Complete electric and solar dummy

[fudge_brownie]

I had one 12 volt line run with the possibility of having a CPAP in later life. Fortunately I, nor my wife have needed that. I do like having a lighted clock near my bed at night, mostly because I have such at home. I found a 12 volt "truckers clock" that fit the bill perfectly and used the extra line to power it and then suspended it under the cabinet. I could see individuals may want a 12 volt fan or similar low power appliance.

I might add that I am seldom connected to shore power, almost eight weeks a year boondocking so 12 volt is my only source of power, that and a need for substantial solar replenishment.

In some cases you may be able to splice into existing wiring, Captains Light over the bed for example. But I have always been a bit uncomfortable with doing that. This gives me a dedicated circuit.

[Greatboatz3]

Thanks for all of the info on Solar Power. My current build sheet lists the following electrical options:
Dual 6v lead acid batteries
Inverter 1500W , transfer Switch all outlets
190 W Solar panel with Charger
Zamp Port wired to Regulator (I think they mean Controller)
Electrical Management System w/ Surge Protector

I think I'm able to narrow my questions to a few
1. Does ETI wire the Zamp port to the controller in parallel to roof top or not or are the wires coiled?
2. If yes I assume it is wired in reverse polarity but that should be verified, am I correct?
This going to sound stupid, but using my VOM how does one check the polarity of Zamp port? Will I see a positive red wire connected to the negative side of the controller or will I by putting the positive and negative leads of my VOM to the positive and negative leads of the port respectively see a negative voltage? What needs to be turned on to get readings from the Zamp port?

3. I've learned from these discussions that when using a portable solar panel it is best that that voltages match. Renogy 100 watt w/o controller seems to be popular on the forum. Viewing one on the Home Depot website the Label quotes 18.0 optimum operating voltage. Optimum current 2x 2.78 (5.56) Amps. Under the heading of product description it is listed at 12volts. I assume the are referring to use in a 12v system.

4. What is the operating voltage of the roof top solar panel installed by ETI

Actually I'm afraid a few more:
5. Viewing the wiring diagram is it the Victron Solar Controller that charges the batteries when on shower power?
Thank you again.

[Centex]

Originally Posted by Greatboatz3

....
4. What is the operating voltage of the roof top solar panel installed by ETI
....

To that question, here's the spec sheet for the panel ETI is currently installing (always subject to change):

[Greatboatz3]

Centex thanks for the information. Is that available from the Escape website?

[Centex]

Originally Posted by Greatboatz3

Centex thanks for the information. Is that available from the Escape website?

I don't think ETI has any detailed info on their components posted on their website (yet?).

I've compiled a table based on fairly recent correspondence about the specifics with my ETI sales rep, that's found in the thread linked in my signature block, here's a direct link to the most recent update post: https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...tml#post365690

With the manufacturer / model number info on that table you can go to each manufacturer's website to get the detailed component specs of the sort I attached above.

As always, everything is subject to change, direct contact with specific inquiry to ETI is the only way to ensure you get info specific to your build

Hope that helps

[Greg A]

Never really thought about it till now, and when I checked the
Samlex 150p model # of the panel they put on in 2015 it is Polycrystalline.
I sure hope they are putting on Monocrystalline panels currently.
Fortunately, the panel dimensions match to upgrade my panel to a larger watt in Monocrystalline at some point in the near future.

[Centex]

Originally Posted by Greg A

I sure hope they are putting on Monocrystalline panels currently.

The GP-PV-190M that ETI told me they are using currently does happen to be monocrystalline (specs attached a few posts above).

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by Greatboatz3

Thanks for all of the info on Solar Power. My current build sheet lists the following electrical options:
Dual 6v lead acid batteries
Inverter 1500W , transfer Switch all outlets
190 W Solar panel with Charger
Zamp Port wired to Regulator (I think they mean Controller)
Electrical Management System w/ Surge Protector

I think I'm able to narrow my questions to a few
1. Does ETI wire the Zamp port to the controller in parallel to roof top or not or are the wires coiled?

