EMS and 2000i generator

[cpaharley2008]

My uncle was a 101st SE in WWII...

[Bob and Susie]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Escape folks are the best. I guess next time I will try to search previous posts first, sure did not mean to stir anything up.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Bob and Susie

Thanks for all the suggestions. Escape folks are the best. I guess next time I will try to search previous posts first, sure did not mean to stir anything up.

There's no need to worry or apologize. It's just a good idea to search first, since many questions have been extensively covered in the past.

[rotorbudd]

Originally Posted by jnfrombigt

I think we were at "Eagle" about the same time.

Phu Bai With the 159th ASHB C Co. from 70 till 72. Spent a lot of nights a Camp Eagle on flare ship standby.

[Vermilye]

We are kind of wandering off thread, but 2/327th (No Slack) 68 - 69... A page or two of photos after I got out of the field.

[Ronn]

Originally Posted by Bob and Susie

Thanks for all the suggestions. Escape folks are the best. I guess next time I will try to search previous posts first, sure did not mean to stir anything up.

I do appreciate having questions come up again.

1) It can be very difficult searching information, especially if not familiar with the "forum's terminology". There are constantly new owners and I have gleaned much information from the newer posts that may have been covered before. Also, there may have new ideas to share (or even repeat the old ideas).

2) Many of the previous posts pertain to out of date information.

3) Many previous posts get off subject and can be many many pages long, going from the topic to the etc and then back to the topic. At the very least a repeat question might stay on topic for a short while.

4) And then there is always the "I didn't know what I didn't know, so seeing the topic come up gives me info I would not even know to search

[gbaglo]

I've been on the forum since 2008. A couple days ago, I tried to find a post that I had made a few days before. If I didn't know what search terms to use, who would? I used the bottom search box that's always recommended ( "Site

Search/Google" ) to no avail. I gave up for a bit and then tried the top box "Search Forums", and it showed up.
I can imagine the frustration of a new user trying to navigate "Search".
And, while I'm on the subject of this forum, nothing has been done to make posting photos easier and to have them orient correctly. Facebook seems to be able to do it.

It may be aggravating for senior members to see the same answers and the same photos repeatedly, but I think new members ( and some of us seniors ) need a break ( not brake ).

[Ronn]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I've been on the forum since 2008. A couple days ago, I tried to find a post that I had made a few days before. If I didn't know what search terms to use, who would? I used the bottom search box that's always recommended ( "Site

Search/Google" ) to no avail. I gave up for a bit and then tried the top box "Search Forums", and it showed up.
I can imagine the frustration of a new user trying to navigate "Search".
And, while I'm on the subject of this forum, nothing has been done to make posting photos easier and to have them orient correctly. Facebook seems to be able to do it.

It may be aggravating for senior members to see the same answers and the same photos repeatedly, but I think new members ( and some of us seniors ) need a break ( not brake ).

Same thing happened to me yesterday. I posted something a few months ago and could not find it. I was doubly surprised when I did a quick search through my previous posts and didn't find it that way as well (maybe I was out of patience by then, but I gave up looking).

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by jnfrombigt

I mentioned earlier that I put together a grounding wire to solve my problem with my Yamaha generator . This picture is from the Honda website and they apparently do the same thing. The green wire is attached to the grounding post with the other end to a ground. In my case I use a 6 inch nail/spike and hammer it into the ground. According to the Honda manual this grounding post is connected to the ground on all the generator receptacles,

you still need a bonding plug, as 'neutral' needs to be tied to ground to satisfy the EMS. in fact, to meet safety requirements, you should not use a bonding plug without also having a ground stake (or grounding to a galvanized water pipe if one is available)

in a conventional household wiring setup, neutral from the power company is tied to ground at your main ingress panel, using a ground stake AND bonding plug simulates this with your generator.

[jnfrombigt]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

you still need a bonding plug, as 'neutral' needs to be tied to ground to satisfy the EMS. in fact, to meet safety requirements, you should not use a bonding plug without also having a ground stake (or grounding to a galvanized water pipe if one is available)

in a conventional household wiring setup, neutral from the power company is tied to ground at your main ingress panel, using a ground stake AND bonding plug simulates this with your generator.

Mine worked. Pulled into Goosenecks State Park. Close to 100 degrees f. First discovered water pump wouldn't work because of bypass valve problem. The pump overheats. Then tried to get the AC working. I turn on the AC and it won't start. I attached some ring connectors to some 10awg wire. One end to the generator grounding post and a 6 inch nail driven into the ground at the other end and guess what happened?

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by jnfrombigt

Mine worked. Pulled into Goosenecks State Park. Close to 100 degrees f. First discovered water pump wouldn't work because of bypass valve problem. The pump overheats. Then tried to get the AC working. I turn on the AC and it won't start. I attached some ring connectors to some 10awg wire. One end to the generator grounding post and a 6 inch nail driven into the ground at the other end and guess what happened?

No idea of why/how adding a ground worked. The only thing I can figure is the grounding gave the EMS a path through the trailer's bond to the frame and your driven ground. I suspect you had decent soil conductivity - that won't always happen. A "official" ground it typically 2 8' 5/8" rods driven completely into the ground & tied together.

Bonding is a better solution to insuring that the EMS will function with an inverter generator.

[7th Heaven]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Sounds like someone is volunteering to become a moderator?............

