Towing a 21 with a Mid Size Suv

[John in Santa Cruz]

re towing a E21...

We had a Casita 16, and a Tacoma 4.0L V6 stick shift 6-speed 4x4 "TRD Off Road"...

We used that Tacoma to pull the Escape home from Houston TX to Santa Cruz by way of Reno. And we decided to get a bigger tow.

the Tacoma towed it just fine, in terms of handling. It had airbags so I could level it, and with the 6-speed stick, performance wasn't an issue ... But fuel economy was, with the small tank of the Tacoma we were getting really bad tank mileages, and the tacomas total payload was 1200 lbs, -150 for the fiberglass shell, and the racks on top of the shell. my wife and I are plus sized, so subtract 500 more, and the 400-500 lb tongue weight of the E21, wasnt much left over ...

but the biggest issue was the per tank gas mileage. In Texas, westbound on I40, we got like 9-10MPG trying to not gte run over in the truck lanes.

The F250 diesel we got is ridiculous overkill... its rated to tow 12500 lbs, or carry 2000. its 7.3 diesel gets 15-20 MPG highway with any load if you just cruise. The 8 foot long bed can hold viritally anything we''d ever want to carry.

We had a towing incident last year coming home from Utah,, where the hitch ball stripped off the tow bar... with the F250 it was just a few moments of excitement while I got it under control. with a smaller/lighter vehicle, it coould have been a disaster with the 4500 lb E21 whipping back and forth on the safety chains.

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

Abilities, attention to detail, confidence, planning ahead, and the fact that when I’m driving I am only focused on driving not a couple dickey birds in a courtship dance in the field, has allowed me to tow 19 and 21 foot Escapes Tens of Thousands of miles over the past 7 years from South Carolina to British Columbia and from Niagara Falls Ontario to Arizona without incident, mechanical failure, a ticket from law enforcement, or an obscene gesture from a fellow motorist with our 2012 and now 2018 Toyota Highlander.

Usually I can read a sentence in one breath, but three?

OK, in my younger days I could have read this in two.

Enjoy,

Perry

[Iowa Dave]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

Usually I can read a sentence in one breath, but three?

OK, in my younger days I could have read this in two.

Enjoy,

Perry

Stream of Consciousness
If it was good enough for Dostoevsky, Woolf, Faulkner, Kerouac and Beckett it’s good good enough for:
Iowa Dave wordSmith
Have a great day!

[Rich30039]

We tow our 21 with a 2016 Explorer Sport. 3.5L Ecoboost. No problems going over mountains, or coming down the mountains. Just wish it had a bigger fuel tank. What were they thinking? 18 gallons?

[thoer]

I respected Dave's real world experience with tens of thousands of safe satisfied towing so much that I went with essentially the same setup - and am just as happy and satisfied. I once calculated that my Highlander will spend far less than 1% of its life towing up and down steep mountain passes (which it does just fine and completely safely)

[dfandrews]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

Usually I can read a sentence in one breath, but three?

OK, in my younger days I could have read this in two.

Enjoy,

Perry

Perry, I think that that was Dave's stream of consciousness flowing there,; that and trying to finish quickly before the traffic light changed to green!


Edit: by the way, Dave: How many traffic lights on that portion of US-30? Or just stops and yields?

[Iowa Dave]

I never text and drive but I have been known to text and drink. We are having a bluebird day with a breeze out of the west. Humidity dropped about 50 points since yesterday so very pleasant. Camping in the back yard and have my starter fire put together.
Iowa Dave

[dfandrews]

1½ cents here:
Our mid-size SUV is a 2011 Honda Pilot (V6 - 3.5L, 250 HP, 250±ft/lb torque, 5 speed), which is certainly adequate for our 17. But, we traverse the Sierra Nevada's, the Cascade range, and the Rocky Mts regularly (in fact, our Coast Range in Ventura County takes us and our rig to 6000 ft.++ occasionally), so, if we had a E19 or 21, We would want more. An 8-speed tranny would be nice.
Regarding brakes, the combo of a disc-brake equipped SUV, and a trailer with completely adequate electric brakes, works fine.
But: Honda Pilot front disc brakes, when overheated, over time, tend to warp, so I have replaced the rotors with new Centrics.

[Losangeles]

Originally Posted by Rossue

Yes- John (LosAngeles) did. Don't think he liked the performance as he spent a bit of time here sounding out replacements. It didn't have enough torque for his expectations it seems. Finally sold the 21 and has a truck camper now with an F-350.

We still own and drive the MDX.... we just dont tow with it anymore. Awesome vehicle.

so we first owned a 17' Casita and the MDX was fine.

however with a LIGHTLY loaded 21' Escape with EMPTY grey and black tanks and 1/2 full Fresh tank.... if there was any sort of hill... the MDX would really struggle.

Common in So Cal area is a slight uphill with a freeway on ramp, (due to overpass) and then a merge at the top. Hair raising, as the MDX just could not get up to speed...

It is all about TORQUE and not HP.

Also - going up the "grapevine" north of LA (not super steep) we'd have to do 45 MPH and be passed by trucks.... not fun.

also got about 8 mph towing the E21.

so to the original poster.... i would not recommend it. Sure we got A to B.... but the lack of torque was pretty serious.

Now we have an F350 and a Hallmark truck camper, and it is amazing, with a price tag to match.

Last weekend we were camping on a private land, muddy ground, 4x4.... no issues. love it.

john

[Bluesky]

After researching SUVs to use for towing we decided go with the VW Touareg Diesel. We like the easier to get in to SUVs and this fits us perfectly. The Porsche Cayenne was also a contender but honestly the VW was more comfortable for us plus we wont have to pay the "Porsche Tax" for all the little maintenance items. Now we just need to wait out the delivery time for the 23.

