Survey - truck payload ratings with 5.0TA

[JeffreyG]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I'm still trying to figure out how buying a bigger, heavier vehicle increases tow rating. I has to haul it's own butt up the same hills.

Class 8 tractor typically weighs around 10 tons, nominal GCVWR 40 tons and frequently permitted to 55 tons and sometimes much more.


The reason a bigger, heavier vehicle often can tow and haul more comes from two points:
1) First, the vehicle is designed to haul itself, and then has some fractional margin for cargo and towing. So the more the vehicle itself is, the bigger (as an absolute number) the marginal extra is.
2) More plausibly, a bigger vehicle is expected to tow and carry more and is designed to do so. That's the story behind the class 8 tractor I described above.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

well the GVWR is primarily determined by the suspension, brakes, and wheels, as well as the structural strength of the chassis and drive train. the curb weight is what it weighs when its built and equipped as it came out the door from the factory. the payload is the difference. so my Tacoma weighed about 4100 lbs curb weight, with a 5300 lb GVWR leaving a 1200 lb payload, while your Tundra weighs about 5900 lbs curb with a GVWR of 7100 lbs, leaving 1200 lb payload.

Exactly! (Except that drivetrain capacity doesn't matter to GVWR, only to GCWR.)
More engine, more body size, bigger wheels and tires, and more stuff in general adds up quickly.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I'm still trying to figure out how buying a bigger, heavier vehicle increases tow rating. I has to haul it's own butt up the same hills.

The same thing occurs to me every I passed a big diesel pickup towing a trailer up a mountain grade with my minivan and trailer.

Originally Posted by JeffreyG

The reason a bigger, heavier vehicle often can tow and haul more comes from two points:
1) First, the vehicle is designed to haul itself, and then has some fractional margin for cargo and towing. So the more the vehicle itself is, the bigger (as an absolute number) the marginal extra is.
2) More plausibly, a bigger vehicle is expected to tow and carry more and is designed to do so...

All true...
plus, trailer weight rating can be limited in some cases (the Jeep Wrangler is a notable example) by factors such as wheelbase which affect stability and the ability to handle hitch load. Even with the same payload, and the same amount of GCWR in excess of curb weight, a heavier, longer, and (to much less extent) wider vehicle of the same design will be a more effective tow vehicle.

[Hawkeye Ed]

As people are pointing out, two trucks with the same payload rating can have a big difference in what they're rated to tow.

The payload weight that we're talking about in this topic is the weight of people and cargo in the truck cabin and bed (including fifth wheel pin weight or pull trailer tongue weight but not the weight of the trailer carried by the trailer tires). Payload is calculated by subtracting the actual curb weight of an empty truck from the truck's GVWR - Gross Vehicle Weight Rating.

The GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) is the number you also want to look for. It includes the truck's empty curb weight, the truck's payload, AND the extra weight of the trailer carried by the trailer's tires.

Take, for example, my 2011 F-250 6.2 liter V8. One sticker on the door frame says the GVWR of the truck is 9900 pounds; the other sticker says that the payload, "combined weight of occupants and cargo," is 3281 pounds.

The stickers don't give the curb weight of my empty truck so I weighed it at a scale. It weighs about 6500 pounds. That explains how the manufacturer calculates the payload rating: "Payload Capacity = GVWR – Curb Weight".

But if you're towing a trailer you also want to be concerned about the GCWR - Gross Combined Weight Rating. GCWR is the maximum allowable weight of both the loaded tow vehicle and the loaded trailer that the tow vehicle can handle safely. This maximum combined weight rating is determined by the manufacturer but is sometimes hard to find. Luckily for me, Ford publishes every year a RV & Trailer Towing Guide that contains all sorts of towing information for all Ford vehicles.

The Ford guide for 2011 shows the GCWR for my F-250 to be 19,000 pounds. That number theoretically would allow me to pull a trailer that weighs about 10,000 pounds, even with my truck fully loaded to its GVWR of 9900 pounds. (Remember, 10-15% of the trailer weight is already included in the truck's GVWR as the weight on the king pin or tow ball.)

