Concern with the stock tire speed rating?

[Eggscape]

Got word from Escape today that the tires they use are made by Carlisle, on both style of rims. No further information provided.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

I
My favorite is "everybody is doing it."

(Donna D. who follows the Basic Rule while driving and/or towing)

Well there's a lot truth to that but maybe not for the reason you think.

There's only one road into the area that I live in. Folks that live at the bottom of the road didn't like what they perceived as speeding traffic past their houses. They got a 40 kph speed limit imposed; we got it removed, they got 4 huge speed humps installed; we got them removed. At first I didn't think we stood a chance because all the speed monitoring indicated that the average speed was 58 kph, 8 over the posted 50. But many traffic studies have shown that when the general public doesn't perceive the posted speed to be realistic they tend to drive at a speed they think is reasonable. That's why the 40 kph didn't work. People regarded it as unreasonable and drove at what they thought was reasonable.

I frequently see folks sticking precisely to the posted speed. I also see the traffic start to back up behind them and folks trying to move into a now crowded fast lane. So my view is a little bit over the posted speed is reasonable, after all, everyone else is doing it.

Ron

[cpaharley2008]

No offense Ron, but allowing each individual to drive what speed they perceive as reasonable takes a step backward in our society. Reasonable and ordinary is a personal perception, it is not from educated highway engineers or local law enforcement. There may be children in the area or livestock or any other reason the locals want the lower speed and they are entitled to that speed. Also it is a known factor that alcohol and drugs impacts our perception of reasonableness. In some communities, he property owners can vote to lower the speed by what the community wants, it is their street you are riding on, not the drivers.
That is the reason for speed bumps and traffic circles in areas. Now Interstates and other controlled access roads are a different matter.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

No offense Ron, but allowing each individual to drive what speed they perceive as reasonable takes a step backward in our society.

What I read in Ron's post was a not that individuals be allowed to drive at speeds they determine reasonable, but that this individual situation was unreasonable at the lower speeds. I have seen that in places too, where it just makes no sense other than to provide revenue for police forces.

In my traffic engineering studies, speed was considered in design, and minimizing traffic conflicts was key to safety, and one factor is keeping every vehicle on the road doing the same speed. Very often traffic engineers will design a road for a certain speed, only to be reduced by city officials and community groups, often for somewhat selfish reasons.

Ever driven that road where the speed limit changes fairly often, yet no change to the road itself? I know of a few, and every person I talk to about them get frustrated. It is also a good place to find a policeman if you need one.

I also see areas where they use standard speed limits where I do not feel comfortable doing the listed speed, and these are mostly in more congested and residential streets with kids around. I know the speed limit on the road in front of my house has the standard 50 kph residential limit, and I rarely drive any more than 30. But on the open highway, with well designed and built roads, good viewing and no buildings alongside, there is not the need for reduced speeds.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

What I read in Ron's post was a not that individuals be allowed to drive at speeds they determine reasonable, but that this individual situation was unreasonable at the lower speeds. .

That's it exactly. When I see morons blasting along at 80 kph etc. the names I have for them are unprintable.

My speed on the road varies. If there's other cars or people it goes down appropriately. I've lived here a long time. By my count over 40,000 trips up and down the road. No accidents and never seen one so the fact that the posted speed is 50 kph and and average speed is 58 kph doesn't seem to be a safety related situation.

Speed limits changing often are an annoyance? No kidding. I took our council on a video drive to a recreation complex less than two miles from my house. Start at 50 for a hundred yards, then 40 for a km., then 50 for a hundred yards, then 60 for 500 yards, then 50 to the parking lot. 5 speed changes in a short distance. They were impressed. Bye-bye 40.

Ron

[rbryan4]

I'll give my perspective, largely influenced from my former career in law enforcement.

Excessive speeds cause accidents that injure and kill people. I've been to too many accident scenes and have seen things I'll never forget, even though I'd like to.

But - and this is a big but - I have also worked in jurisdictions where the speed limits posted made no sense, and appeared to be put in place to "catch" people, rather than be put there because of a specific hazard or risk. In other words, the posted speed was not the result of an engineering or traffic study, or put there to address a problem. It was indeed a "revenue generator". That really doesn't matter however for the driver. You can either obey the posted limits, or run the risk of being cited.

Our roads include a mix of all kinds of vehicles, and all kinds of drivers, both competent and courteous, and incompetent and dangerous. That's a volatile mix. I can't advise to "go with the flow" of traffic if that means speeding, but I can advise not to be a rock in the stream. That causes problems and even accidents as well, since the impatient and faster driver will do anything to get past a percieved obstacle.

So there may be situations where the best approach is to exceed the posted limit. You have to weigh the risk of technically violating the posted speed limit against the very real risk of impeding traffic to the point where people get reckless.

