Some 2020/21 Tow Vehicles

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Rossue

...His article is titled "The Fatal Flaw of Mercedes Benz Sprinters. That flaw he says is "directly related to the components involved with their exhaust systems". He says the cost of maintaining and repairing them is "a staggering average of ten cents per mile. He says the average for Ram ProMaster and Ford Transit average two cents per mile. The reason these exhaust systems got so complicated is of course the strict EPA requirements for all diesels enacted in 2008.

The regulations (finally requiring what has been required of gasoline engines for decades) came into effect in North America in two stages, as already mentioned, but yes... while all manufacturers use similar technology, maintainability varies by brand.

[JeffreyG]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

The regulations (finally requiring what has been required of gasoline engines for decades) came into effect in North America in two stages, as already mentioned, but yes... while all manufacturers use similar technology, maintainability varies by brand.

One could suggest it has even swung the other way. Reliance on a particle mass standard and not particle number forces DPFs on diesel engines as their 'smoke' consists of a lot of larger, not very dangerous, but massive particles. The newer gasoline direct injection engines create a large count of very fine, low mass particles. They can be certified without any kind of filter but I have concerns that all this <2.5 micron dust is not good for people.


We should probably be running particle filters on everything except SI CNG and port injected gasoline engines.

[75thRanger]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I don't see DEF as a significant cost, either; DEF consumption is typically expected to be about 1 gallon of DEF per 50 gallons of fuel, so the cost is not a big deal compared to the cost of fuel. The bigger diesel maintenance issue has always been in the fuel injection system, and now is in the emission control equipment (DPF, SCR system).

I have been using Lucas fuel additive in my F250 7.3 diesel for years. The claim is it keeps the injectors clean. I have a Fuel Transfer 75 gal aux tank and only fuel into it. The container of additive goes in before fueling. I think the container is about a quart.

I have replaced starter, alternator, pwr steering. and other parts but the engine itself hasn't cost me a cent. Service is done religiously!

355K and counting. I would have no qualms about taking a complete tour of the country with my truck.

[emers382]

Originally Posted by camp4528

I would really like to end up with one vehicle and really liked my test drive of the gas 3.6 a few weeks ago. If I'm going to end up with a separate tow vehicle anyway, I would just cave and get an F-150 Ecoboost or similar and park it with the trailer. [End of whine]

Steve I would not be concerned about using either the small GM with the 3.6l or an F150 with an EB. Until two years ago we ran two vehicles but did not really ned the second so just go with our F150 2.7EB. Other than tight garage space it's been fine as we get reasonable mileage when not towing (and towing as well) and we're not going far these days anyway. We had a trip to Winnipeg two weeks ago but do not intend on returning for quite some time. MB is now the covid hotspot, 480 new cases yesterday in our population of 1.4mil.

[AKRogers]

I tow a 21C with 2016 3.6 L gas Colorado. It does fine but will wind up to 4,000 RPM on steep climbs. My mileage drops from 21 to 13-14 MPG. If all I did was tow I’d opt for diesel but for daily driver in cold climate (Anchorage AK) I wouldn’t get it warmed up enough on shorter in town trips.

[camp4528]

Originally Posted by emers382

I would not be concerned about using either the small GM with the 3.6l or an F150 with an EB. Until two years ago we ran two vehicles but did not really ned the second so just go with our F150 2.7EB. Other than tight garage space it's been fine as we get reasonable mileage when not towing (and towing as well) and we're not going far these days anyway. We had a trip to Winnipeg two weeks ago but do not intend on returning for quite some time. MB is now the covid hotspot, 480 new cases yesterday in our population of 1.4mil.

Thanks for your reassuring thoughts. A Canyon would squeeze into our garage, but a half-ton would not.

And yes, most of Canada is also going through a surge of COVID. Scary stuff, but my wife and I are very lucky to be able to stay put, however we miss our grown kids terribly and have yet to meet our youngest grandchild who was born in far-away Yukon in July. [End of maudlin sentiment. ]

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by camp4528

Thanks for your reassuring thoughts. A Canyon would squeeze into our garage, but a half-ton would not.

And yes, most of Canada is also going through a surge of COVID. Scary stuff, but my wife and I are very lucky to be able to stay put, however we miss our grown kids terribly and have yet to meet our youngest grandchild who was born in far-away Yukon in July. [End of maudlin sentiment. ]

I have an older home with narrow garage doors, 7' I believe, that said, I have to retract my mirrors and the truck fits. So measure actual vehicle width, not with the mirrors. Having power retractable mirrors also helps ....

