Lithium Batteries?? VS dual 6 volts

[Ronn]

Originally Posted by alanmalk

For the $$$ challenged, such as myself, the above is the real question regarding whether or not invest in lithium batteries.

My camping-day average, based on 5 years of ownership, is about 100 camping-days per year. My expected camping lifetime is another 5 years. That's a measly 500 cycles use of a battery that could do as many as 6000 on a good day (good decade).

I may change my tune the next time I have to lift those 70 pound AGM's out of the trailer for replacement.

More likely I will purchase a single Battleborn for my electric trolling motor. That battery has to be carried from the car to the water for each fishing trip. Plus the voltage drop with each withdrawn amp-hour affects motor performance - much more than say LEDs in the trailer. So having a higher voltage for the full 100 AH on my boat is more cost effective and the weight penalty is more problematic - all adds up to my depleting the credit card for boat use rather than camping. I anticipate getting more than 3X the mileage on the water from a lithium, which if lucky might equate to 1% more fish caught?

But I reserve the right to spend $$$ on expensive camping trinkets if the urge hits me.

But I reserve the right to spend $$$ on expensive camping trinkets if the urge hits me. Very well put Alan

[Mike Lewis]

Last fall I bought two Battleborn lithium batteries and a Victron solar controller for my Escape 21. I got two because I wanted to have enough current to run my microwave. In February and March I took a seven-week trip out to the West Coast and back. The batteries performed very well; I am quite pleased with them.

My only issue was an incorrect absorption phase setting on my solar controller that sometimes kept the batteries from fully charging. I resolved this with assistance from Jon V. and the Battleborn website.

I managed to draw the batteries down to 25% or so while camping in Redwood National / State Park. So without sunlight you can run out of power just as with lead-acid batteries, it doesn't matter. They recharged without any problem.

The only drawback I can find with the lithium batteries is their eye-watering cost. I really disliked maintaining lead-acid batteries and I use my trailer a lot, so for me they are worth it.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

For those concerned about capacity, I've been told that Battleborn batteries provide a full 100 amp hours before shutting down. The battery is actually rated at 110 amp hours, but must shut down before reaching 0V, which, I believe, would kill the battery permanently.

So their advertised capacity is usable capacity... good to know.

The actual cell voltage for damage is way above zero, and the automatic cutoff is even higher. Actually reversed cells (driven to zero and beyond) are destroyed. Fortunately, the BMS included in all of these drop-in replacement units means that won't happen in any normal use scenario.

[NEWYORKHILLBILLY]

Lots of good info here. I learned a lot. In my case I think i going to stick to the wet cells that come with the trailer. That will give me 112 amp hours and still stay in the 50% draw. actually I like everything about the lithium (except price) I figured a would not be happy with just one Because I might want to add a inverter down the road. I could have talked myself in to one But not two. I love Jon's setup and if i was spending as much time camping as him I would have his set up.
In my case i will be lucky to spend 40 nights a year in there. maybe 10-15 of those nights will be below freezing. This is the time I need the ah hours between furnace and cpap machine running. so at 10-15 deep cycles a year even if i run below the 50%. I belive with some sun i can stay above the 50% goal even on those cold nights.one problem on the 19' with the batteries outside in cold weather they lose a lot of there capacity. this is a problem for the lithium batteries. I would have to move them inside. Bottom line i can get more ah hours out of the duel 6 volts for less money. If I need to i can draw some extra out as mentioned it will shorten the life of the battery But if is cold out and i need the furnace at least i have that choice. I hope by adding 2 solar panels I can get full charges in the day in the fall. I guess i really need to sit down and figure my amp hours out.

