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Old 11-12-2013, 09:04 AM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by escape artist View Post
I'm certain he has thought of some form of damping for the new axles, and will use whatever his supplier suggests is appropriate!
Probably true - I'm just asking what that is, and explaining why that might be the (perhaps optional) inclusion of shocks.

I agree - nothing needs to be reinvented.
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Old 11-12-2013, 09:34 AM   #142
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My single axle hybrid has leaf springs, no dampening other then the links that connect the leafs to the frame move fore and aft as the leafs flex. I had to replace the links last winter as the bolt holes had elongated in time. I was told this may have caused early tire wear issues I had. Too soon to know if they were really the cause.

I'd prefer the shocks but no shocks would not prevent me from buying the unit. It's hard to tell if weight has much to do with the selection process, the 5er is pretty light.
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Old 11-12-2013, 09:35 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Burloak View Post
In my professional opinion the damping requirements of a particular suspension system design has everything to do with its design characteristics and expected loading and very little to do with whatever "premium" means in trailer marketing.
I agree. The characteristics I want are well-controlled suspension action and smooth ride. With a leaf-spring axle, that requires the additional damping of shocks.

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Originally Posted by Burloak View Post
Fifth wheels have lower sprung weight vs a conventional trailer of the same mass. That in turn lowers the spring rates required to carry the remaining towed mass.
No, I don't think the sprung-to -unsprung ratio is a big deal, but even if it were unusually low spring rates would call for damping for control. I note that the springs (and therefore the spring rates) used in the commodity suspensions under fifth-wheels are exactly those used in the same suspensions under other trailers. The axle capacity determines the springs, regardless of the rest of the trailer... just as the current Escape 5.0 uses a normal Torflex the same as the 17' with the same axle capacity.

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Originally Posted by Burloak View Post
Close coupled axles don't react simultaneously but rather in sequence and symbiotically to road input. We don't anything about the designers assumptions regarding input amplitude and frequency. I've said before that if you only travel smooth roads you don't even need the springs.
Real tandem suspensions on real roads need springs and damping for acceptance behavior. If damping by interleaf friction is insufficient (as it typically is in packs of only four or five leaves) shocks are the solution. I thought we weren't designing a suspension here?

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I'm sure if the chassis engineer determines the suspension system needs shocks it will get them, if it doesn't it won't be changing my mind regarding the quality of the escape product.
Reace is the chassis designer; I just asked if anyone knew his choice, and explained why I expected it might include shocks. I am not challenging Escape quality - I wouldn't be interested in the new trailer's equipment if I didn't respect Escape Trailer Industries and its product.

I now regret asking, as I would accept any answer - I would just add shocks if not factory-supplied. My question was also intended to benefit others who might soon be in a position to finalize option choices and might not be willing to add shocks themselves, but all the red herrings about tightly coupled suspension systems and unsprung weight probably killed any hope of clear understanding.

Is that why all the concern: is a simple question about components seen as a criticism of the design? It's not, it's just a question... like people asking what size of tires are supplied.
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Old 11-12-2013, 09:51 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by padlin View Post
My single axle hybrid has leaf springs, no dampening other then the links that connect the leafs to the frame move fore and aft as the leafs flex.
Same with my Boler. Adding shocks smoothed the ride and improved control.
That link (the shackle) is needed but doesn't add useful dampening, which means absorbing energy.

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Originally Posted by padlin View Post
I'd prefer the shocks but no shocks would not prevent me from buying the unit.
Same here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by padlin View Post
It's hard to tell if weight has much to do with the selection process, the 5er is pretty light.
No, the weight's a red herring: a small car and a huge bus both use shocks, for the same reason.
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Old 11-12-2013, 03:15 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post

Reace is the chassis designer; I just asked if anyone knew his choice.
This may be a bit simplistic, so forgive me, but why don't you email Reace and then post his response here for anyone else who would like to know?

Just a thought.
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Old 11-12-2013, 08:02 PM   #146
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This may be a bit simplistic, so forgive me, but why don't you email Reace and then post his response here for anyone else who would like to know?
Yes, that's sensible, and that's what Jim Bennett suggested many posts ago. I was just asking here if anyone already knew (and of course if Reace wanted to reply here he could)... before the "you shouldn't even ask about shocks" reaction occurred. Maybe we're over that and sanity can reign again.

I have asked Reace by e-mail; it is not urgent and so I did not press for a reply, but I'll share it when I get one.
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:39 PM   #147
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Reace has not had a chance to respond to my query yet, and today while waiting I checked the Bigfoot detailed features and options list. I note that while shocks are not available for the single-axle 17.5' model, shocks are standard equipment for the Bigfoot 21' and 25' models. All Bigfoot trailers use leaf springs, and those 21' and 25' models have tandem axles. As Escape is moving into larger trailer sizes, Bigfoot (the other major Canadian moulded fiberglass travel trailer brand, also located in British Columbia) becomes an increasingly direct competitor.

Whether or not the shocks are required, or even desirable, it seems reasonable to me to ask if they will be available or included.
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:11 PM   #148
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I remember a member on FGRV selling a 21' Bigfoot in 2012 that had a custom air suspension installed. Boy was that a sweet setup.
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:41 PM   #149
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I remember a member on FGRV selling a 21' Bigfoot in 2012 that had a custom air suspension installed. Boy was that a sweet setup.
Cool ... do I hear another Escape customization request brewing?

I'll have to look that one up, although of course I have no intention of buying a Bigfoot!
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Old 11-15-2013, 09:54 PM   #150
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At this time, I don't intend to install a suspension dampening kit. I have very little experience towing RV trailers equipped with spring axles. Once the first 5.0 TA is out, I will play around with it and should know quite quickly if it is necessary.

Tammy is pushing hard to take number 1 or 2 down to the Texas Bluebonnet rally in April. If all works, this will be a good test for it!

Today I just received progress pictures from the fiberglass company building the plug. Very cool...I will have them up soon!

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