Escape Trailer estimates our 2020 5.0 trailer weighs about 4000 pounds dry with a 5500 pound maximum GVWR. That means I can add about 1500 pounds of water, gear and beer and not be too heavy. So I figure that my trailer is only half the weight of what I could tow without exceeding the GCWR of truck, payload and trailer. No wonder it tows so easy!

[azjack]

I guess the 20 inch wheels is what costs me the 6 lbs. I also have a 21 RAM, 61/2 bed club cab with 5.7 engine and my sticker says 1799#
AZjack

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye Ed

As people are pointing out, two trucks with the same payload rating can have a big difference in what they're rated to tow.

The payload weight that we're talking about in this topic is the weight of people and cargo in the truck cabin and bed (including fifth wheel pin weight or pull trailer tongue weight but not the weight of the trailer carried by the trailer tires). Payload is calculated by subtracting the actual curb weight of an empty truck from the truck's GVWR - Gross Vehicle Weight Rating.
...
But if you're towing a trailer you also want to be concerned about the GCWR - Gross Combined Weight Rating. GCWR is the maximum allowable weight of both the loaded tow vehicle and the loaded trailer that the tow vehicle can handle safely...

Exactly. Maximum trailer weight isn't a concern for the full-sized pickup trucks which might be used to tow an Escape 5.0, but payload is often an issue... and that's why this thread is about payload.

[ghampshi]

Toyota Tundra- 1685#

[StillCampin]

My payload capacity is adequate for my E5.0 with spare for cargo.

And if you pass me going up the mountains it is because: a) you are likely speeding and b) I like to keep my milage above what you would likely be getting. And, I'll bet I use my service brakes 99% less than you do going down - with the computer maxing the mpg display @ 99.

[PGDriver]

Having just gone through all this (payload ratings) with my new truck/RV purchase and having a lot of experience with scales here is some advice.
First what the truck salesperson tell you is the payload because that’s what the sticker says is wrong. The only way to calculate the payload is to load the cab with everything that you normal have in it including occupants and a full tank of fuel and scale it, this value will definitely be different then the payload sticker.
The sticker on the door frame is the maximum payload of a base truck.
The discrepancy on my previous 2015 GMC Sierra 1500 was just under 400lbs.

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by PGDriver

Having just gone through all this (payload ratings) with my new truck/RV purchase and having a lot of experience with scales here is some advice.
First what the truck salesperson tell you is the payload because that’s what the sticker says is wrong. The only way to calculate the payload is to load the cab with everything that you normal have in it including occupants and a full tank of fuel and scale it, this value will definitely be different then the payload sticker.
The sticker on the door frame is the maximum payload of a base truck.
The discrepancy on my previous 2015 GMC Sierra 1500 was just under 400lbs.

Hi: PGDriver... No more ice-cream for you!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[JeffreyG]

Originally Posted by PGDriver

First what the truck salesperson tell you is the payload because that’s what the sticker says is wrong. The only way to calculate the payload is to load the cab with everything that you normal have in it including occupants and a full tank of fuel and scale it, this value will definitely be different then the payload sticker.

The people inside the truck are part of the "cargo" or "payload". The number on the door jam is what the truck can carry, starting from a completely empty truck.

The sticker on the door frame is the maximum payload of a base truck.

No it isn't. They actually weigh your truck at the factory and print the sticker based on what it weighs (the curb weight). The number is correct for your truck with all factory installed options.

It does not include any dealer installed options.

The difference (GVWR - curb weight = cargo) number has to include everything and everyone you put in the truck including the driver.


If you check a bunch of trucks all of the same make and year, they will have different curb weights depending on options. If they just printed the base truck curb weight, they'd all be the same.

[Colorado Kirk]

Here’s our “rig”...
-2019 Ram, crew cab, 4x4, 5.6’ bed
-curb weight 5757lb , 1343lb payload, 7100lb gvwr
-B&W turnover ball w/Andersen Ult Aluminum
-My wife and I and Teddy and Dolly (155lbs of Lab)

Our actual curb weight after a full tank and the additional hitch weight and assuming a 630lb pin weight, gives us about 55lbs of wiggle room...������.
Our trailer is due out of production on 4/19/21.

