Tesla truck to revolutionize RV towing?

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Yes, they know how much you use, they show you that consumption, and they encourage less consumption (energy suppliers and drug and alcohol suppliers being nearly the only businesses expected to discourage consumption of their own product)... but they are not part of some sinister conspiracy to invade your privacy, report you to anyone, or control your consumption, as suggested by some people.

Well, in Jon's case his utility is verging on violating his privacy by publicly comparing his usage to his neighbors' (though I guess not by name, yet), and it is implicitly trying to control his consumption by "nudging" him to conserve.

My utility compares my current usage to my past usage, which is useful enough to me. But my electricity usage is no one's business but my own. If my neighbors and I were to start receiving emails comparing our electricity usage, it would not go well. The utility would take a lot of flack and would have to rescind the program.

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

Well, in Jon's case his utility is verging on violating his privacy by publicly comparing his usage to his neighbors' (though I guess not by name, yet), and it is implicitly trying to control his consumption by "nudging" him to conserve.

My utility compares my current usage to my past usage, which is useful enough to me. But my electricity usage is no one's business but my own. If my neighbors and I were to start receiving emails comparing our electricity usage, it would not go well. The utility would take a lot of flack and would have to rescind the program.

National Grid only shows MY consumption in the email & letter to ME. No names in the average or "more efficient" neighbors, just a bar graph comparing each group.

They do offer very good deals on 6 & 12 packs of LED lamps, and "Smart" thermostats, as well as offers of $100.00 cash back if you let them take away your old refrigerator (hoping you will replace it with a more efficient one).
Seasonal cash back offers on furnaces & air conditioners as well.

[Mike Lewis]

It's still a creepy attempt to control behavior imho.



The old fridges are less efficient but much more durable. I've been told that EPA regs hamper the longevity of new refrigerators.

[Iowa Dave]

When they give you the “nudge” comparison with your neighbors, you need to write them back and tell them your neighbors aren’t running dozens of grow lights like you are. Then when the authorities show up you’ll know they are sharing the information. And you can show them your tomato plants.
Iowa Dave

[Mike Lewis]

While investigating the other EVs on the market I saw this:

https://insideevs.com/news/362437/hy...ric-explosion/

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

While investigating the other EVs on the market I saw this:

https://insideevs.com/news/362437/hy...ric-explosion/

Makes you want to run out and buy one NOT ! Pat

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

While investigating the other EVs on the market I saw this:

https://insideevs.com/news/362437/hy...ric-explosion/

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

Makes you want to run out and buy one NOT ! Pat

There is a problem with battery-electric cars spontaneously burning up, typically while just parked; in some cases it may be related to battery cells which have been damaged by collisions or road debris, but that probably doesn't account for all incidents. Gasoline and diesel cars and light trucks also burn themselves up, and there have been several recalls of vehicles of various brands to address the faults which led to the fires; the faults are typically related to corrosion and/or fluid leaks causing electrical shorts and subsequent fires. It appears that buyers are not stopped from running out and buying some of the most popular models in North America by those problems.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

There is a problem with battery-electric cars spontaneously burning up, typically while just parked; in some cases it may be related to battery cells which have been damaged by collisions or road debris, but that probably doesn't account for all incidents. Gasoline and diesel cars and light trucks also burn themselves up, and there have been several recalls of vehicles of various brands to address the faults which led to the fires; the faults are typically related to corrosion and/or fluid leaks causing electrical shorts and subsequent fires. It appears that buyers are not stopped from running out and buying some of the most popular models in North America by those problems.

Still probably will never buy one . Pat

[Defenestrator]

It's even odds at best as to whether it hits production, but the "tank turn" mode on the Rivian looks really interesting for parking in tight campgrounds. Hopefully at least some other manufactures will do something similar.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Defenestrator

It's even odds at best as to whether it hits production, but the "tank turn" mode on the Rivian looks really interesting for parking in tight campgrounds. Hopefully at least some other manufactures will do something similar.

I think it amusing that they call it a "tank turn" - while that's a reasonable description, the average person never sees a tank and tanks rarely spin in place, but skid-steer loaders (such as Bobcats) work this way everywhere, every day. "Zero turn" lawn mowers do this, too, but the skid-steers do it on four non-steering wheels. The skid-steers even do it on rubber tires like the truck, not steel tracks. I guess "skid steer" doesn't sound as impressive.

