Off Grid Package....

[MicheleNCali]

Can you please let me know if the "full package" of $4140 investment is the best option for our 5.0? My husband definitely wants 2 solar panels along with 2 lithium-ion batteries. Thank you in advance.
Which options did you choose??
Off-Grid Power
FULL PACKAGE - Two Lithium Batteries, Inverter, Two Solar Panels, Solar Port +$ 4,140.00
Dual 6V Lead-Acid Batteries (include 2 batteries) +$ 220.00
Lithium-Ion Batteries - 100Ah (Choose your quantities required below)
Single Battery +$ 1,150.00
Two Batteries +$ 1,950.00
Inverter 1500W (Includes transfer switch and all outlets) Note: Option requires battery selection +$ 890.00
190W Solar Panel with Charge Controller +$ 710.00
Additional 190W Solar Panel (cannot combine with TV Antenna) +$ 480.00
Solar Port wired to Regulator Note: Only if Solar Panel selected +$ 110.00
Prewire for Solar with Roofmount MC4 Connector (not required if solar pan

[1200bruce]

We are in line to get the full off grid package.

[kathytony1985]

We are opting for the full package as well. We want it ready to go dry camping, rather than having to retrofit a system.

[drjp]

Yep, full solar package except we are switching out the ETI provided lithiums (2) with Battleborns. Although I’m in the States, I bought them from a really nice Canadian company, Solacity.com. They’re apparently the sole Canadian Battleborn dealer, saved some on shipping and customs. They’re Golf cart batteries.

BBN-188-103
Battle Born BBGC2 Lithium, 12V deep-cycle Lithium-ion battery, 100 Ah, 3000+ cycles, group GC2

Let me pay with my US credit card, too.
Jonathan

[MicheleNCali]

Thank you for your replies!!!

[Wunfiddy]

Is this package new??

[Centex]

Originally Posted by Wunfiddy

Is this package new??

Providing a single-checkoff on the website "build and price" page to get the 'full list of solar options' for each trailer is new, but the content of the 'package' (described on that webpage) is nothing new, nor is there any price advantage in selecting the 'package' vs checking each of the items it contains.

It's just a revision of how the options that are available for 2021 are presented on each trailer's online "build and price" webpage.

Example:
https://escapetrailer.com/the-escape...uote-detailed/

[Scambo1]

My son and I built an off grid camper van and in the process I learned a lot about the whole topic. Basically, what you are trying to do is replace a noisy generator. Solar can only do that partially. If it isn’t generator noise but generator run time that bugs you, then a propane carb conversion for a generator is the least expensive solution.

Back to solar...your a/c and microwave both eat the electricity...fridge too if it’s not a 3 way.

Your battery bank is going to be what determines how long you can run these high draw items. You solar panels and charge controller only determine how quickly you are able to recharge your batteries.

In my humble opinion, $4000 seems extremely expensive for the very limited capability that escape is putting into the solar system you guys are talking about. Battery choice will determine battery expense but it will not necessarily change how many amp hours or how long the batteries will run and amp hours are all you really care about. All batteries have their pluses and minuses. The charge controller will limit the amperage from solar panels to the batteries.

Let’s talk price: A good 40 amp charge controller like EPever should cost a little less than $200. Solar panels can be bought for less than 50cents a watt up to $1/watt. So, assuming a 350 watt solar array, $350. Batteries will vary depending on what type of batteries they are. Lithium, flooded, AGM, etc. So, two 6volt deep cycle golf cart batteries are about $400. A pure sine wave 3000watt inverter of good quality will be around $3-500. Wires, lugs, etc are about $150. So you can put together a system as capable (or actually more capable) as Escapes for about $1500. That make labor for installation $2500. And the escape system might run your microwave for 1/2 -1 hour. That seems pretty expensive to me.

[cpaharley2008]

What I have done is eliminating the need for 120v while using the trailer. My meal planning as well as using propane all considers this approach.

[Dave Walter]

We bought our 19' new in 2013 with a single 90W solar panel and dual 6V batteries. Since then, probably 90-95% of our camping has been without electrical services and we have not once had an issue with our batteries having insufficient charge. Now of course everyone's needs are different and what has worked for us may not work for you. But it is a fallacy that you need to have multiple solar panels and lithium batteries to camp "off the grid"!

