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08-13-2022, 09:17 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Trailer: 2022 Escape 21C
Posts: 255
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Lithium for cheapskates
I haven't seen too many people who've posted about using "DIY" lithium batteries in their Escape trailers, so I thought I'd start a discussion thread in case anyone was interested.
My goal with the DIY batteries was to install a “largish” battery bank without breaking the bank (so to speak). I wanted to be able to run large electrical loads like air conditioning on overnight boondocks, without a generator. Given size, weight, and cost considerations, I ended up building two 460AH, 12V batteries. The total cost was around $2150:
16x 230AH EVE LifePO4 cells: $1850
2x JK-B2A8S20P BMS: $200
2x 12v-24V boost converters: $10
Cables / lugs / etc: $40
Boards and screws for the battery boxes: $50
I installed the batteries, a Victron Multiplus 3000VA inverter / charger, and a Victron smart shunt. The MultiPlus isn’t cheap, but the killer feature for me was “PowerAssist”. With PowerAssist, the MultiPlus automatically adjusts the charger and inverter loads to keep within a set shore power limit (e.g. 15A). The dynamic adjustment allows use of a much smaller shore power source than would otherwise be needed to handle the peak load of the system.
The basic system is up and running, but I’m still doing some cleanup.
Here are a few pics:
* raw cells on workbench
* cells installed in box w/ BMS
* batteries and inverter installed under bench seat
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08-13-2022, 09:28 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 8,728
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Nice job, you should have power to burn.
A friend did virtually the same thing for his sailboat last Spring and he's very happy with the result.
Will Prowse would be proud of you.
Ron
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08-13-2022, 10:00 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Salem, Oregon
Trailer: 2022 Escape 21C; 2018 Escape 19 (sold in 2022)
Posts: 402
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Nice work. Do you have the links for the components your purchased? I need about 40 percent of what you have, and your build it yourself approach looks like a great way to go. Thanks for posting.
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08-14-2022, 01:25 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: San Jose, California
Trailer: 2022 5.0 TA
Posts: 669
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That’s over 11kwh of energy storage! Can you run your AC on it? I’m curious why you went with so much capacity.
That multi plus sounds awesome.
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08-14-2022, 07:45 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Trailer: 2022 Escape 21C
Posts: 255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splitting_lanes
That’s over 11kwh of energy storage! Can you run your AC on it? I’m curious why you went with so much capacity.
That multi plus sounds awesome.
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The main reason was being able to run the AC in areas with no hookups and no generators allowed. For example, last weekend, we boondocked at a "harvest hosts" winery where that was the case, but it was nice to still have the AC. (Virginia is stinking hot and humid in the summer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DT6
Nice work. Do you have the links for the components your purchased? I need about 40 percent of what you have, and your build it yourself approach looks like a great way to go. Thanks for posting.
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Sure, here are the links the products / suppliers that I used:
EVE 230AH cells:
https://www.docanpower.com/index.php...product_id=434
JiKong BMS:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256804034358347.html
(Note: this is a newer revision of the one that I have - this version supports heating and 12V batteries without a step-up converter - I had to use a 12v->24v converter with mine)
12v to 24v step up converter (not needed w/ new BMS board):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B082XQC2DS
Battery terminals (these are the ones that I bought, but they are junk - probably better to try different ones):
https://www.amazon.com/Ampper-Batter.../dp/B08SMG6JST
200A MRBF fuse block w/ fuse (cheap, but runs hot - might switch for a Class-T fuses)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B14WLFQL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron in BC
Nice job, you should have power to burn.
A friend did virtually the same thing for his sailboat last Spring and he's very happy with the result.
Will Prowse would be proud of you.
Ron
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Thanks! Although probably not as proud as if I'd bought his sponsored, er, I mean recommended products.
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08-14-2022, 08:28 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Trailer: 2022 Escape 21C
Posts: 255
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BTW, the main thing I would do differently if I was doing it again would be to use pre-built battery boxes instead of building them. I was having a hard time finding the right-size boxes, so I just gave up and built my own. In hindsight, it would have probably been worth the extra effort to find a supplier for the boxes.
It's not that building a wooden box is difficult, but getting the dimensions right, laying out and mounting the components, painting, and screwing things together all took more time than I thought.
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08-14-2022, 11:24 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 8,728
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So the cells were US stock and not a bad price.
My friend ordered straight from China and it took so long that there was a bit of a question mark whether he'd ever receive them.
He made a box also. One thing that he was a bit worried about was the potential bulging of the cells and how strong the box should be. That's proven to be a non-issue.
Right now I have a surplus of underused lithium but if I need mega power in the future I'll go the same route.
