A note about lug nuts for new members

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by mfschu

Can anyone explain why checking the lugnuts is so stressed for Escape trailers but doesn't seem an issue with other brand trailers? It seems that Escape uses the same axles as other trailer manufacturers. Thanks!

I agree and I'm a bit concerned that it unduly worries new owners. I agree that after installation they should be checked and maybe once again. But after that I don't give it a second thought.

Ron

[ghosthunter]

Last year on our annual hunting trip, one of my buddies bearing went out on his utility trailer.
He did not notice anything wrong in the dark until he saw sparks.

He ended up sending the trailer to the junk yard and rented a u haul for remainder of our three week trip.

Last year my wife and I towing the Escape just 1/2 mile from home had the truck tire of a pick up come off and pass 30 ft in front of us. I saw it coming and slowed to let it pass across our lane. It took out a local business sign.

I check my lug nuts and tires .

[John in Santa Cruz]

You want excitement, try dodging a tire gator thrown off a semi when you're on a motorcycle going around 75 or 80.

[mfschu]

Thanks Dave for the additional details! So it sounds like it's a problem for all trailers, not just Escapes, but Escape stresses this so their owners don't lose a wheel. Is this an issue more common on trailers for some reason as compared to cars and pickups? I've never been told to check my lug nuts on my car or truck. I have seen plenty of YouTube videos of lose wheels coming at cars on the highway and it is scary!

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

If you stop at the I80 rest stop westbound near Joliet Illinois, on about any day, in the amount of time it takes to eat a sandwich, drink a soda and walk the dog around, there will usually be two or three tow rigs pull in with Elkhart built trailers in tow. If you pay attention you’ll see inspection doors on refrigerators missing, loose trim, AC covers missing and steps down, all kinds of stuff. What I’ve never seen is the driver with a torque wrench walking around his load. I have seen them checking hub temps with a thermal gun.

So stuff is falling off the pieces of junk out of Elkhart before they even get to the dealers?! Unreal.

[Iowa Dave]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

You want excitement, try dodging a tire gator thrown off a semi when you're on a motorcycle going around 75 or 80.

I never dodged a gator when I had a motorcycle but I did pass a semi once and when I got alongside the tractor I sensed a thumping sound and about a second later the outer left front dual blew out just as I passed it. It was pretty loud. The driver immediately headed for the shoulder and I saw him pull to a stop in my mirror. This was up in South Dakota while they were building the interstate in 1969 near Presho SD. I’ve thought of it every time I cross SD over the past 50 plus years. Probably 25 or 30 times.
I had a friend who was career Highway patrolman. He hated pulling over, getting out, throwing those big alligators off into the shoulder where the DOT would pick them up. Kenny’s favorite duty was on Saturday mornings when there was a University of Iowa home football game. Cars world back up on Highway 6 for a half a mile or more. He and and his partner would meter the cars turning into the area leading to parking. Making the wait time fair for everyone. His patrol car was parked around the corner. His job was to make sure “Some Bozo” didn’t pass all the waiting cars on the gravel shoulder and cut around the corner instead of waiting their turn. When that happened he would step out and wave them down with his ticket book . A ticket, a lecture and every time at least once a day, open beer in the car which unfortunately for the fan, made them late for the kick-off.

Iowa Dave

[DanK]

Originally Posted by Ian G

The lug stud is splined & press fit into the hub, if the stud is not fully seated it will be pulled further into the hub which results in the lug nut needing to be re-torqued, this is common on a new axle (or vehicle hub with installed lug studs). Often the lug nuts will not loosen on the thread, the important message is to make a habit of checking the torque on both your trailer and tow vehicle wheels.

Absolutely correct

[Iowa Dave]

Originally Posted by DanK

Absolutely correct

In the case of the trailers, the studs are press fit through the electric brakes backing plate assembly. This steel is considerably thinner than the brake rotor the studs are pressed through on a car or truck. So there is less “bite” area and probably more likely flex on the backing plate. Unless those splines on the stud are pulled through all the way to the stud head on the backside of the backing plate, a tight “sandwich” of lug nut, backing plate and stud head will not be achieved. If the splined stud is not fully seated, this would allow the lug nut to loosen over time. Too much torque on the nut can deform the threads which are angled at an engineered angle with respect to “the job at hand”. That’s the danger of impact wrenches being used on various assemblies and pulling things too tight.
That’s my take on things, gained by reading, experience, fleet management, and yes, failure.

