17b vs 19 escape opinions pros & cons

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

"Can I back up with the Equal-i-zer hitch?
Yes, the Equal-i-zer hitch is designed to allow you to back up and take tight turns with the hitch hooked up. Just be sure the frame brackets are installed in the correct range on the trailer frame (27"-32" from the center of your coupler) so the arms have plenty of room (2"-3" after the bracket) to move during tight turns."

Glad that you clarified that before I had to.

Yes, I've backed into some twisty tight spots, including my parking spot at home, and never disconnected my WDH first.

Ron

[Mucram]

Thanks for the great info on the equalizer wdh especially towing w 4 runner. I imagine this would obviate the need for rear airbags on the 4runner? Like some of you, I upgraded to a new 17b from an 89 scamp 16. It was like night & day. Not disparaging scamps but that baby was old with lots of issues.

[John in Santa Cruz]

I airbagged my Tacoma TRD Off Road that I was using to pull our Casita, because when I had a heavy load in the Tacoma, it sagged a lot in he back, and with the airbags pumped up it rode much better. trailer tongue weight was secondary to this. However, when I pumped up the air bags to the right amount for the load of cargo + trailer tongue, the porpoising that it was doing with the Casita virtually went away, so I never used the WDH again.

I've not used a WDH at all with my current Escape 21 + F250 longbed diesel, it rides rock steady, no sway, no porpoise. My F250 came with overload leaf springs, the only time I've seen them contact is when my son put a ton of oak firewood in the back of the truck to haul up to his place in Reno, it was squeaking pretty good (and needed some heavy sticky grease put on the overload leaf contact zones).

[Island Escapes]

We really struggled with our decision and i even second guessed it afterward.
In the end we made the right decision for our family. Here are a few factors that makes the 19 the right fit for us, as opposed to the 17A we were also considering:

- i’m six feet tall and i would feel claustrophobic in anything smaller, i would always be touching up against a surface and it would eventually drive me nuts, especially sharing the space with 2 other humans. If i was solo, i would probably be fine in a 17A. But as a family there is no way we would be comfortable spending time in anything smaller. We live in rain country, so we have had to spend several days at a time inside our trailer. My size and comfort level, our family, make this factor alone worth going for the 19

- we have 2 women in the family who need privacy and space for hygiene, self care, and dignity. A 17A, or even the smaller washroom of the 17B, would have reduced their comfort tremendously. In our opinion, the 19 offers the minimum required for civilized comfort while keeping things as simple as possible

- we ended up living in our trailer for 6 weeks during covid and traveling 6500kms during that time. The extra space and convenience made the experience pleasant. Point is, you may need to be in your trailer for longer periods than long weekend get aways. Many people are forced to evacuate due to weather conditions, or shelter in place in emergencies. The few extra bucks for the 19 will be well worth it and will return to you at re-sale.

Having said all that, if i were single and shorter i would have gone with the lighter, cheaper, smaller 17A.

[suncoastdancers]

Every choice is a compromise. I’d look to what kind of camping you typically do:

1) Do you prefer remote, off-road wilderness camping? (choose smaller)

2) Do you travel alone or with a single companion? (choose smaller)

3) Do you travel with a large pet? (choose larger)

4) Do you tow with an SUV or small truck (choose smaller)

5) Are you over 6’2”? (choose larger)

6) Need to maneuver into tight places? (choose smaller)

I find that the single axel 17 tows like a charm. Then, I tow with a full size truck with a payload capacity of 1800 lbs. (less 300 lbs on the hitch). If I was towing with a Tacoma, the payload limit would be 700 lbs less. In my experience, instability increases the closer you run to your payload capacity on the towing vehicle. That applies to any size trailer.

[Doug2000]

We had a 1977 Trillium 4500 15’, a 2007 Escape 17B and now a 2020 Escape 19 among other trailers.

Our older 17B was light and towed amazing. Usually forgot it was there behind the 4Runner. I could spin that thing in the Starbucks parking lot drinking s latte. Not the 19. I can’t achieve a good ride quality with the 19 behind our Tundra. I’m going to try Firestone airbags. The 19 is known to have a light tongue weight. Too much stuff behind the axle.

Our 19 has 3x the storage of our 17B. We never had enough cupboards. Keep in mind the AC was above the fridge and not on the roof.

Our 19 has a permanent bed with a decent mattress.. Sleeping on cushions is for the birds.

We got as good as 16 MPG towing the 17B with the 4Runner. We get 11 MPG towing the 19 with the Tundra. I doubt the 4Runner would tow the 19 well.

Upgrading to the 19 didn’t go well. We sold the 17B for $15k and expected to find a used 19. Never happened. You know what a new 19 costs, add tax and delivery to Ontario. Ouch.