Edit:
And by the way, our original dual 6V batteries are still going strong!

[Centex]

Originally Posted by MicheleNCali

Can you please let me know if the "full package" of $4140 investment is the best option for our 5.0?

Only you can know if the capabilities of the Full Package are of benefit for the camping lifestyle (off-grid power demands) you seek to enjoy. The key elements being 200Ah rated LiFePO4 storage, 360W rated solar harvest capacity, 1500W rated inverter capacity with auto-transfer switching for multiple outlets, and 20A charging capacity via the tow vehicle. If you don't need (want) all of those capabilities, then there may be better value in selective choices from ETI's 'A la Carte Menu' (e.g. if you don't want to enjoy off-grid power for 120VAC devices, the inverter and associated items are of no value for you). To Dave Walter's point, only you can know if your power demands and off-grid durations require all of the components in the Full Package.

To the subject of price, IMO unless you are into the substantial time and effort of a totally DIY system build from a 'base' 5.0, the Full Package represents a good value for what it provides in a turnkey package (it's ready to go when you pick up your trailer). Context for that opinion:

• Scouring the internet for competitive 'street' prices, the cost to replicate the Full Package with same-brand and model major components is ~$3950 (that's replacing the power-center charger section with the comparable WFCO LiFePO4 compatible upgrade unit).
• That does not include all of the required cabling upgrades/changes for comparability
• That does not include the many bits and pieces of miscellaneous hardware required
• That does not include any labor allowance for the upgrade work

Clearly, ETI is leveraging their component buying power to offset labor and installation cost of the particular components offered. IMO the components offered are of decent quality and from manufacturers likely to be around for awhile; they are reasonably well 'matched' to work well together; the package is a reasonably good physical fit for the roof area and interior compartments available.

Can the identical capability be DIY'ed cheaper with different brand products? Probably yes, in every sense of the word if you're not careful, but only if your time and effort is worth nothing. When making that comparison, be sure to pay attention to performance comparability (e.g. '200Ah rated' of AGM does not provide the same useable Ah of '200Ah rated' LiFePO4; true performance comparability likely involves substantial weight and space penalty); don't underestimate the cost of all the 'miscellaneous bits' required to actually complete a functional installation, those 'bits' are many and the costs add-up.

Am I going to go with a DIY solution? Yes, but I know I'll be paying more than the 'Full Package' price from ETI and I know that the effort of the work is a source of personal satisfaction for me as a lifelong 'workshop hobbyist'. For me the 'return on investment' is a system with capabilities, features, and installation details more aligned with my personal preferences. But that's not for everyone and one shouldn't assume there's value in that without putting a sharp pencil to the calculation (offhand / broad-brushed estimates can be seriously misleading IME).

IMO ETI's turnkey solution represents a good value for many if not most folks buying a trailer commensurate with Escape's price-point.

One person's lengthy but considered opinion having investigated this subject fairly thoroughly with a sharp pencil, just for your consideration.

[Scambo1]

Centex
I think you have a very well thought out post. And, believe there would be significant value to the semi do it yourself-er in having escape do a “solar ready” setup. I.e: drill the holes, run the wires, etc. my basic prism for RV ing is that I do all my own repairs and upgrades.

Another thing you touched on that I glazed over is that lithium batteries can be run down pretty close to zero then recharged. Where all the other options will be damaged by being run below 50% of rated capacity before being recharged. So, lithium is (kinda sorta) double the rated capacity of the other types of batteries.

I am a dry camper for the most part and IMO, a propane converted generator should be given significant investigation/consideration before just throwing in with solar.

Solar has its place but it also has limits.