Ron
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08-14-2022, 12:12 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: East of Austin, Texas
Trailer: 2021 Escape 5.0 / 2022 F150 SuperCab
Posts: 2,849
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron in BC
.... He made a box also. One thing that he was a bit worried about was the potential bulging of the cells and how strong the box should be. That's proven to be a non-issue. ....
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Is there any reason for concern about using wood for a DIY box? Not so much from a combustion / fire standpoint per se, but from a heat-dissipation standpoint with relatively high Ah packs?
We hope that there's manageable heat generated during use-cycles, and the BMS should provide ultimate protection in that regard, but I wonder if the metal box used for my 400Ah BestGo battery pack allows a bit beneficial of heat-dissipation?
I do note that some 'pre-built' battery packs use 'plastic / composite' enclosures, probably between wood and metal in this regard, so maybe heat-dissipation through the enclosing box is of no consequence?
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08-14-2022, 12:36 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 8,728
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There have been quite a lot of online videos that use wood containment boxes. I've never seen comments that the insulating qualities of wood was causing a problem. But there could be a marginal negative effect that would only show up long term.
Quite frankly that much amperage in a metal box sort of scares me. One slip of the wrench and big time arcs and sparks.
Ron
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08-14-2022, 12:44 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: East of Austin, Texas
Trailer: 2021 Escape 5.0 / 2022 F150 SuperCab
Posts: 2,849
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron in BC
... Quite frankly that much amperage in a metal box sort of scares me. One slip of the wrench and big time arcs and sparks.
Ron
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Fair enough point, I'll admit I've not tested mine to see if it's isolated from ground!
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08-14-2022, 01:48 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Trailer: 2022 Escape 21C
Posts: 255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Centex
Is there any reason for concern about using wood for a DIY box? Not so much from a combustion / fire standpoint per se, but from a heat-dissipation standpoint with relatively high Ah packs?
We hope that there's manageable heat generated during use-cycles, and the BMS should provide ultimate protection in that regard, but I wonder if the metal box used for my 400Ah BestGo battery pack allows a bit beneficial of heat-dissipation?
I do note that some 'pre-built' battery packs use 'plastic / composite' enclosures, probably between wood and metal in this regard, so maybe heat-dissipation through the enclosing box is of no consequence?
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Things do get warm, but not alarmingly so. The BMS comes with three temperature sensors - an internal one, and another two that you can place anywhere you want. I placed one of those roughly in the "center of mass" between the middle two cells, and the other on one of the bus bars.
At "normal" loads (~1500W), the temperature sensor on the BMS board shows temperatures in the 40C-45C range. The cell temperature slowly creeps up to around 35C, and the bus bar temperature is between the two.
At higher loads (~ 3500W), the BMS gets up to around 65C-70C, and the other temperatures stay about the same.
The shutdown temperature of the BMS is 90C, so there's still some wiggle room even at the higher loads.
The biggest problem I have right now is with the MRBF fuses. They get _very_ hot at the high loads. I'm not sure if that's because they're imported junk, or if that's normal for MRBF. Either way, I'm going to need to replace them.
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08-14-2022, 11:52 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Burlington Twp., New Jersey
Trailer: 2010 Escape 19
Posts: 7,111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hugh
The main reason was being able to run the AC in areas with no hookups and no generators allowed. For example, last weekend, we boondocked at a "harvest hosts" winery where that was the case, but it was nice to still have the AC. (Virginia is stinking hot and humid in the summer)
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Nice work on the project. My mini-split and lithium setup allows me to do the same. It’s wonderful to have A/C off battery. Bear in mind though that a stock rooftop A/C is quite loud outside and you’ll probably need to use some discretion so as to not bother neighbors. The whole point of no generators is to reduce noise. A/C off battery is a new paradigm.
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08-15-2022, 03:03 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Trailer: 2022 Escape 21C
Posts: 255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubicon327
Nice work on the project. My mini-split and lithium setup allows me to do the same. It’s wonderful to have A/C off battery. Bear in mind though that a stock rooftop A/C is quite loud outside and you’ll probably need to use some discretion so as to not bother neighbors. The whole point of no generators is to reduce noise. A/C off battery is a new paradigm.
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Yep, that's definitely true. As a former tent camper I'm definitely "noise aware". Luckily, we were the only people staying last weekend, probably because it's so miserable without AC.
FWIW, the Coleman Mach 10 isn't too bad in terms of noise, but would definitely be annoying to nearby tent campers or others with open windows
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08-15-2022, 10:54 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: San Jose, California
Trailer: 2022 5.0 TA
Posts: 669
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I’m curious how you ordered your escape, and I’m sure some future escape owner will want to know the answers also.