[marktracie]

Please everyone just buy a dually truck with a diesel and you will never have to worry. Just my 2 cents.

[7th Heaven]

Originally Posted by LRCURTIS

Will the MDX tow a 21 safely - depends on where you are going to travel. A 21 fully laden would be towards the upper end of the tow rating of the MDX. Generally flat terrain at modest elevation - sure. Lots of elevation gain at altitude - maybe not the best choice. However, sensible driving and careful maintenance will play as big a part as ratings. You will definitely want to watch brake wear closely, use tow mirrors (or rear camera of the 21) and keep the speed down vs. unladen travel. We tow a 19 with a Cayenne diesel which is similar in size to an MDX but has a more robust suspension and tow rating (7700) plus a lot more torque and we feel very confident towing nearly anywhere. Good luck.

Agree with all of the above. When we first picked up our 21 we were driving a Volvo XC90. As most of our early trips were along the California Coast and Parks it towed well for us. We did notice that going into the foothills of California with the increased elevation our speeds were impacted ( Not that were were ever in a hurry to get anyplace) .

One thing to keep in mind (as was the case with the XC90) towing capacity is reduced when cargo is being carried in the vehicle.

As our family expanded ( We are now 5 + Dog) we needed more space in the Cab as well as better climbing ( and more importantly) descending /breaking performance

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by 7th Heaven

One thing to keep in mind (as was the case with the XC90) towing capacity is reduced when cargo is being carried in the vehicle.

or conversely, the payload of the vehicle is reduced by the trailer...

case in point: 2008 Tacoma 4x4 manual access cab, factory payload rating: 1200 lbs.
subtract 200 lbs for the fiberglass shell
subtract 500 lbs for the E21's typical hitch weight
subtract 500 lbs for driver + passenger and minimal personal stuff

ooops, nothing left.

[Bea]

Originally Posted by Bluesky

After researching SUVs to use for towing we decided go with the VW Touareg Diesel. We like the easier to get in to SUVs and this fits us perfectly. The Porsche Cayenne was also a contender but honestly the VW was more comfortable for us plus we wont have to pay the "Porsche Tax" for all the little maintenance items. Now we just need to wait out the delivery time for the 23.

Hi Bluesky, We have some friends that tow (their 4000# RV) with a VW Touareg Diesel and they love it - a nice TV and a normal everyday vehicle. You may already know but just a heads up on the emissions recall on them. The good news is that our friends did not notice any decline in towing ability after the emissions recall work was done on their VW Touareg Diesel.

The only minor draw back they said was how much narrower the Touareg is compared to their 7 ft wide RV. Moreover, I assume the new E23 will be at least 7' 4" wide (current width of the E21) or possibly even 8' wide?? so tow mirrors will be a definite must. We've used a variety of tow mirrors and have found these to be our favorite so far: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The Touareg might be a good contender for you but before pulling the trigger, I also suggest watching this video. There are lots of other good videos out there about this but this guy does a good job of explaining GVWR and what John in Santa Cruz points out - Payload. Hope this helps! -Bea

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwFLOBrADBs&t=6s

[marktracie]

Texting and drinking might make you wreck your thumbs Dave. Be careful !!

[John in Santa Cruz]

my biggest concern about VWOA products like the Tourareg is the cost of any major repairs... towing puts a lot mroe stress on a vehicle than normal driving, and things like suspension bushings, driveshaft joints, transmissions are going to wear out faster and fail more often. with a tourareg I can't help but think any sort of transmission repair is going to be outrageously expensive.

[marktracie]

The exact reason to purchase a dually truck with a diesel. No worries after that.

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by Losangeles

We still own and drive the MDX.... we just dont tow with it anymore. Awesome vehicle.

What year of MDX?

I bought a 2016 MDX and equipped it with the stock tow package (with cooler) - very nicely done. I just haven't bought the Escape yet... While the 9-speed transmission introduced in 2016 had some issues in the first year it seems Acura has resolved them now. The first gears are very low so should be helpful. The third generation MDX (2014+) has a very powerful engine (290hp/267ft-lbs). That said I am thinking it may be marginal getting over the Cascades with a 19' or 21'. It is probably enough car for occasional towing but for an RV lifestyle not so much...

[Bluesky]

Originally Posted by Bea

Hi Bluesky, We have some friends that tow (their 4000# RV) with a VW Touareg Diesel and they love it - a nice TV and a normal everyday vehicle. You may already know but just a heads up on the emissions recall on them. The good news is that our friends did not notice any decline in towing ability after the emissions recall work was done on their VW Touareg Diesel.

The only minor draw back they said was how much narrower the Touareg is compared to their 7 ft wide RV. Moreover, I assume the new E23 will be at least 7' 4" wide (current width of the E21) or possibly even 8' wide?? so tow mirrors will be a definite must. We've used a variety of tow mirrors and have found these to be our favorite so far: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The Touareg might be a good contender for you but before pulling the trigger, I also suggest watching this video. There are lots of other good videos out there about this but this guy does a good job of explaining GVWR and what John in Santa Cruz points out - Payload. Hope this helps! -Bea

Thanks for all the information. I'll research it all.

[Losangeles]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

What year of MDX?

I bought a 2016 MDX and equipped it with the stock tow package (with cooler) - very nicely done. I just haven't bought the Escape yet... While the 9-speed transmission introduced in 2016 had some issues in the first year it seems Acura has resolved them now. The first gears are very low so should be helpful. The third generation MDX (2014+) has a very powerful engine (290hp/267ft-lbs). That said I am thinking it may be marginal getting over the Cascades with a 19' or 21'. It is probably enough car for occasional towing but for an RV lifestyle not so much...

2011 MDX

and take a hard look at * torque* not HP.

ours was not cool towing a 21' as stated in detail above.