Some 2020/21 Tow Vehicles

[BigSwede]

Originally Posted by JeffreyG

The 4Runner would merit more of a look, but what on earth is going on with those fuel consumption numbers? 19 highway? What does this thing get towing?

The 4Runner motor design is at least 10 years old (actually older than that really, in 2010 they added dual variable valve timing), extremely reliable but not as efficient as newer designs. Just depends what matters to you.

My FJ Cruiser has pretty much the same drivetrain as the 4Runner and I just towed my "new" 15A from Wyoming to Minnesota and got 14 to 17 mpg going 65 to 70 mph... but much of the time had a tailwind. With a headwind I would expect as low as 12 mpg based on towing some previous campers I have had.

Have you considered a Lexus GX-460? similar size and body on frame with off road capability as a 4Runner but with a V8 and a 6-speed.

[sherminator]

Here are the mirrors I put on my F150. They work great, and the stock mirrors weren't heated nor had turn signals. Now I have those functions. I pull the passenger side out all the way (about 3") and the driver side about 1", and I can see the clearance lights on both back corners. The convex mirrors get me the entire lane next to me, and I can pick up vehicles that are farther than a car length behind me. Anybody closer than that is definitely in the wrong place. I do not feel the need to have a backup camera, but I also have driven medium duty trucks with box bodies since I was teenager. (The backup camera on the F150 is a different matter, though. I love being able to see the hitch and coupler when hooking up.)

https://www.americantrucks.com/f150-...5f3h-p-fs.html

[emers382]

Originally Posted by Ronn

I have these which were recommended on this forum and I like them.They are easy on, easy off, very stable, non damaging and look like they are original equipment, not like an add on. They still fold in, the large mirror is the original mirror and can be adjusted inside the vehicle while the small mirror is adjustable, but manually.

I have an F150 but I should think that they would also have for other vehicles as well, I bought mine on Amazon. Brand is CIPA

I have a question for others who may have the CIPA brand. My mirrors are very stable and vibration free, most of the time when I put them on they are still good for me, but when adjusting for another driver they are VERY tight / hard to adjust. I thought I might be able to lube the mechanism, but I can't get the right angle to do such. What say others, are yours extremely tight as well?

Ronn these look just like the ones that I was given at the Escape rally in 2017 but I could never get the small mirrors to move at all, I just get a great view of the road and my trailer tires so gave up using them long ago. They're buried somewhere in my garage with plans to take them to give away at another rally.

I didn't find the back up camera helpful either and considering removing it and selling it although it would probably add value when we're too old to camp anymore and selling the trailer.

[Ronn]

Originally Posted by emers382

Ronn these look just like the ones that I was given at the Escape rally in 2017 but I could never get the small mirrors to move at all, I just get a great view of the road and my trailer tires so gave up using them long ago. They're buried somewhere in my garage with plans to take them to give away at another rally.

I didn't find the back up camera helpful either and considering removing it and selling it although it would probably add value when we're too old to camp anymore and selling the trailer.

Hi Adrian, don't sell yourself short, you'll live to be that old but I have my doubts you'll ever be too old to camp.

I have the mirrors adjusted for me but if I want to tweak them or adjust for someone else it becomes burdensome. After I posted that I sent a request to CIPA, hoping to get an answer back. I do like them as well as the camera. I find it quite very beneficial when driving through city traffic.

Stay healthy and we will see you next year!!

[emers382]

Originally Posted by Ronn

Hi Adrian, don't sell yourself short, you'll live to be that old but I have my doubts you'll ever be too old to camp.

I have the mirrors adjusted for me but if I want to tweak them or adjust for someone else it becomes burdensome. After I posted that I sent a request to CIPA, hoping to get an answer back. I do like them as well as the camera. I find it quite very beneficial when driving through city traffic.

Stay healthy and we will see you next year!!

Ronn, we had good news yesterday re my heart. Had a CT and all is normal, the heart hospital doesn't want me back. Just my own physician to follow and go for echocardiogram every two years. Recently have gotten my blood pressure reduced and today ran up a hill while walking the dog and wasn't winded or fatigued like I have been recently. So maybe we'll be camping into our 80's. Might even have to buy a new Escape one day

Yes we will see you next year. Hopefully Mississippi rally and you should think about coming up to the MB rally third weekend in August. Covid better be over so we can hold rallies.

[Ronn]

Originally Posted by emers382

Yes we will see you next year. Hopefully Mississippi rally and you should think about coming up to the MB rally third weekend in August. Covid better be over so we can hold rallies.