If you have solar installed & the GoPower controller, the last options list I saw states that the external port will be connected to the input of the solar controller.
2. If yes I assume it is wired in reverse polarity but that should be verified, am I correct?
I would not make any assumptions & verify the polarity.
This going to sound stupid, but using my VOM how does one check the polarity of Zamp port? Will I see a positive red wire connected to the negative side of the controller or will I by putting the positive and negative leads of my VOM to the positive and negative leads of the port respectively see a negative voltage? What needs to be turned on to get readings from the Zamp port?
With a VOM set on DC voltage (if it has scales, at least 50V) check the polarity of the output of your portable solar panel. Be sure you are checking the actual panel output since you must bypass the panel's (if it has one) built in controller. Then check the polarity of the ZAMP connector. It doesn't matter which one is + or -, just that the voltage polarity of the pins of the connectors are the same. If they are not, either rewire or purchase an adapter.

If you decide not to bypass the portable panel solar controller, you must move the wires coming out of the ZAMP connector from the solar controller input and directly connect to the batteries. Again, 2 solar controllers in series won't work.

3. I've learned from these discussions that when using a portable solar panel it is best that that voltages match. Renogy 100 watt w/o controller seems to be popular on the forum. Viewing one on the Home Depot website the Label quotes 18.0 optimum operating voltage. Optimum current 2x 2.78 (5.56) Amps. Under the heading of product description it is listed at 12volts. I assume the are referring to use in a 12v system.

Generally, panels are described as 12V or 24V. That is a general description, not the actual panel voltage. When you check the actual panel specifications you will see a bunch of technical information. The specification that you should try to match is Vmp. The closer the two panels in parallel are to the same Vmp, the better. In actual use, a couple of volts difference is not going to be the end of the world.

4. What is the operating voltage of the roof top solar panel installed by ETI

Actually I'm afraid a few more:
5. Viewing the wiring diagram is it the Victron Solar Controller that charges the batteries when on shower power?

Shower? Assuming you mean shore power, the solar controller generally (and Escape's GoPower controller) is directly connected to the batteries. When also on shore power, both the converter & solar panels through the solar controller charge the batteries. Both have electronics that determine when the batteries are fully charged, and will limit charging current to prevent over charging the batteries.
Thank you again.

Hope this helps

[Lawrence A]

"5. Viewing the wiring diagram is it the Victron Solar Controller that charges the batteries when on shower power?

Shower? Assuming you mean shore power, the solar controller generally (and Escape's GoPower controller) is directly connected to the batteries. When also on shore power, both the converter & solar panels through the solar controller charge the batteries. Both have electronics that determine when the batteries are fully charged, and will limit charging current to prevent over charging the batteries."

Vermilye: So, would I be correct in taking from this that a portable solar panel connected to the trailer via the 7-pin tow vehicle connector would work alongside Escape's roof panel, provided shore power is not connected? (I read in an earlier post that the converter would switch between the TV alternator/charger and shore power depending which one is providing the greatest charge. Hence the need to have shore power disconnected when plugging in a portable panel. Redundant I know, given that if one had shore power one wouldn't need the portable - just want to be clear on all this.)

Thanks.

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by Lawrence A

"5. Viewing the wiring diagram is it the Victron Solar Controller that charges the batteries when on shower power?

Shower? Assuming you mean shore power, the solar controller generally (and Escape's GoPower controller) is directly connected to the batteries. When also on shore power, both the converter & solar panels through the solar controller charge the batteries. Both have electronics that determine when the batteries are fully charged, and will limit charging current to prevent over charging the batteries."

Vermilye: So, would I be correct in taking from this that a portable solar panel connected to the trailer via the 7-pin tow vehicle connector would work alongside Escape's roof panel, provided shore power is not connected? (I read in an earlier post that the converter would switch between the TV alternator/charger and shore power depending which one is providing the greatest charge. Hence the need to have shore power disconnected when plugging in a portable panel. Redundant I know, given that if one had shore power one wouldn't need the portable - just want to be clear on all this.)