Hoarfrost on the trees today, pretty , but on smooth steps, not so much. Didn’t fall but would like to have had a video of that dance.
Iowa Dave

[Ian G]

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

In the case of the trailers, the studs are press fit through the electric brakes backing plate assembly. This steel is considerably thinner than the brake rotor the studs are pressed through on a car or truck. So there is less “bite” area and probably more likely flex on the backing plate. Unless those splines on the stud are pulled through all the way to the stud head on the backside of the backing plate, a tight “sandwich” of lug nut, backing plate and stud head will not be achieved. If the splined stud is not fully seated, this would allow the lug nut to loosen over time. Too much torque on the nut can deform the threads which are angled at an engineered angle with respect to “the job at hand”. That’s the danger of impact wrenches being used on various assemblies and pulling things too tight.
That’s my take on things, gained by reading, experience, fleet management, and yes, failure.

Dave

There are a set of studs or bolts that pass through the brake backing plate that connect the backing plate with the brake shoe assembly & magnets to the flange on the axle. The wheel studs are pressed through the brake drum, these are the ones that may not be fully seated on a new drum or hub. I agree fully that torquing any fastener associated with suspension and wheels is very important.

[WillyB]

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

In the case of the trailers, the studs are press fit through the electric brakes backing plate assembly. This steel is considerably thinner than the brake rotor the studs are pressed through on a car or truck. So there is less “bite” area and probably more likely flex on the backing plate. Unless those splines on the stud are pulled through all the way to the stud head on the backside of the backing plate, a tight “sandwich” of lug nut, backing plate and stud head will not be achieved. If the splined stud is not fully seated, this would allow the lug nut to loosen over time. Too much torque on the nut can deform the threads which are angled at an engineered angle with respect to “the job at hand”. That’s the danger of impact wrenches being used on various assemblies and pulling things too tight.
That’s my take on things, gained by reading, experience, fleet management, and yes, failure.

Hoarfrost on the trees today, pretty , but on smooth steps, not so much. Didn’t fall but would like to have had a video of that dance.
Iowa Dave

I'm heading to Davenport and Iowa City areas for work tomorrow for a few days. Can you be sure to keep that white stuff off the roads for me?

Thanks!

[Iowa Dave]

Originally Posted by Ian G

There are a set of studs or bolts that pass through the brake backing plate that connect the backing plate with the brake shoe assembly & magnets to the flange on the axle. The wheel studs are pressed through the brake drum, these are the ones that may not be fully seated on a new drum or hub. I agree fully that torquing any fastener associated with suspension and wheels is very important.

Yup you’re right. I kinda forgot
That the brake plate bolts through the other direction with nuts on the black
Side . Should have thought about that. I used a brake drum off of older car to make the torque your nuts rig and had to put studs through it but old age is catching up with me. We did have to thump them pretty hard to seat them.
Iowa Dave

[SageRpod]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

You want excitement, try dodging a tire gator thrown off a semi when you're on a motorcycle going around 75 or 80.

A spare tire fell from underneath a pickup truck when I was on my motorcycle on I40. A fully inflated tire and wheel take on a life of their own when that happens. Fortunately the spare took a hard right and ended up on the side of the Interstate. Also, just in case anyone is wondering, getting stuck behind a cattle truck in the rain in no fun on a motorcycle.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by mfschu

Thanks Dave for the additional details! So it sounds like it's a problem for all trailers, not just Escapes, but Escape stresses this so their owners don't lose a wheel. Is this an issue more common on trailers for some reason as compared to cars and pickups? I've never been told to check my lug nuts on my car or truck. I have seen plenty of YouTube videos of lose wheels coming at cars on the highway and it is scary!

car wheels should be rotated about every 5000 miles (every oil change), although admittedly many people skip this.