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by 75thRanger

I have replaced starter, alternator, pwr steering. and other parts but the engine itself hasn't cost me a cent.

Diesels can go a very long time without a fuel injection system failure, but when it happens, it hurt$. Good maintenance certainly helps, and perhaps the fuel additive does, too.

The rest of the diesel-specific maintenance issues apply to systems that don't exist on the 7.3, which belches particulates and oxides of nitrogen almost without restriction. That engine (the Navistar T444E) was replaced a year later (by the widely reviled Navistar VT engine, sold as the Powerstroke 6.0) because it could not meet that round of U.S. federal emissions standards.

[75thRanger]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Diesels can go a very long time without a fuel injection system failure, but when it happens, it hurt$. Good maintenance certainly helps, and perhaps the fuel additive does, too.

The rest of the diesel-specific maintenance issues apply to systems that don't exist on the 7.3, which belches particulates and oxides of nitrogen almost without restriction. That engine (the Navistar T444E) was replaced a year later (by the widely reviled Navistar VT engine, sold as the Powerstroke 6.0) because it could not meet that round of U.S. federal emissions standards.

Emissions. That's what our local Ford dealer told me at the time ,when I was bellyaching about changing a proven reliable engine.

[camp4528]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I have an older home with narrow garage doors, 7' I believe, that said, I have to retract my mirrors and the truck fits. So measure actual vehicle width, not with the mirrors. Having power retractable mirrors also helps ....

Thanks for refocusing me. Our garage is about 11’8” wide and the door opening 8’8”. A Canyon (85” including mirrors) fits through the door with about 10” each side. The F-150 seems to be about 85.5 with the electric retractable mirrors folded. Having to manually retract mirrors would not be an option at our house. I do have lots of time to decide (Delivery slot currently 2022). Thanks

[salmo7000]

Originally Posted by camp4528

Thanks for refocusing me. Our garage is about 11’8” wide and the door opening 8’8”. A Canyon (85” including mirrors) fits through the door with about 10” each side. The F-150 seems to be about 85.5 with the electric retractable mirrors folded. Having to manually retract mirrors would not be an option at our house. I do have lots of time to decide (Delivery slot currently 2022). Thanks

One thing to keep in mind, if you go with a 5.0TA or a 21, is you'll need to get mirror extensions for a Canyon or Colorado. I don't have them for my 19, and it's marginal. If the width of your storage space is an issue, I would get the kind that can be attached and removed easily. Unless things have changed since I bought mine, GMC and Chevy did not have an option for mirrors that expand and retract.

[camp4528]

Originally Posted by salmo7000

One thing to keep in mind, if you go with a 5.0TA or a 21, is you'll need to get mirror extensions for a Canyon or Colorado. I don't have them for my 19, and it's marginal. If the width of your storage space is an issue, I would get the kind that can be attached and removed easily. Unless things have changed since I bought mine, GMC and Chevy did not have an option for mirrors that expand and retract.

Thanks Salmo. More good advice. The Canyon options don’t include mirror extensions or electric retraction. I’ve seen some good recommendations for extensions in this forum and will keep them in mind. I’m also wondering whether the wireless backup camera, which I will probably get for - you know - wirelessly backing up (that’s an autopark thing, right? ) could be used while on the road making the standard mirrors acceptable.

[JeffreyG]

Originally Posted by camp4528

Thanks Salmo. More good advice. The Canyon options don’t include mirror extensions or electric retraction. I’ve seen some good recommendations for extensions in this forum and will keep them in mind. I’m also wondering whether the wireless backup camera, which I will probably get for - you know - wirelessly backing up (that’s an autopark thing, right? ) could be used while on the road making the standard mirrors acceptable.

Most reversing cameras and single and look from the center of the vehicle, so their view would be useless as an aid while driving.


There is a company called Clearview that sells a (expensive) replacement towing mirror for the GM compacts. They are normal extending towing mirrors and they retain the heat and power adjust features of the stock mirrors.

[camp4528]

Originally Posted by JeffreyG

Most reversing cameras and single and look from the center of the vehicle, so their view would be useless as an aid while driving.


There is a company called Clearview that sells a (expensive) replacement towing mirror for the GM compacts. They are normal extending towing mirrors and they retain the heat and power adjust features of the stock mirrors.