We get along fine however by simply changing our mindset when we tow. Relax, take in the scenery, take your time, and consider the very real handling and stopping distance differences when you have a trailer behind you. We aren't going to intentionally impede traffic if we can help it, but we aren't going to tow at 80 mph either.

Back on the main topic, even though we won't be towing at 80, it's nice to know we have high speed tires that are technically up to the task. I would not want to tow with trailer tires that have a lower speed index, and would replace them if I found them. To each, their own.

[SFDavis50]

During an 8 year period I lived in Plano, TX and worked in Dallas, then moved to Dallas and worked in Dallas but travelled to Plano and McKinney, TX often, then lived in Dallas and worked in Plano. Seems like every time I saw a Dallas police car they were driving around on patrol and every time I saw a Plano police SUV they were on a speed trap. Plano also had speed changes on large divided 4 lane roads going into industrial development areas and often set up speed traps in those areas during the morning and evening commute. I have great respect for Dallas cops.

[War Eagle]

In case anyone is still interested in the OP's original query, our 2017 21' with aluminum rims, completed in February (9 months back), came with Carlisle Radial Trail HD ST205/75R15 Load Range C. For what it's worth, we try to drive the speed limit, but we cap it between 65-70 mph because the 87 octane fuel efficiency in our 5.0L V8 drops noticeably above that. Oh, and I do my best to follow all traffic laws, but anyone who believes that never exceeding the speed limit is always the safest answer has never driven interstate in Atlanta (take your pick, I-20, I-75, I-85). 18-wheelers, 4-wide, 5-wide, 6-wide, all pedal to the metal. And like some huge vortex, they just suck you into their group draft. White-knuckle driving, for sure, but try to drive the speed limit, and you'll wind up being just another grease spot on the asphalt. We'll drive an extra hour looping around through Chattanooga just to avoid Atlanta. (My apology to any Atlanta interstate fans out there. You have both my admiration and my sympathy.)

[emers382]

Thanks Dale for confirming my suspicions about Atlanta area driving. We did the same in September leaving Columbus for Asheville headed up 27 to Chattanooga before heading east from there. Would have been a lot shorter through Atlanta.

Adrian

[MimStan]

An Atlanta native friend of mine used to say you don't "drive" your vehicle down the interstates in Atlanta, you "aim" it. It's not unlike Seattle; it's best if you can just go around it all.

[Rossue]

Life in the big city as they say, and Salt Lake City hardly an exception. Madhouse with lots of aggressive Semi drivers and evidently too many donut shops as we didn't see any cops. The 80/15 transition is something. Only thing I've experienced recently is the 880 across the water from SF. Another insane stretch of freeway with people who seem intent on creating a Sig Alert. Seem to remember Psych 101 mentioning when there are too many rats they begin to eat others.

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by Rossue

Life in the big city as they say, and Salt Lake City hardly an exception. Madhouse with lots of aggressive Semi drivers and evidently too many donut shops as we didn't see any cops. The 80/15 transition is something. Only thing I've experienced recently is the 880 across the water from SF. Another insane stretch of freeway with people who seem intent on creating a Sig Alert. Seem to remember Psych 101 mentioning when there are too many rats they begin to eat others.

Hi: Rossue... We can't expect the competitive spirit to vanish when people get behind the wheel. All my life I was supposed to be at the head of the pack... now I'm towing a trailer I have to be comfortable bringing up the rear!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[dfandrews]

Originally Posted by Rossue

...Another insane stretch of freeway with people who seem intent on creating a Sig Alert. ....

FYI
For those of you who haven't (fortunately) experienced Los Angeles' freeways, a "SigAlert" is a CA Highway Patrol term meaning "unplanned event causing a lane closure of over 30 minutes." The term was invented by radio broadcaster Loyd "Sig" Sigmon and the LAPD in the 1950's. It is in common parlance throughout So.Calif., but when I've used the term in other areas I get blank stares.

[Mike Lewis]

This is a good thread; shame I didn't see it earlier.
As for me, I tow at 60 mph. I will go faster (a) if I'm on a two-lane road, am holding up traffic, and the speed limit is higher, or (b) if I'm in one of those urban traffic situations where you have to "go with the flow", but I'll do that only up to a point, maybe 70 mph max.

A few years ago I read the book "Traffic" by Tom Vanderbilt. It was the first book on traffic engineering written for a general audience. A few items from the book stuck in my mind:

- The average American starts driving at age sixteen and will drive for the next fifty years. The chances of that life being cut short by a fatal auto accident are one percent. That's right-- one in 100 people will die in a car wreck. Dang. And many more will suffer serious injuries that will impact the rest of their lives.

- The typical fatal accident is a single-car accident where a tired driver falls asleep, runs off the road, and hits a tree or something else. So rural states like Montana have a high accident rate per population.