Originally Posted by Vermilye

Gee, I managed to do that without volunteering! Go Screaming Eagles!

Dare I say it this is Off Topic .... LOL

[Lanark Camper]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

No idea of why/how adding a ground worked. The only thing I can figure is the grounding gave the EMS a path through the trailer's bond to the frame and your driven ground. I suspect you had decent soil conductivity - that won't always happen. A "official" ground it typically 2 8' 5/8" rods driven completely into the ground & tied together.

Bonding is a better solution to insuring that the EMS will function with an inverter generator.

Certainly connecting the generators neutral wire to the ground wire works and makes sense to the EMS.



I don't know how the EMS would know if the ground on the generator was "earthed" without a proper ground connection itself ?


When connected to a parks 110V supply the EMS can see if the neutral and ground wire are common but I don't understand how it can tell if the ground wire actually is grounded.



Probably I'm missing something here ? Is the EMS earthed through the stabilizer jacks/trailer frame ? Should the generators ground lug connect to the trailers frame ?



Bob

[jnfrombigt]

I tried to recreate the situation that I described where I used a grounding cable and a small spike and I could not get it to work. So, I concede that I was probably wrong There was only one difference in the setup. At the Goosenecks the landing gear were sitting on the ground in the dirt and in my driveway they are sitting on plastic supports.

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by Lanark Camper

Certainly connecting the generators neutral wire to the ground wire works and makes sense to the EMS.



I don't know how the EMS would know if the ground on the generator was "earthed" without a proper ground connection itself ?


When connected to a parks 110V supply the EMS can see if the neutral and ground wire are common but I don't understand how it can tell if the ground wire actually is grounded.



Probably I'm missing something here ? Is the EMS earthed through the stabilizer jacks/trailer frame ? Should the generators ground lug connect to the trailers frame ?



Bob

The EMS is fairly dumb. It looks for an open ground by checking that the neutral & ground are tied together. If the neutral was open, no AC. If the ground is open, no connection to the neutral. This is the same way the 3 light circuit testers work.

My suspicion is that in jnfrombigt's case the path the EMS detected was through the trailer converter ground to the trailer jacks through the earth & to his driven stake. Again, this is not a reliable solution, since it depends on good ground conductivity and uninsulated jacks (no plastic legos or wood blocks).

As to connecting the generator's ground lug to the trailer frame - it is not necessary, and for the most part, undesirable. It offers no additional protection.

The reason for bonding/grounding in a utility supplied system is they already ground at service entrances, transformers, etc. This is to limit fault voltages, and trip fuses or breakers during shorts to the earth, transformer cores, etc. Since there is already a ground connection by the utility, it is important to keep it in the trailer.

If the trailer ground fails, you, touching the earth & metal parts of the trailer replace it. If there are no faults in the trailer, no problem, but if there is a leak to ground from an appliance, you will carry the fault. The ground connection is what causes a circuit breaker to trip if the fault current is high enough. Lower currents may not trip a breaker, but will be carried by the ground. Again, if the ground is broken, you may replace it. It only takes 100 - 200 ma (.1 - .2 amps) to kill you, so good grounds in a utility provided system are important.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Lanark Camper

Certainly connecting the generators neutral wire to the ground wire works and makes sense to the EMS.



I don't know how the EMS would know if the ground on the generator was "earthed" without a proper ground connection itself ?


When connected to a parks 110V supply the EMS can see if the neutral and ground wire are common but I don't understand how it can tell if the ground wire actually is grounded.



Probably I'm missing something here ? Is the EMS earthed through the stabilizer jacks/trailer frame ? Should the generators ground lug connect to the trailers frame ?



Bob

the trailer frame should be connected to the ground from the power cord, but it can't possibly assume to be properly grounded via the stabilizers, whatr if they are on blocks, or on cement or something?

afaik, the EMS can't confirm the ground is good, only that ground and neutral are tied together. its the bonding plug that makes the EMS happy. actually earth grounding the generator is a safety thing.

[Fox hunt]

would it be wrong to just bypass the EMS since you are not plugged into power just using the generator? why would you need it?

[Vermilye]

I feel bypassing it would be fine. About the only thing it might be useful for is if your trailer load got high enough to drop the voltage below 105V, and in most cases that would shut down the generator. Some kind of generator failure might cause over voltage, but that is unlikely.

O course bypassing it will prevent you from using the display to monitor voltage & current...

[drjp]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

This topic comes up several times a year. Rather than start a new thread with the same question, I highly recommend searching the forum for previous threads on the same topic. In doing a quick search just now I found no less than 6 threads, same subject.

The same can be said for many other topics. A search doesn't take long, and you'll find in most cases the subject has been thoroughly covered before.

This is a good suggestion. I guess this forum has some moderators? They (or one of the “Old Hands”) could write a Read This First post for new folks and suggest they do a search on their question before posting.

On the other hand I’m so impressed by the patient care, friendliness, and expertise of this forum’s members. Maybe they just like answering personally new questions no matter times they’ve been posted and answered before?
Jonathan

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by drjp

This is a good suggestion. I guess this forum has some moderators? They (or one of the “Old Hands”) could write a Read This First post for new folks and suggest they do a search on their question before posting.
Jonathan

Doing a search is an exercise in frustration, even for "old hands", never mind a newbie.

Instead of suggesting a search, perhaps an "old hand" can do the search and provide a link to the answer.
Just don't ask me to do it.