Great news on your heart, glad to hear it.

Hopefully see you before the Mississippi Rally (September). I think some other things might make it sooner (Osoyoos?).

Never know about the Manitoba, we would definitely be interested in heading up that way. Seems a lot goes on that time of year, we had planned on doing the Niagara Rally this year, so we had pre- planned it for next year.

So I take it you have not been able to see your daughter's since their move?

[cityofdestiny]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I don't see DEF as a significant cost, either; DEF consumption is typically expected to be about 1 gallon of DEF per 50 gallons of fuel, so the cost is not a big deal compared to the cost of fuel. The bigger diesel maintenance issue has always been in the fuel injection system, and now is in the emission control equipment (DPF, SCR system).

It was the fuel injection system, first the replacement of the high pressure pump for the common rail, followed in short order by the need to replace the injectors, that was the nail in the coffin on my diesel '06 Jeep Liberty. The injectors needed replacing at 150K miles and the cost was more than the value of the vehicle. I threw in the towel at that point.

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by Ronn

Great news on your heart, glad to hear it.

Hopefully see you before the Mississippi Rally (September). I think some other things might make it sooner (Osoyoos?).

Never know about the Manitoba, we would definitely be interested in heading up that way. Seems a lot goes on that time of year, we had planned on doing the Niagara Rally this year, so we had pre- planned it for next year.

So I take it you have not been able to see your daughter's since their move?

I hope to see both of you old fa##s again before quittin time.......

[Ronn]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I hope to see both of you old fa##s again before quittin time.......

I am with you there!!

I hope you doing well enough to start making spring plans (Osoyoos?)?

[ofamily]

Originally Posted by JeffreyG

The 4Runner would merit more of a look, but what on earth is going on with those fuel consumption numbers? 19 highway? What does this thing get towing?

Based on what you’re describing, I would advise AGAINST pulling a 19’ with a 4Runner. We love ours (is my DD) but it wasn’t great at pulling a 17’ Casita (also a fiberglass trailer) with less in the vehicle than what you described. We lasted exactly one season with the 4R as our TV. My husband then spent half of season 1 researching for a new TV and ended up buying a GMC 1500. The numbers may look like the 4R can pull what you need but the actual drive experience was disappointing and frustrating.

I have written a bit more about this is another post if you’d like to read more about my family’s experience. Cheers!

[bhonisch]

Originally Posted by AKRogers

Great analysis. I’m very happy with Colorado and 21C, but don’t have as high of a vehicle payload requirement.

I have a 2018 Chevy Colorado with the duramax 2.8L turbo diesel. My old vehicle was a 2005 Chevy Suburban. The Colorado tows betters, especially going over mountain passes at 11,000 feet. In a recent trip with 4 adults, Escape 21 camper and food and gear for 4 people, I averaged 16.5 mpg with the Colorado. The suburban would be at 11.5 mpg.
Thus far, my truck is 6 inches shorter than the suburban and will fit into my garage. I have the short box to have room in the garage.
Check out this vehicle to see if the capacities would work for you. Tow capacity is 7,700 pounds.
Good luck in your search

[Dave Walter]

Originally Posted by ofamily

Based on what you’re describing, I would advise AGAINST pulling a 19’ with a 4Runner. We love ours (is my DD) but it wasn’t great at pulling a 17’ Casita (also a fiberglass trailer) with less in the vehicle than what you described. We lasted exactly one season with the 4R as our TV. My husband then spent half of season 1 researching for a new TV and ended up buying a GMC 1500. The numbers may look like the 4R can pull what you need but the actual drive experience was disappointing and frustrating.

I have written a bit more about this is another post if you’d like to read more about my family’s experience. Cheers!

I towed my 19' Escape with a 2011 FJ Cruiser for 6 years and then with my 2020 4Runner for the past year. Both vehicles are very similar to each other in their towing capabilities and I have had no issues whatsoever towing the 2013 19' on a wide range of grades and weather conditions.

[skyfree]

Originally Posted by JeffreyG

If you drive fast, like 75mph towing, you will prefer the 3.6 gas engine as it makes more power. Either way if you go that fast in almost any tow vehicle you will burn a lot of fuel.

I tow my 17B with my Colorado ZR2 2.8 Duramax with the cruise control set at 74 mph on the freeway and it will usually hold the top gear -- BARELY. Any sort of hill and it will drop down to 5th.