- Cars are about as safe now as they can be made, but there is room for improvement in making roads safer. The recent popularity of traffic circles / roundabouts is for making roads safer by forcing drivers to assess a complex situation. That makes them slow down and pay attention. I find traffic circles annoying but that's the point: when you're annoyed, you're paying attention.

The book was written before the advent of self-driving cars; I'd like to know what the author thinks of adding them to the mix.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

The recent popularity of traffic circles / roundabouts is for making roads safer by forcing drivers to assess a complex situation. That makes them slow down and pay attention. I find traffic circles annoying but that's the point: when you're annoyed, you're paying attention.

I'm not so sure about that. Mostly I see people who started driving before traffic circles existed, have never learned the protocol and do become annoyed allright but it shows as aggression.

Yesterday I was going around a traffic circle, a person approaches, almost cut me off and then honked! I almost stopped in the circle to explain how traffic circles work.

Ron

[gbaglo]

I can't figure out these "traffic circles" that are the size of a hubcap. I learned that you give way to vehicles that are in the circle already, which would be coming from the left. I also learned at a cross street you give way to the vehicle on the right. With these miniature traffic circles, the car on your left can have it's nose in the circle and it's rear still on the cross street.
So, I just give way to anybody in the vicinity.

[Jim Bennett]

If everyone used the two lane traffic circles properly, they are a great way to handle an intersection with little chance of conflict.

Unfortunately there are a lot of folks who do not take the few minutes to learn how to properly use them, and mess up a good thing. Once again it is good that everyone is going the same direction, so any mishap they may cause is usually minor.

Single lane circles are becoming more popular and work fine with minimal traffic. They are basically just yield while turning right thing.

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Single lane circles are becoming more popular and work fine with minimal traffic. They are basically just yield while turning right thing.

Yes, "minimal traffic" being the key. I've noticed that during rush hour a stream of traffic will "latch" the circle by entering one way, filling the circle, and preventing other cars from entering via other roads leading into the circle. In this case you need a traffic light for at least part of the day.

Back to tires-- how many miles should the Carlisle tires last on an Escape 21 before needing replacement, given average use? Or how many years, if that limit comes first?

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I can't figure out these "traffic circles" that are the size of a hubcap. I learned that you give way to vehicles that are in the circle already, which would be coming from the left. I also learned at a cross street you give way to the vehicle on the right.

Yes, just like any normal traffic circle (or "roundabout", which is the currently correct term). It isn't a cross intersection, and it doesn't matter where the other traffic entered - if they're in the circle and close enough that you can't enter without conflicting with them, you yield to them.

If there's any question of the intersection type, roundabouts now have signs ahead of them to explicitly identify them.

Originally Posted by gbaglo

With these miniature traffic circles, the car on your left can have it's nose in the circle and it's rear still on the cross street.

Yeah, they're small. Many are so small that the middle is mostly paved (an arrangement called a "truck apron"), with a gentle curb on the outside so trailers and longer trucks or buses can safely and legally run their rear inside wheels over the curbing, but no one tries to treat it as a two-lane circle.

I was a bit surprised to realize around some of these in the greater Vancouver area that both city buses and my motorhome could go around without running over the curbing. Only an 18-wheeler would need the apron. I've also towed a trailer around them in the Edmonton area, again without touching the curb. They're small, and some are small enough to force an annoying low speed (which is their purpose), but I haven't seen any yet which are unreasonable.

[wetzk]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

If everyone used the two lane traffic circles properly, they are a great way to handle an intersection with little chance of conflict.

Unfortunately there are a lot of folks who do not take the few minutes to learn how to properly use them, and mess up a good thing. Once again it is good that everyone is going the same direction, so any mishap they may cause is usually minor.

Single lane circles are becoming more popular and work fine with minimal traffic. They are basically just yield while turning right thing.

We have one that is #1 in the state for accidents. They did do some work to it so maybe it will improve. The problem is it's two lanes. The outside lane can turn onto West Venice Avenue or go a bit further and continue on Jacaranda. The inside is supposed to either travel down to where it enters Jacaranda or it can travel around to East Venice Ave or go all the way around and head north on Jacaranda. The problem is the inside lane drivers consistently turn onto west Venice ave . And the outsides attempt to continue after Jacaranda. Which means they meet. The signs and markings are obvious but it does not matter. I avoid that roundabout if at all possible. I've had more than one hard slamming of the brakes as an idiot swerves in front of me. And had someone run into my rear during the summer back in 2015 as I braked hard to avoid a crash.

One more year and my car insurance will go back down. They tell you even though it was not your fault , if you have had an accident you are at a higher risk of having another. So your rates go up for 3 years. We checked with several other companies and were told the same thing. No wonder folks down here call the accident lawyers.