It's amusing, but not very useful because it will only work with a very slippery and flat surface. If this were done on grass in campground, that patch of ground would soon look like the mudpit used in the Rivian video. The longer the wheelbase of the vehicle doing this, the worse the skidding and destruction, which is why skid-steers are short. Whether it's on tires or tracks, and whether the drive system is mechanical (as in a tank), hydraulic (as in the skid-steers and mowers), or electric (in the Rivian), it is only possible because the left and right sides are driven separately, by a system which can go forward on one side and in reverse on the other. None of the current mass production EVs have separate left and right motors (although the Rimac Concept One is well known for this feature), but that's Rivian's design, so it must have occured to someone that the skid steering was possible. It's a more extreme version of what every new production car does today, applying different drive forces on the left and right to adjust the attitude of the car for stability control.

The Tesla pickup won't be able to do this, given the currently available description, because it only has one motor for the front (and the dual rear motors are an option).

This would work even better if the wheels all turned inward, but most vehicles don't have rear-wheel steering, those that do can't steer the rear wheels to much of an angle, and no one has the left and right front wheels separately steered. There was a Jeep concept vehicle which actually turned on the spot by steering all four wheels inward and driving them in different directions: it was the Hurricane of 2005, and it called this mode "zero steer".

[Mike Lewis]

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...-while-parked/

Now that I've gotten interested in EVs, I just can't let this stuff go.

Happy New Year, everybody!

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...-while-parked/

One of the realities of EV batteries is that they need to be monitored even while the car is inactive. Combine that with Tesla's obsession with connectivity and updates, and you have a car with a control system which is always active. So instead of getting a trouble indication when you turn the key, you get it earlier; that could be helpful, and might not indicate a vehicle which is prone to failure.

In contrast, the alternator died in my ordinary (gas engine) car and there was no indication on the dash of any issue, even while driving - no little red icon of a battery, nothing. When the battery was nearly dead from running the car without a charging system, various systems started failing (starting with traction control and ABS, then escalating) as a result of low voltage. Forget notification while parked - I would have been happy to get a light on the dash when the alternator died (like any other normal car would have), not a hundred kilometres down the highway into mountains on a Sunday.

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

Now that I've gotten interested in EVs, I just can't let this stuff go.

Warning: imminent danger of major time consumption.

[Greg A]

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/t...183646585.html

Little different information than the doom n gloom. A solid buy of Tesla stock in June and you'd be paying cash for a new Escape.

[Mike Lewis]

They even have electric airplanes now. Canadian ones, at that:

https://www.flightglobal.com/aerospa...136071.article

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

They even have electric airplanes now. Canadian ones, at that:

https://www.flightglobal.com/aerospa...136071.article

This has been an interesting project to watch. There are battery-electric aircraft available for sale now (from Pipistrel), with normal certification. Harbour Air claims that their converted Beaver is a "first", but they mean first for commercial (carrying paying passengers) operation... although they're a couple of years away from doing that.

Harbour Air's routes are all quite short, and in an environmentally sensitive area (that is, an area with a lot people who like to protest when other people do things which might endanger the environment), so the company is a good case for early adoption of battery-electric flight. It seems like every time someone interviews people from either Harbour Air or Magnix, the story changes about which aircraft will be converted and how close the current conversion is to the configuration for commercial service. It looks like for now the passenger capacity might be zero, with the battery in the passenger cabin, but the intention would be to put the battery packs under the floor (where the stock fuel tanks are) and carry a normal passenger load.

The DHC-2 Beaver is an old Canadian designed and built aircraft, and Harbour Air is Canadian, but the conversion is being done with components and support from an Australian-American company (MagniX), and likely Chinese or Korean battery components (they aren't saying what battery they are using).

Anyone who finds this field interesting might want to watch for what Viking Air does - I know that they are working on something, and can guess what, but there is no public information yet. Viking is the type certificate holder for all de Havilland Canada models (including the Beaver), and still builds the DHC-6 Twin Otter.

[bpjod]

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

Makes you want to run out and buy one NOT ! Pat

Regarding vehicle fires, you realize that every year in the US alone there are more than 171,000 gas vehicles that catch on fire (nearly 500 every day!)? [Source: FEMA Highway Vehicle Fires 2014-2016]

Meanwhile, in electric vehicle land, you can read about every electric vehicle that's ever caught on fire. It's a short read, it won't take you long.