[Ronn]

Originally Posted by NEWYORKHILLBILLY

Lots of good info here. I learned a lot. In my case I think i going to stick to the wet cells that come with the trailer. That will give me 112 amp hours and still stay in the 50% draw. actually I like everything about the lithium (except price) I figured a would not be happy with just one Because I might want to add a inverter down the road. I could have talked myself in to one But not two. I love Jon's setup and if i was spending as much time camping as him I would have his set up.
In my case i will be lucky to spend 40 nights a year in there. maybe 10-15 of those nights will be below freezing. This is the time I need the ah hours between furnace and cpap machine running. so at 10-15 deep cycles a year even if i run below the 50%. I belive with some sun i can stay above the 50% goal even on those cold nights.one problem on the 19' with the batteries outside in cold weather they lose a lot of there capacity. this is a problem for the lithium batteries. I would have to move them inside. Bottom line i can get more ah hours out of the duel 6 volts for less money. If I need to i can draw some extra out as mentioned it will shorten the life of the battery But if is cold out and i need the furnace at least i have that choice. I hope by adding 2 solar panels I can get full charges in the day in the fall. I guess i really need to sit down and figure my amp hours out.

I wouldn't say that we are heavy users, but we are probably heavier than most casual users. We have only been down to near 50% once and that was in Minnesota, in February, with cloud cover for the last two days of traveling north. That was around 12 noon after the furnace all night and a computer with an extra monitor for about 4 hours. Unless you plan on boon docking with heavy cover for several days I would think you will be fine, we have been.

[NEWYORKHILLBILLY]

Originally Posted by Ronn

I wouldn't say that we are heavy users, but we are probably heavier than most casual users. We have only been down to near 50% once and that was in Minnesota, in February, with cloud cover for the last two days of traveling north. That was around 12 noon after the furnace all night and a computer with an extra monitor for about 4 hours. Unless you plan on boon docking with heavy cover for several days I would think you will be fine, we have been.

ronn do you have one or two panels on roof?

[Ronn]

Originally Posted by NEWYORKHILLBILLY

ronn do you have one or two panels on roof?

We have just the one, it is completely stock. We also have the inverter and wired throughout. We have used an instant pot many times, but not the microwave, we have a convection microwave / oven, it takes more power than the one ETI installs. ETI said it would be too hard on the batteries, I haven't looked into it enough to see if we want to or not. Probably the only time we would use it would be on the road for lunch and maybe coffee / tea in the mornings.

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by Ronn

I wouldn't say that we are heavy users, but we are probably heavier than most casual users. We have only been down to near 50% once and that was in Minnesota, in February, with cloud cover for the last two days of traveling north. That was around 12 noon after the furnace all night and a computer with an extra monitor for about 4 hours. Unless you plan on boon docking with heavy cover for several days I would think you will be fine, we have been.

Just imagine, it's the end of January, you're in Death Valley National Park for a week, not a cloud in the sky the whole time there, and your 5.0 with a single ETI installed roof panel is parked perfectly north/south, with the dinette on the north end. You now have no solar. Why?

Enjoy,

Perry

[cpaharley2008]

Because it is night time?..........

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by NEWYORKHILLBILLY

one problem on the 19' with the batteries outside in cold weather they lose a lot of there capacity. this is a problem for the lithium batteries. I would have to move them inside.

Not difficult. I did it when I put my mini-split condenser on the tongue. Passenger side dinette seat. Very early 19's (2009) had the batteries in this location. The advantage of lithium (or AGM) is you won't have to deal with the off-gassing propane alarm nuisance. Even my vented box hasn't been perfect in this regard because we currently have Interstate flooded lead acid 6V's. https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...tml#post153890

Would love 400 AH of lithium to run my mini-split for a few hours at night. Two on each side under dinette seats...same overall weight. The $4,000+ price tag is holding me back though! Plus the solar to bring the batteries back up the next day. The cool thing is it is now technically possible to have whisper quiet A/C run off batteries that would have been unheard of a few years ago. The price hurdle is large though!!

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by NEWYORKHILLBILLY

actually the new 21 NE also has batteries out side so it three outside and 2 inside.

Just got a response back from ETI. Unless there are balance problems the batteries will be inside, like on the 21 and 5.0. They know lithium batteries have problems in cold weather and the more expensive a camper people buy the better chances they'll buy lithium. Considering we mainly camp in the spring and fall, many times in freezing weather we'd need the batteries inside. If they make a 23 with our preferred floorplan, we'd switch, unless they are foolish enough to put the batteries on the outside.