Thanks.

Pin 4 of the 7 pin connector is connected to the battery on the battery side of the disconnect switch. It can be used to charge the batteries with the converter on or off, disconnect switch on or off.

There is no need to shut off the converter, disconnect switch, or unplug from shore power when connecting either the stock rooftop panels or a portable through the 7 pin connector. The batteries "sees" the highest voltage from what ever source provides it, and that source will provide most of the charging current, however all sources can be connected at the same time with no problems.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

Pin 4 of the 7 pin connector is connected to the battery on the battery side of the disconnect switch. It can be used to charge the batteries with the converter on or off, disconnect switch on or off.

Jon: Are you sure? I haven't seen or heard of a trailer that has a vehicle charge line from the 7 pin that is not on the converter/charger side of the disconnect switch. Turning the battery disconnect off would typically stop any charging from a tow vehicle (or instead a solar panel plugged into the 7 pin). I thought the only charging still available when the disconnect is flipped is from the factory solar controller that is connected directly to the battery.

[Greg A]

You’ve heard of one now Dave. When I rewired my 7 pin box the vehicle charge line was connected to the battery side of the disconnect.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Jon: Are you sure? I haven't seen or heard of a trailer that has a vehicle charge line from the 7 pin that is not on the converter/charger side of the disconnect switch.

Some owners have observed that when the battery is disconnected by the switch the brake breakaway switch is not powered. That results from running only one power wire from the battery area to the tongue area, connected to the 7-pin charge line, the breakaway switch, and typically the power jack. My guess is that this could have been done on any model with the battery and power centre in the back, which includes the 17', 21', and 5.0(TA)... but Greg apparently had this in a 19'.

[Lawrence A]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

Pin 4 of the 7 pin connector is connected to the battery on the battery side of the disconnect switch. It can be used to charge the batteries with the converter on or off, disconnect switch on or off.

There is no need to shut off the converter, disconnect switch, or unplug from shore power when connecting either the stock rooftop panels or a portable through the 7 pin connector. The batteries "sees" the highest voltage from what ever source provides it, and that source will provide most of the charging current, however all sources can be connected at the same time with no problems.

OK. So I'm still a little confused. My rooftop panel is 170W. Say I connect a 100W portable via the 7 pin connector. Assume for the sake of discussion, that amp and volt ratings between the panels are similar and that both panels are in direct sunlight. My goal is to get 270W of charge. But the way I read your reply is I would only get a charge slightly above whatever panel is considered the strongest charging current? Would I be better off adding a solar port directly wired to the Escape's solar controller? I'd like to avoid this if I can as drilling a hole in my trailer scares me.

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Jon: Are you sure? I haven't seen or heard of a trailer that has a vehicle charge line from the 7 pin that is not on the converter/charger side of the disconnect switch. Turning the battery disconnect off would typically stop any charging from a tow vehicle (or instead a solar panel plugged into the 7 pin). I thought the only charging still available when the disconnect is flipped is from the factory solar controller that is connected directly to the battery.

Check Tom's wiring diagram of a stock Escape. They have changed the wiring back & forth over time, so yours (and, of course, others) may be different, but my 2017 21C has the 7 pin charge line connected to the battery side of the disconnect.

If you could disconnect the charge line with the battery disconnect switch, it would be possible to also disconnect the break away switch from the trailer battery since Escape ties it to the charge line.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

The batteries "sees" the highest voltage from what ever source provides it, and that source will provide most of the charging current, however all sources can be connected at the same time with no problems.

If any source is providing any current, the voltage at the battery from that source will be the same as all of the others - if they're connected, they're at the same voltage, regardless of what voltage they may be trying to provide. I agree that they can all be connected without harming the sources, although the resulting charging profile may not be ideal for the battery.

