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Old 02-13-2015, 06:18 PM   #121
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Reace, new design is MUCH better than losing the drawers, we love having them in our 21. Besides, at 3 inches higher those who set their televisions on top will have an easier viewing angle from the bed!
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Old 02-13-2015, 06:20 PM   #122
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We won't have a 21 either , but that is a nicely balanced look .....
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Old 02-13-2015, 06:20 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
Jim ,heat loss calculations assume that the structure is at the interior design temp and all the heat source is designed to do is supply enough BTUs to maintain the existing temp. When we left home last year it was 18 deg F below zero and when we arrived at our first campsite it was still 8 to 10 deg F below zero . Everything in the trailer was at 8 to 10 below .( Same problem on our trip home ) Our heater was sufficient to overcome the heat loss but had little left over to warm up the trailer's contents .When we went to bed several hours later you could still see your breath in the trailer.
I believe that the Escapes furnace is adequate for its' design temp .
I was seriously looking at asking Reece if the furnace could be upgraded to the 16,000 BTU model .We have a memory foam mattress in our trailer and its like sleeping on a rock when the mattress is cold.
Again I believe what your experience is with the present furnace but there is a big difference between "Below Freezing " and 18 below zero . For most of the forum members this is not an issue but I would rather have a furnace that is more than adequate than one that is barely adequate . AGAIN I AM NOT TRYING TO ARGUE WITH YOU
Steve, have you considered towing with the heat on and installing a supplemental electric heater? With temperatures that low, I'd like to have electric also as a back up in case of propane issues.
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Old 02-13-2015, 06:26 PM   #124
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Thank you so much Reace! I understand that to people coming from a smaller trailer or not needing to host grandchildren, the Escape's cupboard and drawer space is more than adequate, but coming from a Nash 19 foot (cabin measurement) with more space (but heavier and leak prone) we need every cubic inch and already gave up some of this space for the range. We are happy to get one of the two drawers back.

This option has our vote. As to the grill, my wife actually likes the black grill, but if others prefer a different colour we are fine with it.

Kudos to you for taking the time to give us an option to reclaim a drawer. The 3 extra inches in cupboard height won't be a problem for us, as we will use the counter top for placing things related to the bedroom area (iPhone, keys, etc.)

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Old 02-13-2015, 06:55 PM   #125
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I don't see a thing wrong with that plus furnace is now much more centered in the trailer. As for being in there in below zero weather, I will pass.
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Old 02-13-2015, 07:11 PM   #126
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One issue to deal with, with a higher output furnace would be more cycling. With a higher output, it would heat up quicker, so you would have more cycles, and more fan time with the air clearing stage.

For me, the noise that bothers me most, is when the contacts for the fan click on and off, once the fan is blowing steady I am not as bothered. (Still wish these things were WAY more quiet though)

My HVAC guy summed it up well for me, saying that the most efficient sized furnace is one with an output that would run constantly on the coldest day of the year, while still maintaining an adequate temperature. We are constantly changing out old home furnaces with ones that have much lower outputs, and are still heating the house fine.
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Old 02-13-2015, 09:49 PM   #127
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I am not in the market for a 21, so take this for what it's worth... The loss of a drawer, for me, would be a minor annoyance. But as I understand it, that cabinet is right in front of you when you walk in the door. And that furnace is definitely, to me, an eye sore. Were I shopping for a 21, it would affect my decision (though admitedly not by a huge amount; still, if I'm spending that much money, I will get picky).

If I decided to buy a trailer with said furnace, I'd be looking for a way to cover it up. Paint might help, but I too would be concerned about longevity. Maybe a metal grill? Brass and oak work well together, though I don't know the expense of a brass cover.
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Old 02-13-2015, 10:08 PM   #128
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Maybe a metal grill? Brass and oak work well together, though I don't know the expense of a brass cover.
Yep. See my post #98. They have many styles, like these for example. Sure look better than that plastic grill, although like you, I have no idea what they charge.
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Old 02-13-2015, 10:19 PM   #129
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I had missed that post... But those are cast -- gorgeous, but rather overkill for the purpose.
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Old 02-13-2015, 10:24 PM   #130
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I'm happier with the new configuration.
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Old 02-13-2015, 10:55 PM   #131
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Hello Everyone,

After two days of extensive research, trial and error, and several attempts at installing the furnace under the bench in it's standard location. We have resigned ourselves to accept the fact that the furnace simply will not fit under the dinette.

We have reworked the 3 - drawer cabinet located on the driver's side at the foot of the bed so that it will become a 2 - drawer cabinet. - Please see photo....

....As you can see from the photo. The cabinet will have two drawers, the new furnace, and a cabinet below the furnace. We have raised this cabinet 3" to accommodate the request for keeping two drawers.

We are still working on painting the grill for the furnace however, plastic paints tend to have a temperature limit and we are concerned about flaking when heated.

