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Old 12-16-2018, 02:35 PM   #1
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Lithium batteries

I came across this video and thought I'd share in the event someone is considering switching to lithium ion batteries.

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Old 12-16-2018, 02:50 PM   #2
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I can't stand listening to some guy chattering for 18 minutes because he couldn't be bothered writing the material so it can be posted as text. If there is something to show that's different, but this one doesn't even show the module in any detail, so the video might as well be just audio.

So whatever the guy is on about, a Tesla battery module (the Model S/X shown, or the newer Model 3) is inappropriate for any other use, unless you are willing to provide the battery management system and circulating liquid coolant for which it is designed, and to put it in a proper housing. It is also wired wrong for RV use, since the Model S/X has six groups of cells in series, giving a working voltage almost twice as high as desired for a 12-volt systems; the Model 3 modules are 23 and 25 cells in series (two different sizes) so they're wildly inappropriate for a 12-volt system. Who knows... maybe that's what he explained.

There are other automotive lithium battery modules which would be useful... although again with a BMS and proper housing. The early Nissan Leaf is probably the most practical (with any multiple of two modules to suit desired capacity, 66 amp-hours per pair of modules).
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Old 12-16-2018, 03:15 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
I can't stand listening to some guy chattering for 18 minutes because he couldn't be bothered writing the material so it can be posted as text. If there is something to show that's different, but this one doesn't even show the module in any detail, so the video might as well be just audio.

So whatever the guy is on about, a Tesla battery module (the Model S/X shown, or the newer Model 3) is inappropriate for any other use, unless you are willing to provide the battery management system and circulating liquid coolant for which it is designed, and to put it in a proper housing. It is also wired wrong for RV use, since the Model S/X has six groups of cells in series, giving a working voltage almost twice as high as desired for a 12-volt systems; the Model 3 modules are 23 and 25 cells in series (two different sizes) so they're wildly inappropriate for a 12-volt system. Who knows... maybe that's what he explained.

There are other automotive lithium battery modules which would be useful... although again with a BMS and proper housing. The early Nissan Leaf is probably the most practical (with any multiple of two modules to suit desired capacity, 66 amp-hours per pair of modules).

I guess you shouldn't watch the video. I subsequent videos, he explains the installation very clearly. If his solution doesn't hold your interest, don't wstch it.



I can't stand reading posts that flame other posts because they don't mstch your opinion.
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Old 12-16-2018, 03:16 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
I can't stand listening to some guy chattering for 18 minutes because he couldn't be bothered writing the material so it can be posted as text. If there is something to show that's different, but this one doesn't even show the module in any detail, so the video might as well be just audio.
Unfortunately quite common for youtube videos. Too bad there's no quality control for the videos posted.

I'll take your word for the content, I can't stand non-video videos.

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Old 12-16-2018, 03:26 PM   #5
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I often ( I lie ), sometimes I click on a video link, and then I find it's 18 or 26 minutes long. That's as far as I get. A video is useful to me if it clearly demonstrates how to do something and shows how without waving the iPhone around and without being mostly a view of the narrator's hands, about two and a half minutes tops.
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Old 12-16-2018, 03:29 PM   #6
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This is quite a doable mod and the Morton’s on the Move have had it in place for a good bit and detail how they did it.

https://evannex.com/blogs/news/can-y...-tesla-battery

My buddy has purchased all the components using the videos above as a guide and is installing it in his new fifth wheel coach with 1200 watts of solar on the roof for their FT setup. A number of installations have been completed to date with the Tesla module, so it is a workable path for those who like to do this sort of project and want to save some $$.
This is probably much more suited to larger RV’s than an Escape, as smaller lithium plug n play solutions would be more suited for our trailers. Someone here posted a very nice AM solar lithium setup recently, that was a good solution for our trailers. I’m hoping the lithium prices are lower in 2 years when we need to mod it.
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Old 12-16-2018, 03:37 PM   #7
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Ron: Just wondering...why do you many times remove a bracket on the “end quote” which causes what you are quoting to not format properly?
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Old 12-16-2018, 03:42 PM   #8
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Ron: Just wondering...why do you many times remove a bracket on the “end quote” which causes what you are quoting to not format properly?

Yup. How come?
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Old 12-16-2018, 04:06 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Kingbiscuit View Post
I came across this video and thought I'd share in the event someone is considering switching to lithium ion batteries.
Interesting information/video and I'm always interested in the Lithium Battery topic and had no problem watching the video as it explained how they installed a simple BMS and why the cooling tubes are not needed for their setup.

If I were to make the switch from my current AGM to Lithium batteries. At this time I would go with Battle Born as it has built in Battery Management System and basically a direct replacement.
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Old 12-16-2018, 04:32 PM   #10
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Interesting information/video and I'm always interested in the Lithium Battery topic and had no problem watching the video as it explained how they installed a simple BMS and why the cooling tubes are not needed for their setup.