Originally Posted by Lawrence A

My rooftop panel is 170W. Say I connect a 100W portable via the 7 pin connector. Assume for the sake of discussion, that amp and volt ratings between the panels are similar and that both panels are in direct sunlight. My goal is to get 270W of charge. But the way I read your reply is I would only get a charge slightly above whatever panel is considered the strongest charging current?

No, all of the sources will provide power, in a combination which is difficult to predict without a much more detailed analysis... but it works: just connect both panels (in parallel) and both will charge the battery. In the case of similar solar panels and an ordinary solar controller, the panels will provide power roughly in proportion to their size if they are in the same sun exposure conditions.

Because connecting via the 7-pin connector does not put the power through the trailer's solar charge controller, the portable panel will need its own charge controller... or manual monitoring of the battery voltage and manual disconnection of the panel to avoid over-charging the battery. Portable panels often have their own (crude, cheap) charge controller.

Originally Posted by Lawrence A

Would I be better off adding a solar port directly wired to the Escape's solar controller? I'd like to avoid this if I can as drilling a hole in my trailer scares me.

That is the straightforward and functional solution, but it is not necessary as long as every panel is connected through some charge controller.

If you use a maximum power point tracking (MPPT) controller then panels which are in different conditions like this (the rooftop and portable panels at different angles to the sun and with different shading) should have separate controllers... but the controller provided by Escape is not of the MPPT type (as far as I have seen - equipment changes).

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

Check Tom's wiring diagram of a stock Escape. They have changed the wiring back & forth over time, so yours (and, of course, others) may be different, but my 2017 21C has the 7 pin charge line connected to the battery side of the disconnect.

Got it! I'm done making any assumptions about Escape wiring. Clearly there is no consistency.

Originally Posted by Vermilye

If you could disconnect the charge line with the battery disconnect switch, it would be possible to also disconnect the break away switch from the trailer battery since Escape ties it to the charge line.

...and that is exactly how mine was wired. I left the wiring so that the disconnect switch still isolates the battery from the 7 pin charge line but split off the breakaway switch wiring and wired it to the battery side of the disconnect switch.

[Lawrence A]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Because connecting via the 7-pin connector does not put the power through the trailer's solar charge controller, the portable panel will need its own charge controller... or manual monitoring of the battery voltage and manual disconnection of the panel to avoid over-charging the battery. Portable panels often have their own (crude, cheap) charge controller

Thanks for weighing in, Brian B-P. I would have assumed that charging via the 7-pin connector would be routed via the trailer's converter, which would function as a charge controller. But you're saying that the portable panel would still need its own controller. Adding to my confusion is that the advice I got from a portable panel manufacturer's agent was that there can only be one solar controller so a portable panel with a built-in controller (which is what they sold) would not work. Think I'm about to give up and learn to live within my 170 watt panel's constraints.

[NEWYORKHILLBILLY]

A easy way to do this would be to remove the controller from the portable panel. add a zamp solar port to the exciting controller. both panels would go threw the onboard controller .
https://www.specialized.net/zamp-sol...YaAnkGEALw_wcB

[Vermilye]

I prefer connecting a portable panel without (or by bypassing the panel's) controller to the input of the on board controller. As Brian noted, the on board controller is generally a better quality device than what most manufacturers put on portable panels. While individual controllers will work, with my 17B that had 2 100 watt panels on the roof, I have had a few occasions where adding a 160 watt portable portable (with controller) actually dropped the charge rate. Rare, but it has happened more than once.

With my 21C, I added a port to the input of the Victron 100/30 solar controller. I modified the portable panel so I could use or bypass the panel mounted controller. The only time I use the panel's controller is when I lend the panel or use it on something other than the trailer.

By the way, I switched from SAE (ZAMP) connectors to Anderson connectors. After a couple of years of heavy use, I found the SAE connectors becoming unreliable. Easy to spot if you have the remote current reading the bluetoothed Victron 100/30 provides, (ie you can wiggle the connection until it shows on the phone) but hard to notice if you don't have an in line amp meter.