[oldwave]

Propane and gasoline generators are also a significant source of greenhouse gas and a dangerous source of co if used carelessly. I have heard of campgrounds with multiple generators running causing mild to moderate co poisoning of campers. Plus the cost of fuel over the course of a few years the ro investment begins to return. I see solar cost dropping even more as production ramps up. If you want to see real costs price out Oliver Trailers solar packages. Escapes are a solid value for the money. We just have the single 170 watt panel and flooded batteries. When the batteries wear out I’ll look to see how much lithium’s have dropped, but for sure will at least go with agms. I’ll add an inverter next fall, it’s not much money and we would use it some.
By the way we did look at an Oliver, they are very well made.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Scambo1

Another thing you touched on that I glazed over is that lithium batteries can be run down pretty close to zero then recharged. Where all the other options will be damaged by being run below 50% of rated capacity before being recharged. So, lithium is (kinda sorta) double the rated capacity of the other types of batteries.

That's not really true. While cycle life of lead-acid batteries is commonly quoted for discharge to 50%, there is no magic number at which damage occurs. Good deep-cycle lead-acid batteries can be discharged to 20% charged (80% depth of discharge) every time and still last thousands of cycles. Lithium-ion batteries are at least as likely to be damaged by complete discharge, but they are always used with a battery management system (BMS) to prevent that; in fact, the need for a BMS with lithium-ion and not with lead-acid confirms that lithium-ion is more sensitive to damage and needs protection.

Well-managed lithium-ion batteries are not allowed charge and discharge to 100% and 0% of their physical capability. The charge and discharge limits are normally set more conservatively, and that more limited extent is shown as 100% and 0% in the BMS display. For examples, find any production battery-electric vehicle for which nominal (or "gross", or "total") and usable (or "net") capacities are listed: the capacity between the more conservative management settings is the "usable" capacity. For instance, the 93.4 kWh (nominal) battery in the Porsche Taycan has 83.7 kWh usable; the 79.2 kWh of the other available battery has only 71.0 kWh usable.

The 100 Ah rating of the BattleBorn batteries is apparently the usable capacity. Their actual capacity is greater, and it looks like they can be fully discharged only because the BMS shuts then off before they are truly fully discharged.

[richm]

Alan has some good points about the advantages of ETIs turnkey system.

There are also some advantages to ETIs choice of a single vendor for multiple components. It makes tech support of the overall system easier. It may make designing the system easier if the vendor can lend more engineering assistance across multiple components.

[J&B Mitt]

Originally Posted by oldwave

Propane and gasoline generators are also a significant source of greenhouse gas...

I suspect a generator's contribution pales in comparison to the greenhouse gas emitted from pulling our trailers.

[MyronL]

Here is a most recent materials list of my DIY solar panel expenses.

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by MyronL

Here is a most recent materials list of my DIY solar panel expenses.

This makes me want to add up the materials for our three 100 watt panels. The three panels were $106 each, and I was figuring about another $300 for materials. I already had the Victron 100/30 controller/remote, so my materials cost is probably similar to yours.

Now if we include our hours invested we'd probably add at least $1-2,000.

Enjoy,

Perry

[Craiger]

When my build sheet comes IN, I will go for the full off grid option. I am old and I am gray and I am retired. I spent 40 years as a tooling engineer, I could get with my buddy from Caltech and we could have months of fun researching each component making sure everyone of the adapter kits would work and finally putting the whole package together. The problem is I live in seal Beach he lives in Sacramento he has the two mothers to to contend with. I have enough money that I can buy the trailer cash if I so desire. my time is more valuable enjoying camping with my trailer Boone docking going to KOA or everywhere I want to go. So you have my answer to the question.

[drhoda]

Originally Posted by Dave Walter

We bought our 19' new in 2013 with a single 90W solar panel and dual 6V batteries. Since then, probably 90-95% of our camping has been without electrical services and we have not once had an issue with our batteries having insufficient charge. Now of course everyone's needs are different and what has worked for us may not work for you. But it is a fallacy that you need to have multiple solar panels and lithium batteries to camp "off the grid"!

Edit:
And by the way, our original dual 6V batteries are still going strong!

When I bought my 2015 5.0 it had two 12 v Interstate lead acid batteries. I am about to replace them as they are bad.

Were the original 6v batteries lead acid or agm? Brand name?

Also how can you monitor if your batteries are 50% discharged so you don’t overly discharge them and prolong their life?