If I were to make the switch from my current AGM to Lithium batteries. At this time I would go with Battle Born as it has built in Battery Management System and basically a direct replacement.
Are the 6v batteries you buy off of Escape adequate for boondocking assuming you'll use mostly lights, maybe some TV at night, charge cells and tablet and maybe a coffeemaker in the morning? When is it appropriate to switch to Lithium, maybe when the 6v batteries are at the end of their life? BTW how long on average do these 6v batteries last?
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Old 12-16-2018, 04:50 PM   #11
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Ron: Just wondering...why do you many times remove a bracket on the “end quote” which causes what you are quoting to not format properly?
I'm fixing them as I see them.... and he's not the only one. Be nice.
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Old 12-16-2018, 04:50 PM   #12
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Personally, I'll probably never go Lithium. If I were getting a new trailer today, with inside batteries like the 5.0TA, I'd talk to ETI about me bringing up some AGM's. As I have perfectly good Deep Cycle, I'll wait for them to need replacing and then get AGM's. You'll need to see why the lithium folks went that route.
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Old 12-16-2018, 05:08 PM   #13
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If you boil water on the propane stove and use a Melita pour over filter the 6Vs will be plenty for your other applications.
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Old 12-16-2018, 05:54 PM   #14
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Personally, I'll probably never go Lithium. If I were getting a new trailer today, with inside batteries like the 5.0TA, I'd talk to ETI about me bringing up some AGM's. As I have perfectly good Deep Cycle, I'll wait for them to need replacing and then get AGM's. You'll need to see why the lithium folks went that route.
Bob,
Totally get your view, and the wet or gel batteries work fine for most.
Lithium is mostly what FT folks consider, although at the cost it’s difficult to go there even if full timing. Occasional camping, weekend, etc, it would be overkill, and unless cost came way down it shouldn’t be a consideration. The advantages of a Lithium setup when living in the trailer are too numerous to ignore, and the cost comparisons start lining up with AGM.
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Old 12-16-2018, 06:04 PM   #15
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I'm fixing them as I see them.... and he's not the only one. Be nice.
I don't have a clue what you're talking about. My only interest is deleting the non-applicable part of the post. I've never seen an example of what you're referring to as it looks OK to me.

Can you show me an example?

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Old 12-16-2018, 06:09 PM   #16
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[QUOTE=Ron in BC;273272]I don't have a clue what you're talking about. My only interest is deleting the non-applicable part of the post. I've never seen an example of what you're referring to as it looks OK to me.

Can you show me an example?

Ron QUOTE]


**********************
ALL the brackets are required. And the forward slash to finish the code.
~Capture.jpg

*****************
So it comes out looking like this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron in BC View Post
I don't have a clue what you're talking about. My only interest is deleting the non-applicable part of the post. I've never seen an example of what you're referring to as it looks OK to me.

Can you show me an example?

Ron

Hope this helps.
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Old 12-16-2018, 06:31 PM   #17
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Are the 6v batteries you buy off of Escape adequate for boondocking assuming you'll use mostly lights, maybe some TV at night, charge cells and tablet and maybe a coffeemaker in the morning? When is it appropriate to switch to Lithium, maybe when the 6v batteries are at the end of their life? BTW how long on average do these 6v batteries last?
Depends on whether you have solar or not. We used the 6v batteries with solar and never had an issue, for all the things you stated except we weren't using a coffee maker, we just used a French Press and heated the water using a kettle. I think quite a few people do have a coffee maker and probably most would say they don't have an issue.
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Old 12-16-2018, 06:36 PM   #18
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and maybe a coffeemaker in the morning?
Makes great coffee. No electricity required. Been using one for years.

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Old 12-16-2018, 06:44 PM   #19
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? BTW how long on average do these 6v batteries last?
Depends how you care for them. If you keep the electrolyte topped off and If you work off the top 20% of the rated capacity you will likely get in the 5-7 year range out of them.

If you often discharge them to less than 50%, then you will cut the life expectancy dramatically.


If you let them totally discharge, get your checkbook out.

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Old 12-16-2018, 06:51 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marsman View Post
Are the 6v batteries you buy off of Escape adequate for boondocking assuming you'll use mostly lights, maybe some TV at night, charge cells and tablet and maybe a coffeemaker in the morning? When is it appropriate to switch to Lithium, maybe when the 6v batteries are at the end of their life? BTW how long on average do these 6v batteries last?
We were in FL for 9 weeks and basically never hooked up to power ( OK 3 hours total during these 69 days to run the A.C. during hot and humid afternoons). We ran the Maxx Fan 24/7. We occassionaly used a Hot Pot on the inverter, occasionally used an electric kettle in the morning on the inverter ( it heated faster than the propane burner), and occasionally ran a sewing machine via the inverter. We also have 2-12V fans that ran 1-2 hours a day during warm weather. As it got cool during cold fronts we ran our furnace 8 hours/ night.

Most afternoons the batteries were over 13V, most mornings the batteries were at 12.6. The dual 6V batteries held up well to our uses. We charged 2 cell phones, 2 tablets, used 3-4 lights for 4 hours per day, cooked on propane, showered, pumped water (never hooked up to pressure water) everyday. We set our Escape 19 for boondocking, and boondocked in a FHU spot.

We lived like this on a sailboat for 17 years, and found that we needed to replace the 6V batteries every 2 years. The Escape has more solar power than our boat, but has 1/2 the number of batteries. When these original batteries die we'll replace with AGMs. Although, in the 19 the batteries are very available for adding water. In the 17 and 21 the water adding maintenance is a much bigger chore and even more suited for AGMs.
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