Thank you sir!!

I understand the truck’s backup camera wouldn’t help here, but I was planning to get the trailer’s (pricy) optional wireless backup camera system and saw others mentioned using that for seeing behind in traffic.

And I will try to keep the name Clearview in mind. It was that brand mentioned in other forum posts I have seen in the past.

Thanks again!

[Ronn]

Originally Posted by JeffreyG

Most reversing cameras and single and look from the center of the vehicle, so their view would be useless as an aid while driving.

I find it to be VERY useful as an aid while driving (especially when in traffic). I doubt I have viewed it 5% of the time when backing the trailer.

The rear view camera isn't the best for use as a rear view mirror because vehicles need to be very close behind to be visible, but it is great for switching lanes as you can see if you are beyond the front of the vehicle in either of the adjacent lanes.

I know many feel strongly different on this subject. I would suspect it varies on where and how you drive. Driving in heavy traffic is much easier when you can see what is behind you, adjacent to you and knowing you are clear of vehicles in the adjacent lane when changing lanes.

[stephen99]

The Milenco Grand Aero aux mirrors work well on the Canyon towing a 21. Had to tighten the clamps a couple of times to get them to be stable but otherwise not bad at all. I would prefer to have something like the Clearview mirrors but they are quite expensive and the cost doesn't include installation.

[06dak]

Just to add to that, I have a “stickie” (Microlite 23LB) with an 18 Colorado V6 and averaged 9-11mpg Highway. Never had a problem with power, but the truck running at 3-4000rpm was draining on longer drives. Add in less than 200miles between fill ups and it was just not a great experience. I actually sold the truck in August and plan to order a baby max in the Spring. I know there are older threads on here about gas vs diesel in the twins towing the 5.0TA, since I’d like one myself. If I remember right someone went from gas at 13mpg to diesel at 17mpg.

If you do get one of the twins, two aftermarket companies make replacement towing mirrors that are said to work really well (I think the companies are Boost and Clearview). Would be something worthwhile if you tow a lot as the clamp on ones are not great.

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by stephen99

The Milenco Grand Aero aux mirrors work well on the Canyon towing a 21. Had to tighten the clamps a couple of times to get them to be stable but otherwise not bad at all. I would prefer to have something like the Clearview mirrors but they are quite expensive and the cost doesn't include installation.

I used the Milenco Grand Aero mirrors when towing with a Tacoma. One point - at one time both mirrors (left & right) came with convex surfaces. I had to order from England to get a flat driver's side mirror, but I believe that the flat ones are available now here in the US: Amazon A bit more vibration visible with the flat mirror, but a larger image. I kept the convex on the passenger side...

[camp4528]

Originally Posted by 06dak

Just to add to that, I have a “stickie” (Microlite 23LB) with an 18 Colorado V6 and averaged 9-11mpg Highway. Never had a problem with power, but the truck running at 3-4000rpm was draining on longer drives. Add in less than 200miles between fill ups and it was just not a great experience. I actually sold the truck in August and plan to order a baby max in the Spring. I know there are older threads on here about gas vs diesel in the twins towing the 5.0TA, since I’d like one myself. If I remember right someone went from gas at 13mpg to diesel at 17mpg.

If you do get one of the twins, two aftermarket companies make replacement towing mirrors that are said to work really well (I think the companies are Boost and Clearview). Would be something worthwhile if you tow a lot as the clamp on ones are not great.

This is very useful information about real world experiences with the gas "twins". That trailer is only 400lb heavier and probably a bit less aerodynamic than the 5.0 but the towing experience may be quite similar. Thank you also for the mirror tips.

[Ronn]

Originally Posted by 06dak

Would be something worthwhile if you tow a lot as the clamp on ones are not great.

I have these which were recommended on this forum and I like them.They are easy on, easy off, very stable, non damaging and look like they are original equipment, not like an add on. They still fold in, the large mirror is the original mirror and can be adjusted inside the vehicle while the small mirror is adjustable, but manually.

I have an F150 but I should think that they would also have for other vehicles as well, I bought mine on Amazon. Brand is CIPA

I have a question for others who may have the CIPA brand. My mirrors are very stable and vibration free, most of the time when I put them on they are still good for me, but when adjusting for another driver they are VERY tight / hard to adjust. I thought I might be able to lube the mechanism, but I can't get the right angle to do such. What say others, are yours extremely tight as well?