In 2019 alone:

Feb: Hyundai, Kia recall over 500,000 vehicles due to engine fire risk
Feb: Honda Recalling 106,683 Pickups for Catching Fire When Washed
Mar: Audi Recalls Nearly 75,000 Vehicles Due To Fire Risk
Apr: 327K Ford F-Series pickups recalled again for potential fire hazard
Apr: BMW adds 185,000 vehicles to total recall of 925,000 over fire risk
Sep: 494,000 Ram trucks recalled for fire hazard - Detroit Free Press
Oct: FCA Recalling 160K Ram Pickups for Potential Fire Issue
Nov: Fiat Chrysler is recalling over 110,000 vans in North America because cooling fan motors can overheat and cause fires
Nov: Nissan recalls over 450,000 vehicles for risk of fire
Nov: GM recalls 640,000 pickups for fire risk
Nov: More than 500K Ford pickups recalled over post-crash interior fire risk

This was just a quick search. I'm sure there are more.

Frankly I can't figure out why anyone would ever sit down in a vehicle powered by exploding a highly flammable fuel if they were worried about fires, but humans are notoriously poor at assessing risk.

Another important point is the nature of the fires. Electric vehicle fires are typically very slow to start and when they do start, they slowly build up. There's usually plenty of time to escape. Gasoline is far more explosive and can suddenly explode with little to no warning.

[Mike Lewis]

I remember reading an article about a Tesla that caught fire in a garage and caused substantial damage to the house. A lawyer was interviewed who specializes in vehicle fires, so apparently there are enough of them to support lawyers. He said that he would never park a car in a garage because of the potential for fire.

Intrigued, I asked my auto insurance agent about this. He didn't think there were enough garage fires caused by cars to merit concern. So I don't know who to believe.

[bpjod]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

I remember reading an article about a Tesla that caught fire in a garage and caused substantial damage to the house. A lawyer was interviewed who specializes in vehicle fires, so apparently there are enough of them to support lawyers. He said that he would never park a car in a garage because of the potential for fire.

Intrigued, I asked my auto insurance agent about this. He didn't think there were enough garage fires caused by cars to merit concern. So I don't know who to believe.

Well I'm sure the FEMA article can be believed. That's 171K vehicle fires per year. Only some of those would be in garages. Others would be from collisions, in parking lots, etc. Say 1/4th in the garage, sound reasonable?

In 2017 there were 272,480K vehicle registrations in the US. So, only 0.06% actually catch on fire each year. With my above assumption that means only 0.015% catch on fire in a garage. I suspect there are many other causes of house fires that are more common causes, but the odds of a vehicle in a garage causing a fire are non-zero.

While you're pondering the risks associated with vehicles catching on fire in the garage, don't forget about the carbon monoxide poisoning risks they pose. Make sure your fire, smoke and CO detectors are all in good working shape.

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

... I would have been happy to get a light on the dash when the alternator died (like any other normal car would have), not a hundred kilometres down the highway into mountains on a Sunday.

My alternator failure story started decades ago when my headlights dimmed and windshield wipers slowed while driving my 1984 Plymouth Reliant K-car through a tropical storm on I-10 near Slidell Louisiana. I was able to make an off ramp and drive it into a nearby truck repair shop that said they had just finished rebuilding an alternator that would work. After hearing a stream of curse words, tools flying across the shop and a cutting torch light up, the red-faced shop foreman told me they had burned out my wiring harness, and he needed me to call a tow truck to get my car off their property. Not wanting to end up a statistic in the local paper of a back-water town in Louisiana, I bit my lip and had it towed to a Chrysler dealership across town. Turned out the truck shop had wired their "rebuilt" alternator wrong, and it had a dead short in it. But luckily, a fuseable link had saved the bulk of the wiring harness. Once up and running again, I took the bad alternator back to the truck shop and told the guy what he could do with it. Moral of the story - vehicles aren't the only thing that should come equipped with an "idiot" light.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

A lawyer was interviewed who specializes in vehicle fires, so apparently there are enough of them to support lawyers.
...
Intrigued, I asked my auto insurance agent about this. He didn't think there were enough garage fires caused by cars to merit concern. So I don't know who to believe.

A lawyer needs only a single case to employ him; an insurer is concerned with average losses versus premium, so a few cases among a large client base are not a problem. Their perspectives are driven by different priorities; I believe that both of their views are valid.

I wouldn't hesitate to park a vehicle of any type in a garage, except for one which may vent a hazardous vapour, such as propane, or natural gas from an LNG vehicle.