[Iowa Dave]

Here’s a smile
Some folks on here know the great couple of Corky and Darlene. They camped with a Scamp all over the country. We were camped with them at Defeated Creek one night after the Land Between the lakes rally. Corky related that he had made an insurance claim for a busted windshield after a Kansas trip one year. Seems a large cow pie came out of a cattle hauling trailer at highway speed and broke his windshield. Corky was matter of fact about it “Boy did that ever stink”‘he said.

[Ian G]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

car wheels should be rotated about every 5000 miles (every oil change), although admittedly many people skip this.

Yes so true, you might laugh but I actually install "winter storage tires" on my Escape (outdoor storage lot). Bought an extra set of cheap steel rims and installed the latest set of age out tires on them, the new tires are installed on the aluminum rims and stored inside my shed for the winter. In the spring when I install the "summer" tires I rotate them.

[Iowa Dave]

Growing up, my best friends father had a fishing boat. He would turn it over in the fall and change the wheels to old beaters and put his good tires and wheels in the house. In the spring he packed the bearings, flipped his boat over and put the good wheels on and went fishing. Did it for years. We had a garage for my boat and jacked it up and put it on wood blocks with the wheels off the ground. No flat spot in the spring.
Iowa Dave

[jeffhaltiner]

well, i've mentioned this on this forum but i'll stress it again: I was religiously checking my lug nut tightness our our E19 and tow vehicle (Kia Telluride). When i returned home from a 3000 mile fall trip in the SW, i realized that all 4 bolts holding my entire tow hitch to my car had come loose and fallen out! While the tow hitch had not fallen off (which would have been a disaster), it was totally loose with several inches of play, and had been banging around the back/underside of my car for several hundred miles! Terrifying in retrospect! So now in addition to the wheel lug nuts, i check for tightness on my tow hitch bolts! (I've never heard of this happening to anyone else, so maybe it's a one off?).

[Iowa Dave]

It never hurts to spend a little inspection time especially on items that are not visible from. Walk around inspection. The hitch, the stabilizers, the lug nuts, the sheet metal screws that hold covers, roof caulking , the spare tire mount both through the bumper and the tire to the mount. Only takes a few minutes, doesn’t cost a dime, peace of mind.
Iowa Dave

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by jeffhaltiner

well, i've mentioned this on this forum but i'll stress it again: I was religiously checking my lug nut tightness our our E19 and tow vehicle (Kia Telluride). When i returned home from a 3000 mile fall trip in the SW, i realized that all 4 bolts holding my entire tow hitch to my car had come loose and fallen out! While the tow hitch had not fallen off (which would have been a disaster), it was totally loose with several inches of play, and had been banging around the back/underside of my car for several hundred miles! Terrifying in retrospect! So now in addition to the wheel lug nuts, i check for tightness on my tow hitch bolts! (I've never heard of this happening to anyone else, so maybe it's a one off?).

Jeffrey: Was this a factory hitch or aftermarket installation? Either way I would contact whoever the installer was. There could have been an installation error and there are several easy solutions that could keep this from happening again. More aggressive torque specs, lock washers and Loctite are a few things that come to mind. When I did an aftermarket install recently the large bolts were torqued to something like 70 ft-lbs. You'll have me checking these now just to be sure all is tight.

[jeffhaltiner]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Jeffrey: Was this a factory hitch or aftermarket installation? Either way I would contact whoever the installer was. There could have been an installation error and there are several easy solutions that could keep this from happening again. More aggressive torque specs, lock washers and Loctite are a few things that come to mind. When I did an aftermarket install recently the large bolts were torqued to something like 70 ft-lbs. You'll have me checking these now just to be sure all is tight.

yep, it was a factory installed trailer hitch. I did make a big deal about this when taking it in for the replacement of those bolts. (i assume they are either supposed to use lock washers or "lock-tite" spray? and they did the repair for free with apologies. But it definitely scared the heck out of me. I will say I do love the Kia Telluride as a tow vehicle for our E19. Pulls it pretty well (hard up the big grades tho) but a great vehicle for our other uses (didn't want a pickup or full-size SUV since we're just occasional RVers. I think it was a good compromise, and offered some advantages over the similar Toyota Highlander, Honda Pilot, and VW Atlas.