steep/twisty mountain terrain, as well as areas known for high cross winds.....and have yet to encounter a situation where the tail felt like it was wagging the dog. My truck has a manual transmission, which I think really helps with controlling speed on long downhill grades.

However, I do feel that the 19 is approaching the limits of what my truck can tow safely. I personally think the added width/length/dry weight/tongue weight of the 21 crosses the threshold of what "should" be towed with a Tacoma.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Well, this turbo truck just came home with us last night, haven't had a chance to tow with it yet, but man, a backup camera and shorter wheelbase makes hitching 100X easier!





(2019 Expedition Limited with the 3.5L ecoboost, 4x4, and the 9300 lb tow option that includes a 2 speed transfer case and rear axle locker).

the 22" wheels that came with this 'Stealth' package are likely going to be swapped for some 18" with BFG KO2 all terrain tires....

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Selkirk

However, I do feel that the 19 is approaching the limits of what my truck can tow safely. I personally think the added width/length/dry weight/tongue weight of the 21 crosses the threshold of what "should" be towed with a Tacoma.

We towed a 21C from Dallas to Santa Cruz via Reno with our Tacoma 4.0L 4x4... it had the 6 speed stick shift... It was 100% fine towing, just required downshifting and revving up some to climb grades at reasonable speeds, HOWEVER, the big issue for us was payload... our 2008 Taco 4x4 only had 1200 lb total payload to start with, subtract 100 lbs for the shell, subtract 500 lbs for the hitch weight, subtract 500 lbs for passengers+driver, and there's nothing left. We did have airbags so it rode fine at max GVWR. That and the 18 gallon tank left something to be desired on those long runs on I40, we were getting 9.6 MPG westbound in mid winter cruising in the mid 60s (and getting passed by semis right and left). eeeek.



I still kinda miss that truck, it was awesome off road with the TRD Off Road package and BF Goodrich KO2 tires... But we just don't have enough opportunities wherre we live to utilize that capability.

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

Well, this turbo truck just came home with us last night, haven't had a chance to tow with it yet, but man, a backup camera and shorter wheelbase makes hitching 100X easier!

(2019 Expedition Limited with the 3.5L ecoboost, 4x4, and the 9300 lb tow option that includes a 2 speed transfer case and rear axle locker).

the 22" wheels that came with this 'Stealth' package are likely going to be swapped for some 18" with BFG KO2 all terrain tires....

Congrats- you are gonna love the tow! Check out the OEM FX4 18" wheels. I almost went for them, however with the 20" wheels the tires aren't different enough for the trouble. Definitely want to change the 22's however.
https://factorywheelwarehouse.com/ca...eels-and-rims/

[SageRpod]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

Well, this turbo truck just came home with us last night, haven't had a chance to tow with it yet, but man, a backup camera and shorter wheelbase makes hitching 100X easier!
2019 Expedition Limited with the 3.5L ecoboost, 4x4, and the 9300 lb tow option that includes a 2 speed transfer case and rear axle locker).

the 22" wheels that came with this 'Stealth' package are likely going to be swapped for some 18" with BFG KO2 all terrain tires....

Very, very nice. The Ford dealer installed our B&W hide-a-ball hitch so they gave us an Explorer as a loaner with the 3.5EB. What a hoot to drive!

[Mountain_gal]

these are about the same numbers
- about 21mpg around town not towing
- about 28-30 mpg on the highway not towing
- about 16-19 mpg while towing.
as we get with our V-6 turbo diesel 2016 Grand Cherokee. It is great hauling the 21 trailer in the mountains or speeding up an uphill on ramp.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by SageRpod

Very, very nice. The Ford dealer installed our B&W hide-a-ball hitch so they gave us an Explorer as a loaner with the 3.5EB. What a hoot to drive!

the Explorer is a large FWD centric crossover.
the Expedition is a full sized F150 based RWD centric SUV.

superficially they look pretty similar. The Expedition with the HD Tow option is rated to tow 9200 lbs (but reality of physics and GCWR and such is that you probably want to keep it under 6500 lbs so you can have a reasonable payload in the truck).

[SageRpod]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

the Explorer is a large FWD centric crossover.
the Expedition is a full sized F150 based RWD centric SUV.

superficially they look pretty similar. The Expedition with the HD Tow option is rated to tow 9200 lbs (but reality of physics and GCWR and such is that you probably want to keep it under 6500 lbs so you can have a reasonable payload in the truck).