The ZR2 gets worse MPG than the non-ZR2 model anyway, but at those speeds I get 15.3 - 16.8 mpg. A tailwind gives me higher number and a headwind gives me the lower one.

If I slow down, I've seen it as high as 19.

It's great being able to make some serious progress at that speed. My record is 870 miles in one day from Hamilton, MT to South Lake Tahoe, CA.

I've said this before on here and got seriously slammed for it, but you can fit 2 extra gallons in the "21" gallon tank. People have actually measured the capacity at close to 24 gallons in reality. The theory is that the filler tube extends down into the tank which creates a back pressure that shuts off the pump at 21 gallons. I always fill 2 extra gallons, have never overflowed, and have never had any emission issues or other issues doing this for 25,000 miles.

The extra 2 gallons means 23 gallons and at 16 mpg that is a decent 368 miles. If you tow at a more leisurely pace, you could easily stretch to 400 miles.

My Honda Pilot towing the same trailer at the same speed gets about 100 miles less range.

[JeffreyG]

Originally Posted by skyfree

The ZR2 gets worse MPG than the non-ZR2 model anyway, but at those speeds I get 15.3 - 16.8 mpg. A tailwind gives me higher number and a headwind gives me the lower one.

I'm leaning towards the diesel Colorado for many of the reasons detailed in my chart. Obviously I'd be at the Z71 and not the ZR2 as I need the higher load/tow capacity and if I'm far enough off road for a ZR2 to make sense, I've taken a wrong turn.

I've said this before on here and got seriously slammed for it, but you can fit 2 extra gallons in the "21" gallon tank. People have actually measured the capacity at close to 24 gallons in reality. The theory is that the filler tube extends down into the tank which creates a back pressure that shuts off the pump at 21 gallons. I always fill 2 extra gallons, have never overflowed, and have never had any emission issues or other issues doing this for 25,000 miles.

It's probably just foam that causes the shutoff. I presume you are waiting a minute and then filling the expansion volume.

That's probably not a big problem, a diesel tank won't have an evaporative system to kill. Your only real risk would be if you filled it all the way with cool diesel from underground and then immediately parked the truck in hot weather. Then it could expand to the point where the fuel has noplace good to go. But on a side of the road fuel stop and then continue, you'll burn off the fuel before anything bad could happen.

[GeorgeDoesIt]

I have a ‘20 SLT 4x4 DBL cab, the Crew Cab bed is 2” too small for Gooseneck hitch, this truck gets over 27 mpg and developes almost 960 ft lbs torque @ 1260 rpm! I tow my new 5.0 TA 5th wheel at 4900 lbs pin is 760 lbs, with a 18’ Sylvan Alum boat at 2200 lbs with ease! Plenty of giddyup and GO) if your thinking of the 21’ receiver hitch then Crew Cab would work, I much prefer the 5th wheel goose becaude I carry a 60 gal auto fill aux diesel tank behind the cab with flip locked bed cover, leave 2 panels down when towing and uou can order the 2500 pull out tow mirrors on the 1500 now, I run 10 ply tires and still have 3400 towing lbs before max.
Recommend AT4 model or the HD 1500 model. The engine coupled to the 10 speed tranny is a dream to drive! Eith full load at 75 mph, the tack is around 1600 rpm.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by GeorgeDoesIt

GMC DBL CAB 3.0L Turbo Diesel in line 6cyl
I have a ‘20 SLT 4x4 DBL cab...
... this truck gets over 27 mpg and developes almost 960 ft lbs torque @ 1260 rpm!

The Duramax 3.0 (order code LM2) inline-six available in a Silverado 1500 has a peak torque output of 460 lb-ft at 1500 RPM to 3000 RPM (and 95% of that or 437 lb-ft at 1250 RPM), which is roughly typical of turbodiesel automotive engines of this size. The "960 ft lbs torque @ 1260 rpm" specification sounds like a recent high-output variation of the much larger 6.7 L V8 Duramax, an unrelated engine available only in the "HD" (2500 and 3500) trucks.

2020 CHEVROLET SILVERADO’S NEW, ADVANCED 3.0L DURAMAX TURBO-DIESEL REDEFINES EXPECTATIONS

[Johnspierce]

Originally Posted by sherminator

Here are some recent real world numbers. Last week, I weighed our F150 4x4 SuperCrew, with a load of a 90# kayak, firewood, extra 20# propane tank, heavy duty canopy, 4 directors chairs, camp table, crab pot, fishing gear, a tool box, and 220# driver. It weighed out at 5900# with the WDH (including bars) and no trailer. With the 21NE hooked up using the WDH, it weighed out at 6300# - 200# under the 6500# GVWR, and without my wife and two granddaughters, who would exceed that 200#. (The granddaughters didn't go on this trip, and if they did, the kayak would not have, so I was very close to, but under my GVWR with my wife in the truck, and would be slightly over without the kayak and with the granddaughters.)