Enjoy,

Perry

[NEWYORKHILLBILLY]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

Just got a response back from ETI. Unless there are balance problems the batteries will be inside, like on the 21 and 5.0. They know lithium batteries have problems in cold weather and the more expensive a camper people buy the better chances they'll buy lithium. Considering we mainly camp in the spring and fall, many times in freezing weather we'd need the batteries inside. If they make a 23 with our preferred floorplan, we'd switch, unless they are foolish enough to put the batteries on the outside.

Enjoy,

Perry

no sure who told you that. But the 21 NE's they been selling out of inventory have the batteries in the front storage box.I also confirmed this when i was debating weather to change my build from a 19 to a 21 NE

[NEWYORKHILLBILLY]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Not difficult. I did it when I put my mini-split condenser on the tongue. Passenger side dinette seat. Very early 19's (2009) had the batteries in this location. The advantage of lithium (or AGM) is you won't have to deal with the off-gassing propane alarm nuisance. Even my vented box hasn't been perfect in this regard because we currently have Interstate flooded lead acid 6V's. https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...tml#post153890

Would love 400 AH of lithium to run my mini-split for a few hours at night. Two on each side under dinette seats...same overall weight. The $4,000+ price tag is holding me back though! Plus the solar to bring the batteries back up the next day. The cool thing is it is now technically possible to have whisper quiet A/C run off batteries that would have been unheard of a few years ago. The price hurdle is large though!!

You got my wheels turning. How many AH would it take to rune the mini split for 2 hours? this would be a great boondocking rig

[emers382]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

Just imagine, it's the end of January, you're in Death Valley National Park for a week, not a cloud in the sky the whole time there, and your 5.0 with a single ETI installed roof panel is parked perfectly north/south, with the dinette on the north end. You now have no solar. Why?

Enjoy,

Perry

Since the solar panel is sloped towards the back of the trailer and the trailer is positioned 180 degrees from where it should be. The sun is low in the sky in January. The panel is not getting any sun.

Our open backed storage shed is placed so that the back faces west. Despite the tree partly blocking (no leaves of course) all winter I never plugged in. The batteries stayed fully charged despite the frigid temperatures we have here.

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by emers382

Since the solar panel is sloped towards the back of the trailer and the trailer is positioned 180 degrees from where it should be. The sun is low in the sky in January. The panel is not getting any sun.

Close, but no cigar.

Ok, maybe a cigarette for a partial answer.

Enjoy,

Perry

[Ronn]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

Just imagine, it's the end of January, you're in Death Valley National Park for a week, not a cloud in the sky the whole time there, and your 5.0 with a single ETI installed roof panel is parked perfectly north/south, with the dinette on the north end. You now have no solar. Why?

Enjoy,

Perry

I would imagine you were using more than you replenished.

If so this could even apply if it were in August under clear skies - can only go so long using more that you replenish.

I guess the opposite applies to my bathroom scale, less input than output my scale goes down, but unlike a battery I haven't employed a regulator so any excess input creates an overcharge.

[NEWYORKHILLBILLY]

Originally Posted by Ronn

I would imagine you were using more than you replenished.

If so this could even apply if it were in August under clear skies - can only go so long using more that you replenish.

I guess the opposite applies to my bathroom scale, less input than output my scale goes down, but unlike a battery I haven't employed a regulator so any excess input creates an overcharge.

Thats my problem on the scale I am in a over charged state , might say I am cooking the batteries . some days I take a lot out but always seem to put to much back in.

[Vermilye]

It was because you were in Death Valley. The sunlight reverses when it goes below sea level & sucks out of the batteries.

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

It was because you were in Death Valley. The sunlight reverses when it goes below sea level & sucks out of the batteries.

For that answer you've earned an exploding cigar!

Enjoy,

Perry

[Meandering Minstrel]

The batteries for our Escape 21NE are in the storage box on the front hitch; if we hadn't opted for the storage box I guess they'd be sitting right on the hitch frame but they're definitely not within the heated area.