If I had a choice, I would go back to the 17B, it was lighter and towed well, it fit in 2 parking spaces at the mall not 8 spaces across.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Doug2000

Upgrading to the 19 didn’t go well. We sold the 17B for $15k and expected to find a used 19. Never happened. You know what a new 19 costs, add tax and delivery to Ontario. Ouch.

If I had a choice, I would go back to the 17B, it was lighter and towed well, it fit in 2 parking spaces at the mall not 8 spaces across.

As we say, timing is everything. We upgraded from our 19, after switching from ordering a 17 , to a 21 when they were almost giving them away. The cost to upgrade was negligible.

Actually I've always, if possible, use two parking spaces in malls etc. With the Scamp, dead easy, the 19, no problem. The 21 requires a little more care in positioning. I thought that when I added my 2' wide rear box that would be the end of my 2 space parking. But no, just a little more care in positioning and no problem blocking traffic.

Ron

[Mucram]

Thanks for all your insights on 17 vs 19. Have made the plunge & have a deposit down on a 2018 19’.

I have a couple of additional?? Being a somewhat seasoned escape owner I am putting together a checklist for assessing the new trailer (have viewed some pics & build sheet). Have never had air or backup camera. Do you have advice on what to look for ? I will assess for leaks & check all systems out.

Also, what are the differences in a single vs double axle trailer, pros & cons.

I will be towing home w|o wdh on my 4 runner. A 10 hr trip.

Thank you

[John in Santa Cruz]

I pulled a Escape 21 home from Dallas Texas to Santa Cruz California via Reno, NV with my Tacoma 4x4, that was like 30 hours of driving. We took 3 days and enjoyed it. The Escape was near empty, just had some basic bedding in it, and the Tacoma was pretty empty too, and did just fine towing, only real complaint was the gas mileage trying to keep up with Texas/New Mexico freeway speeds, I got 9.6 MPG average on 3 tanks in a row, with an 18 gallon tank, that meant we were looking for gas at 120 miles, and had to find it by 150 miles or we'd be on fumes.

The Tacoma *did* have better shocks than stock, and air bags in back. It was a 6 speed manual.

[GPS]

Hey all. Towing is one of those tradeoffs that people consider when getting a trailer, of the many. Some buy the trailer to fit their rig, others by a rig to fit their trailer. Our town n country gets about 18 in Oregon for our 17a, which is nice. But i am thinking about putting my 95 jeep into service for the more demanding climbs. Trailer choice comes down to so many factors for which there are pros and cons for each. Just entering into consideration of an escape is a big choice by itself! G

[Doug2000]

Originally Posted by Mucram

Thanks for all your insights on 17 vs 19. Have made the plunge & have a deposit down on a 2018 19’.

I have a couple of additional?? Being a somewhat seasoned escape owner I am putting together a checklist for assessing the new trailer (have viewed some pics & build sheet). Have never had air or backup camera. Do you have advice on what to look for ? I will assess for leaks & check all systems out.

Also, what are the differences in a single vs double axle trailer, pros & cons.

I will be towing home w|o wdh on my 4 runner. A 10 hr trip.

Thank you

Your definitely going to need a WDH with a second Gen 19. My 2017 4Runner sagged towing the first Gen 17B which was way lighter.

Your also going to need a ScanGauge2 to watch transmission temperatures. My dealer told me at 220f to watch, at 230f pullover and let it cool. I pulled over many times going through Colorado and Utah. Expect to tow in third and forth gear. Whenever the torque converter unlocks, it gets hot fast.

[yeungfeng]

During my researching for an escape I needed to take into consideration the tow rig. In this case a Tacoma 4X4 TRD V6 w/ tow package. The combination allows for greater towing weight and the E19 is a comfortable size for extended travel, so that's what we've done.

However, I would like to point out that the Tacoma Manual says that when towing a travel trailer a WDH is required. I can't imagine it would be different with a 4 Runner.

With a Anderson WDH I hardly notice the trailer.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by yeungfeng

During my researching for an escape I needed to take into consideration the tow rig. In this case a Tacoma 4X4 TRD V6 w/ tow package. The combination allows for greater towing weight and the E19 is a comfortable size for extended travel, so that's what we've done.

However, I would like to point out that the Tacoma Manual says that when towing a travel trailer a WDH is required. I can't imagine it would be different with a 4 Runner.

With a Anderson WDH I hardly notice the trailer.