I may be confused here; you are saying your F150 loaded is 5900 lbs and the 21NE loaded is 6300 lbs? That's not a typo? I know 21NE is 3465 dry and most people say 4200-4300 wet; you are carrying an additional 2000 lb load in your 21NE? What is the GCWR on your rig?

[Rossue]

6300# is probably with the tongue weight.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by sherminator

Here are some recent real world numbers. Last week, I weighed our F150 4x4 SuperCrew, with a load of a 90# kayak, firewood, extra 20# propane tank, heavy duty canopy, 4 directors chairs, camp table, crab pot, fishing gear, a tool box, and 220# driver. It weighed out at 5900# with the WDH (including bars) and no trailer. With the 21NE hooked up using the WDH, it weighed out at 6300# - 200# under the 6500# GVWR, and without my wife and two granddaughters, who would exceed that 200#.

Originally Posted by Johnspierce

I may be confused here; you are saying your F150 loaded is 5900 lbs and the 21NE loaded is 6300 lbs? That's not a typo? I know 21NE is 3465 dry and most people say 4200-4300 wet; you are carrying an additional 2000 lb load in your 21NE?

The gross trailer weight - which includes the tongue weight - should not exceed the trailer's GVWR ... and that's only 5,000 pounds for a 21NE. No, the 21NE is not loaded to 6,300 pounds.

Originally Posted by Rossue

6300# is probably with the tongue weight.

I agree - Sherminator's 6,300 pound weight value and 6,500 pound GVWR would be for the truck (with part of the truck's load being the trailer tongue on the hitch), not for the trailer.

Originally Posted by sherminator

What is the GCWR on your rig?

The GCWR wasn't even mentioned because, as with most pickup trucks, it's not a concern. It's difficult to carry enough stuff in the truck to get up to GCWR for the whole rig even with the trailer loaded to its GVWR.

[jspierce]

This is a very interesting thread to me on several levels. I have a deposit on a 21NE to be delivered in April 2022, so I have some time to make the towing decision. Right now, I have a Coleman Evolution popup that I pull with my Nissan Xterra. The Xterra is rated at 5000 GVWR, has 261 hp, 285 lb ft torque, so pretty comparable to a Taco or 4Runner with maybe a little more torque.

I live in Denver, so the "Ike Challenge" is almost a weekend occurrence for me in the summer time Like Jeffrey, I have a 20 ft long garage and don't want to park my tow vehicle outside, so that means SUV or Mid-Size Truck. Preferably turbocharged since I do quite a bit of towing above 7,000 ft. Here's my current thoughts which might change over the next few months.

- Toyota Tacoma: kind of old tech. The best off road, but not turbo and marginal powerwise.
- Toyota 4Runner: see Taco
- Ford Explorer: Plenty of power, turbo, but definitely just a station wagon with a tow package; not very "off roadable"
- Ford Ranger: Gets super ratings for that marvelous eco-boost 4 cylinder. Decent offroad in FX4 trim. Some people say it rides and handles rough; need to test drive. It's in the running...
- Jeep Gladiator: Cool for it's excellent off-road abilities, but I've read it has some "issues" with towing stability.
- Chevy/GMC 3.6 gas engine "twins" - Decent off-roadability. Quick on the flats, kind of low on the torque and no turbo. In the running though...
- Chevy/GMC 2.8 Duramax "twins" - Decent off-roadability. Great torque. Kind of low on horsepower - another 30hp would be nice. Turbo, does well at altitude.

One thing that needs to be mentioned: The baby Duramax is the only mid-size diesel choice and as such is the only one with good engine braking. If you've ever actually done the "Ike Challenge" on I-70 from Eisenhower Tunnel to Denver, you know how important this is -- it's a really steep grade for about 40 miles and can be quite dangerous when towing a vehicle if you don't watch your braking. I'm leaning GMC Canyon AT-4 2.8 diesel right now, but keeping an open mind.

here's a link to the stats from various tow vehicles on the Ike Challenge:

https://tfltruck.com/2020/05/these-a...ntlet-podcast/