[DFlater]

My sister-in-law’s 2021 Canyon AT4 2.8 Duramax payload is 1305lbs, one thin friend less capacity than Donna D’s F150.

[PJW]

2018 F-150 - 1405 lbs.
5.0L, 3.73 diff, 7000 gvwr/tow package, 136 litre tank, 5.5 box with tow mirrors in "Platinum" trim
Using Anderson rail hitch.
Three occupants - two human.
Little gear in truck or box. Heavy items in trailer. Truck squats 1 inch.
Tows great, no mechanical issues @ 40,000 kms. Get the tow mirrors!

[Jeremy Kessenich]

2017 GMC Canyon 2.8 Duramax long bed, SLT, 1289 lbs

[Tin]

Originally Posted by PGDriver

Having just gone through all this (payload ratings) with my new truck/RV purchase and having a lot of experience with scales here is some advice.
First what the truck salesperson tell you is the payload because that’s what the sticker says is wrong. The only way to calculate the payload is to load the cab with everything that you normal have in it including occupants and a full tank of fuel and scale it, this value will definitely be different then the payload sticker.
The sticker on the door frame is the maximum payload of a base truck.
The discrepancy on my previous 2015 GMC Sierra 1500 was just under 400lbs.

Someone gave you some bad info.

[Tin]

Originally Posted by JeffreyG

The people inside the truck are part of the "cargo" or "payload". The number on the door jam is what the truck can carry, starting from a completely empty truck.

No it isn't. They actually weigh your truck at the factory and print the sticker based on what it weighs (the curb weight). The number is correct for your truck with all factory installed options.

It does not include any dealer installed options.

The difference (GVWR - curb weight = cargo) number has to include everything and everyone you put in the truck including the driver.


If you check a bunch of trucks all of the same make and year, they will have different curb weights depending on options. If they just printed the base truck curb weight, they'd all be the same.

bingo we have a winner.

[Tin]

Originally Posted by Colorado Kirk

Here’s our “rig”...
-2019 Ram, crew cab, 4x4, 5.6’ bed
-curb weight 5757lb , 1343lb payload, 7100lb gvwr
-B&W turnover ball w/Andersen Ult Aluminum
-My wife and I and Teddy and Dolly (155lbs of Lab)

Our actual curb weight after a full tank and the additional hitch weight and assuming a 630lb pin weight, gives us about 55lbs of wiggle room...������.
Our trailer is due out of production on 4/19/21.

Your pin weight according to ETI should be min. 19 percent of your trailer weight. My well equipped second gen 5.0 fully loaded for camping weighs 5,000 lbs. When I load my trailer, I try to distribute the weight in order to maintain a proper 19 percent pin weight. Normally over 900 lbs pin weight. This is the main reason I chose a truck with plenty of payload.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Tin

Your pin weight according to ETI should be min. 19 percent of your trailer weight.

As we discussed a couple of years ago, that 19% "minimum" is nonsense. It was copied into Escape's manual from some random source by someone who had no idea what they were doing. It is wildly inappropriate for the Escape 5.0, of any generation. Most properly loaded Escape fifth-wheels are well under 19% pin weight.

But if you are going to carry 900 pounds of pin weight, then it certainly is advisable to allow for that in the required payload of the truck.

[arniesea]

Payload on my 2017 Tundra Platinum is 1190 LBS. With With Tundra's the bigger the cab, the shorter the bed the less the payload. The towing capacity is 9500 LBS. With my B&W turnover ball, Andersen Ultimate Hitch, and Roadmaster Active Suspension, my payload is reduced by 120 LBS for true payload is 1070 LBS.

Pin weight of ~ 650 + wife, myself, our little dog, we only have a little more than 100 LBS left for other stuff. Therefore I don't carry anything heavy like tools etc in the truck.

However the 5.7 L V8 is a beast and I have no trouble loading up the trailer and pulling it effortlessly all day long!!

(Note: leaked photos of the 2022 Tundra show 6 lug wheels so it appears that Toyota is finally addressing the payload weaknesses of their 1/2 ton truck. The other rumor is the availability of a V6 / Hybrid version which would address the poor milage on these trucks.)