Thank you for your patience,

Reace and Tammy
Even though I am very happy with my 19 . I would be really happy with this new setup and getting back the second drawer if I was getting a 21 . You can only do what you can . But you show us with the care you take why we Love and want your trailers . Sincerely Pat and Linda
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Old 02-13-2015, 11:00 PM   #132
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And that furnace is definitely, to me, an eye sore.
Is it really an eyesore, compared to the previous furnace? I don't think so, but this is strictly a matter of opinion. Here are the other models with the old furnace, seen roughly from the doorway:
17B:


19:


5.0TA:

It is neatly placed into the cabinets, but I don't find the old one any more attractive, and Reace's trim ties the new one into the cabinetry.

The old furnace face is closer in colour to the Escape interior, which is why Reace mentioned that they are looking into colour options. In my opinion, the new furnace grill is fine, although a colour more like the wood might be better.

If anyone prefers louvers punched in sheet steel to the new plastic grill (I would) I'm sure that can be custom-built. Donna is familiar with the hot rod scene - any suggestions for a source?

If the form of the grill seems strange, I'll note that the hot air comes out of the middle, while the air return is the surrounding area. That middle circle can be rotated to the desired direction - it is a functional form.
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Old 02-14-2015, 12:46 AM   #133
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And that furnace is definitely, to me, an eye sore.
I guess that opinion is inversely proportional to the number of years you yearned for propane forced air heat in boats and small campers. To me a comfort providing item like the furnace would never be an eyesore.

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Old 02-14-2015, 05:09 AM   #134
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I was never too thrilled with the look of the old furnace, so I'm starting to warm up to the look of the new one. (pun not intended) My question is about the noise level of the fan. I thought the old furnace was way too noisy, it would wake me up at night, so we supplemented with an oil filled electric heater on cold nights. Does anyone know about the noise level of the new furnace?
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Old 02-14-2015, 08:43 AM   #135
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If the furnace grill isn't the look you like, I wonder if it could be changed out to a real wood one? Stained to more closely match the interior of the trailer. There are several manufacturers, this is one: Louvered wall vents, wall registers, wall vents, wood registers
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Old 02-14-2015, 10:09 AM   #136
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I agree... but the new furnace has exactly the same efficiency as the old one.

I'm not sure where the claims of "high efficiency" are coming from, since it is unchanged from the previous model and it is 76%; that's poor by even mid-efficiency standards for residential furnaces, and far from what is currently known as "high efficiency" (which is at least 90% and typically 95% efficient). It has not been legal to sell a less than high-efficiency furnace for a house in Canada since five years ago. I didn't really expect a high efficiency furnace, which would need to be a condensing design (exhaust below boiling temperature, so the water condenses), but at least 80% would have been nice.
I guess I am somewhat baffled as to why the company would make an entirely new unit that is no higher efficiency than the one that they are replacing?
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Old 02-14-2015, 11:47 AM   #137
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I don't think replacing the grill is going to be as easy as that. What the mock up doesn't show is the flex pipe attached to the centre circular grill to direct the hot air out...leaving the surrounding vent holes for intake air.

I painted a grill last night, however it says it need 5-7 days cure for proper performance on plastic. So although I think it looks much better painted light brown, the real test is to see how durable it is. The info on the paint suggests nothing hotter than 93 C. I had one running yesterday for about 3 hrs and the hottest I got the grill was 77C so the paint shouldn't fail due to heat.

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Old 02-14-2015, 12:00 PM   #138
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I guess I am somewhat baffled as to why the company would make an entirely new unit that is no higher efficiency than the one that they are replacing?
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Old 02-14-2015, 12:34 PM   #139
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Efficiency

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I guess I am somewhat baffled as to why the company would make an entirely new unit that is no higher efficiency than the one that they are replacing?
Standard residential furnaces have 80 to 82 % AFE ( Non Condensing) so 75 % is not that terrible. The furnace in your trailer takes in 100% outside air for combustion . The combustion air for a residential furnace is usually a mixture of outside fresh air and warm air from within the structures ( IE tempered air ) ,The temp of the combustion air effects efficiency . Plus residential furnaces do not have the design issues due to space limitations that RV furnaces must face. Nothing in any of the fiberglass trailers meet the energy code
( insulation ,fenstration ,infiltration , windows ,doors ) The heat loss through the trailer's metal framed windows is a bigger energy issue than the furnace
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Old 02-14-2015, 12:34 PM   #140
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I guess I am somewhat baffled as to why the company would make an entirely new unit that is no higher efficiency than the one that they are replacing?
As Bob suggested, the change may be due to manufacturing efficiency. The AF Series has the same layout as the larger and newer Excalibur furnaces, and matches the Excalibur 8500-IV Series in height. I would not be surprised if many components (blower wheel and housing, for instance) are the same parts as an 8516.

It may also be easier to service, at least in ducted versions with an external access door. For instance, the blower can be changed through the external access door without removing the furnace; I doubt that can be done with a 7912. The unducted (front discharge) models are probably minor aberrations in the product line.

The names of all of Atwood's Hydro Flame furnaces (other than the AF Series) end in a roman numeral: the 8012 is a "II", and the 8500 is a "IV". This change is an update, for any of the many reasons that manufacturers change their products.
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