Did you plan for the multi plus, and thus ordered a very minimal escape, or no load center at all?
Being able to run AC (or electric heat) on battery is very nice, when humidity high.
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08-15-2022, 02:29 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Trailer: 2014 Escape 15B sold, 2019 Escape 19
Posts: 367
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Very nice, powerful system. The MultiPlus is great but it does generate a lot of heat. If you didn't do it already adding some force ventilation will help with the system's health.
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08-15-2022, 04:20 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 8,728
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Last time that I was at Q'site there was a guy showing off his huge RV with an equally huge lithium battery array. I believe that his water cooled. I don't know how large you can go before that becomes an issue.
Ron
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08-15-2022, 05:24 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Trailer: 2022 Escape 21C
Posts: 255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splitting_lanes
I’m curious how you ordered your escape, and I’m sure some future escape owner will want to know the answers also.
Did you plan for the multi plus, and thus ordered a very minimal escape, or no load center at all?
Being able to run AC (or electric heat) on battery is very nice, when humidity high.
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Yes, I planned to install the Multiplus and lithium batteries right after delivery, so the only electrical upgrade I ordered was the two roof solar panels that Escape provides. I asked them not to install the solar charge controller, as I was planning on replacing it with a Victron MPPT controller.
The Multiplus is installed (electrically) between the shore power feed and the Escape installed WFCO panel. I added a new 30A breaker on the shore power feed, to provide physical over current protection for the Multiplus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Effie
Very nice, powerful system. The MultiPlus is great but it does generate a lot of heat. If you didn't do it already adding some force ventilation will help with the system's health.
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Yes it does! 3000W of AC load seems to require about 3500W of DC input, so that extra 500W has to go somewhere.
I think I'm going to try and ventilate via the original battery vent openings in the back of the trailer. Not as much ΔT in the summer, but also prevents dumping the waste heat back to the interior where it doesn't really help anything.
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08-16-2022, 10:25 AM
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#18
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida
Trailer: Escape 17B
Posts: 34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hugh
I haven't seen too many people who've posted about using "DIY" lithium batteries in their Escape trailers, so I thought I'd start a discussion thread in case anyone was interested.
My goal with the DIY batteries was to install a “largish” battery bank without breaking the bank (so to speak). I wanted to be able to run large electrical loads like air conditioning on overnight boondocks, without a generator. Given size, weight, and cost considerations, I ended up building two 460AH, 12V batteries. The total cost was around $2150:
16x 230AH EVE LifePO4 cells: $1850
2x JK-B2A8S20P BMS: $200
2x 12v-24V boost converters: $10
Cables / lugs / etc: $40
Boards and screws for the battery boxes: $50
I installed the batteries, a Victron Multiplus 3000VA inverter / charger, and a Victron smart shunt. The MultiPlus isn’t cheap, but the killer feature for me was “PowerAssist”. With PowerAssist, the MultiPlus automatically adjusts the charger and inverter loads to keep within a set shore power limit (e.g. 15A). The dynamic adjustment allows use of a much smaller shore power source than would otherwise be needed to handle the peak load of the system.
The basic system is up and running, but I’m still doing some cleanup.
Here are a few pics:
* raw cells on workbench
* cells installed in box w/ BMS
* batteries and inverter installed under bench seat
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Nice work. What is your source for the raw cells?
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08-16-2022, 01:37 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 8,728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian, Tommie and Dad
Nice work. What is your source for the raw cells?
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See post #5.
Ron
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09-14-2022, 08:16 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Trailer: 2022 Escape 21C
Posts: 255
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Adding more stuff to the system
I've made a few more changes since my original post:
- replaced the GoPower PWM solar controller with a Victron MPPT controller
- removed the battery vent grills from the outside of the trailer, replaced with two 3-inch diameter "bilge vents", and added a bilge blower / vent hose into the battery / inverter compartment.
- installed a touchscreen display / control for the entire system
I'll provide some more details on the first two in another post, but for the display, I continued with the cheapskate approach: Instead of installing a Victron CerboGX and Victron display ($600), I bought a Raspberry Pi touchscreen ($40), installed Venus OS on a spare Raspberry Pi I had lying around, and then designed and 3d printed a display bezel and enclosure for the Pi. With the addition of a couple of USB to VE.direct cables ($60), I've got a nicely functioning control system for all the Victron components.
To keep all the controls in one place, I decided to remount the existing KiB panel higher on the cabinet, and install the display below the panel.
That required enlarging the existing hole behind the KiB panel , which meant that the bottom edge of the original hole was visible below the KiB panel. However, the new display covered that up nicely, and I think the end result came out pretty well. (pics below)
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