My bad. Thanks for catching that. I'm sure the Expedition is even more fun to drive. Congrats. Very nice rig

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

the Explorer is a large FWD centric crossover.
the Expedition is a full sized F150 based RWD centric SUV.

superficially they look pretty similar. The Expedition with the HD Tow option is rated to tow 9200 lbs (but reality of physics and GCWR and such is that you probably want to keep it under 6500 lbs so you can have a reasonable payload in the truck).

Beginning in 2020 Explorer became RWD centric (again).

[Radar1]

Originally Posted by Chamberman

You should also inquire about their towing speeds. Someone that tows at 60mph will see a much lower MPG reduction than someone towing at 70mph.

Excellent point! I can't really compare my empty and towing MPG differences because they are always at different speeds. I'm sure if I towed at 75 then the MPG difference while towing would be much more drastic, or if I never drove empty above 65 MPH then I would have a better picture of the towing hit.

As it is, my normally aspirated V6 Durango got about 17 MPG towing my Scamp, and gets about 14.5 towing my Escape 19, while my turbo I-4 Ranger got about 17 MPG towing the Scamp, and about 14.5 towing my 19' Escape (pretty much the same). The turbo gets about 2 MPG better than the V6 locally though.

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by SageRpod

My bad. Thanks for catching that. I'm sure the Expedition is even more fun to drive. Congrats. Very nice rig

If it was a newer Explorer ST that would've been a hoot for sure & definitely more nimble than an Expedition, however for towing no comparison. I went to test drive a 2020 when the RWD centric Explorers came on the market. Dealer wanted MSRP + $5K. That was pre-pandemic and that didn't last long. I didn't like the funky vertical display- looked like a Galaxy +. The price I liked even less, and found a new 2019 Expedition for less than the Explorer. Those were the days when you could haggle with the dealers and Ford had some huge rebates going on then.

[salmo7000]

Originally Posted by CasparScape

Not seeing this truck mentioned, I thought I would share. My 2021 chevy Silverado 1500 duramax turbodiesel towing E-19 averages a solid 15 mpg, considering mts, flats, and no real effort to drive slowly. This is loaded trailer and 17 ft canoe on the truck rack. Amazingly, I get 30+ mpg highway when not towing, 23 mpg average around town. I really hated to part with my 2000 V-8 Tundra, but even new Tundras still lack serious tow and cargo capacity, and mileage is still embarrassingly low.

Thanks for chiming in!! I have a 2017 4X4 Chevy Colorado with the 2.8L diesel, and I have loved it since 30 seconds into the test drive. It’s been a fantastic tow for my 19. It regularly gets an eye popping 33 mpg on the highway not towing, and averages 18 - 20 mpg towing in the mountains of Idaho and Montana. At some point I’m going to have to replace it, although I hope not for some time yet. At the top of my list is the Chevy 1500 3.0L turbo diesel. I really don’t want to drive a full size pickup though, and I REALLY don’t want to choke up $60k for a new one. But I can’t bear the thought of giving up the fuel efficiency of my Colorado. That’s the main reason you’ll never see me driving a Toyota pickup, although our daily driver is a RAV4 with 200,000+ miles on it… so I do get the whole Toyota reliability thing.

I’m actually a little surprised you’re not getting better than 15 mpg towing with your 1500, although as you say, that’s without any effort to drive slowly. I rarely exceed 60 mph towing and never exceed 65 mph, which might be one reason my Colorado does so well. Oh well, I’m keeping up with scheduled maintenance and hoping to keep it for at least 3 more years!!

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Rossue

Beginning in 2020 Explorer became RWD centric (again).

OH, didn't realize that.

[WillyB]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

Well, this turbo truck just came home with us last night, haven't had a chance to tow with it yet, but man, a backup camera and shorter wheelbase makes hitching 100X easier!





(2019 Expedition Limited with the 3.5L ecoboost, 4x4, and the 9300 lb tow option that includes a 2 speed transfer case and rear axle locker).

the 22" wheels that came with this 'Stealth' package are likely going to be swapped for some 18" with BFG KO2 all terrain tires....

Like that color

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by WillyB

Like that color

I really wanted a white one, but hard to find with right mix of features. and a stone or beige interior, even harder to find, 90% of them seem to have black interiors.