I had a Tacoma TRD Off Road 4x4 w/ the 4.0 v6 and 6 speed manual, it was a great little truck. It hugely benefitted from the riderite airbag kit when loaded in back, whether or not you were towing. It also benefitted from upgraded shocks... It turned out the 'bilstein offroad' shocks that Toyota used were much smaller and softer/weaker than the ones you buy aftermarket. I put a set of BF Goodrich All Terrain KO2's on it in the stock size, they were awesome in all sorts of weather on road, *and* very good offroad tires in anything other than thick mud or deep sand. Its weak spots were lack of payload (mine was rated for 1200 total lbs, and it was the Access Cab, the same year Crew Cab only had 1000 lb payload, that includes the driver and all passengers), and when towing I often wished it had a bigger gas tank, 18 gallons just didn't get it very far.

I mostly used it for pulling a Casita, but it quite nicely towed our Escape 21 the whole way home from Dallas, Texas to Santa Cruz, California, by way of Reno, Nevada.

[yeungfeng]

I had a Tacoma TRD Off Road 4x4 w/ the 4.0 v6 and 6 speed manual, it was a great little truck. It hugely benefitted from the riderite airbag kit when loaded in back, whether or not you were towing. It also benefitted from upgraded shocks... It turned out the 'bilstein offroad' shocks that Toyota used were much smaller and softer/weaker than the ones you buy aftermarket. I put a set of BF Goodrich All Terrain KO2's on it in the stock size, they were awesome in all sorts of weather on road, *and* very good offroad tires in anything other than thick mud or deep sand. Its weak spots were lack of payload (mine was rated for 1200 total lbs, and it was the Access Cab, the same year Crew Cab only had 1000 lb payload, that includes the driver and all passengers), and when towing I often wished it had a bigger gas tank, 18 gallons just didn't get it very far.

I mostly used it for pulling a Casita, but it quite nicely towed our Escape 21 the whole way home from Dallas, Texas to Santa Cruz, California, by way of Reno, Nevada.

Hi John! I appreciate being able to benefit from your experience. I had thought about airbags, but I haven't even driven the truck all that much. Maybe 1k a year. Something about having to work. Actually she who must be obeyed purchased the truck, my input was about requirements for towing an Escape. 36k miles for a very nice price, new tires, who was I to argue.

BTW lived in SC 88-92 30 years ago.

[Mucram]

Thanks for taking the time to give your insights. Drove 1500 miles to pu the new 19. It towed beautifully on the ride home, as good as the 17. MPG dropped to 12-13 w empty tanks. Usual w the 17 was 12-15 depending on terrain. Lot camped at the flying j in cokeville Wy. FYI, they let you camp in the parking lot on the other side away from the trucker parking. Quiet & a little grass. Nice 1st nite in a huge trailer.

One last question for those w a 19. I travel w full water tank. Should I put more weight in front of trailer by dinette?. It has batteries & propane on tongue. Alas, no storage box.

[Ron in BC]

We travelled far and wide with our 19 and never gave any thought or felt the need to alter the front weight depending on what water load we had. Never ever had any hint of sway or problems. No sway control, only a WDH.

Ron

[John in Santa Cruz]

not directly applicable to a 19, but our 21, traveling with two E-bikes on the back bumper on a 1Up rack, the hitch was surprisingly light, like under 400 lbs, so I have made a point of moving as much heavy stuff as I can to the front of the 21, under the bed, and its been much better. I keep working on my wife, she's not happy unless every possible storage space is packed with junk just in case she needs it, there's cabinets we didn't even open on this last week long trip, I'd far rather be minimalist, and just bring what I know we need.

[yeungfeng]

hanks for all your insights on 17 vs 19. Have made the plunge & have a deposit down on a 2018 19’.

I have a couple of additional?? Being a somewhat seasoned escape owner I am putting together a checklist for assessing the new trailer (have viewed some pics & build sheet). Have never had air or backup camera. Do you have advice on what to look for ? I will assess for leaks & check all systems out.

Also, what are the differences in a single vs double axle trailer, pros & cons.

I will be towing home w|o wdh on my 4 runner. A 10 hr trip.

Thank you

Not sure how I missed your backup camera question. I have one from Tadibrothers.com I mounted a iPhone Wifi Backup Camera system under the back window cabinet and can see out the back of the trailer (after removing the screen) on the iPhone mounted on the dash. With all the bells and whistles they offer, I can backup with greater ease. Plus when going down the road you can see what's behind you, like the guy following too close.

[Red]

The second gen 19 tends to be nose heavy so I run with a half to full tank of fresh water. My tongue weight is around 600 lbs. The wdh was setup at the factory and adjusted based on a half tank of water. The truck and trailer stay level at any water level.

[brroberts]

That’s a lot of tongue weight for a 19. I thought I was the heaviest at 560lbs. Although, max 15% of 5000 gets to 750lbs. I’m pretty much 4620lbs loaded to go, and I don’t try to watch the trailer weight at all.