generator and EMS codes E2 and PE2

[CharlesPou]

I'm slow when it comes to electricity, so explain how using a plug that's not grounded to anything, just plugged into the generator to fool the onboard EMS, is going to protect me from getting electrocuted?

if the EMS worked a little better for me, I would probably want to use the work around so I could have the EMS on. however, I have to turn off the EMS too many times when using shore power to consider it useful. when I had my Casita, I camped for approx 10 years before I started using a surge protector, and never had an issue.

IMO the optional EMS installed by Escape is too sensitive, and not useful. hopefully, at least I have surge protection. cheers

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

Bypass: Enclosed blue jumper wire allows the user to bypass the computer circuit in the EMS in the event of computer failure, thus allowing AC power into the RV.

I’m confused about the mention of a blue jumper wire. Shouldn’t the description say this which comes from the HW30C manual online: “ByPass: This switch is located on the remote display and allows the user to bypass the EMS in the event of failure, thus allowing AC power into the RV.”

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

I’m confused about the mention of a blue jumper wire. Shouldn’t the description say this which comes from the HW30C manual online: “ByPass: This switch is located on the remote display and allows the user to bypass the EMS in the event of failure, thus allowing AC power into the RV.”

If the computer has failed I'm guessing the switch on the remote display wouldn't work. So it would seem you could still open the unit and physically bypass the computer circuit in the EMS.

I would suggest you contact Progressive Industries to confirm this hypothesis.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by CharlesPou

I'm slow when it comes to electricity, so explain how using a plug that's not grounded to anything, just plugged into the generator to fool the onboard EMS, is going to protect me from getting electrocuted?

if the EMS worked a little better for me, I would probably want to use the work around so I could have the EMS on. however, I have to turn off the EMS too many times when using shore power to consider it useful. when I had my Casita, I camped for approx 10 years before I started using a surge protector, and never had an issue.

IMO the optional EMS installed by Escape is too sensitive, and not useful. hopefully, at least I have surge protection. cheers

The EMS ground detection circuit is needed only when used with utility power. Since utility power has a current path through ground, the trailer must be grounded to prevent an unsafe condition.

For a generator (which has no ground path unless a ground rod is added), the ground detection circuit in the EMS serves no purpose. The bonding plug on the generator is there to fool the EMS that a ground is present. If a generator has a ground rod, then it becomes the same as a utility AC supply.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by CharlesPou

I'm slow when it comes to electricity, so explain how using a plug that's not grounded to anything, just plugged into the generator to fool the onboard EMS, is going to protect me from getting electrocuted?

if the EMS worked a little better for me, I would probably want to use the work around so I could have the EMS on. however, I have to turn off the EMS too many times when using shore power to consider it useful. when I had my Casita, I camped for approx 10 years before I started using a surge protector, and never had an issue.

IMO the optional EMS installed by Escape is too sensitive, and not useful. hopefully, at least I have surge protection. cheers

Your generator has a floating neutral which is not grounded
By connecting the generator neutral to the equipment ground ( generator frame) you are only fooling the EMS , not grounding the system
If you want to have a grounded system similar to utility power then bond the neutral to the equipment ground and drive a ground rod

[tdf-texas]

Steve, you type faster than I do and said it clearer than I did as well.

[CharlesPou]

I'm not at my trailer, so not sure how to describe it, but many times when the EMS is blocking power to the trailer there is no error message. however, one of the readings shows zero. if all is good, it will usually show a small number such as 6. when I see zero for that test, I know from experience to turn the EMS off. could someone describe the readings the EMS cycles through? cheers

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

If the computer has failed I'm guessing the switch on the remote display wouldn't work. So it would seem you could still open the unit and physically bypass the computer circuit in the EMS.

I would suggest you contact Progressive Industries to confirm this hypothesis.

I know how to physically bypass the EMS with wiring if needed but I’m sure Progressive Industries doesn’t want the average customer messing around inside the unit. Maybe I should have asked where you got that particular line about a blue jumper wire...your manual, the internet, etc.?

[CharlesPou]

so, if I understand correctly, I don't need the extra plug plugged into my generator to be safe? cheers

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by CharlesPou

I'm not at my trailer, so not sure how to describe it, but many times when the EMS is blocking power to the trailer there is no error message. however, one of the readings shows zero. if all is good, it will usually show a small number such as 6. when I see zero for that test, I know from experience to turn the EMS off. could someone describe the readings the EMS cycles through? cheers

The EMS will always delay the power to the trailer when you first plug in. After the initial delay the power will come on and only shut off if there is some sort of problem. Are you being impatient when you first plug in?

[CharlesPou]

TTMartin, maybe that's it? I'll have to be more patient, and give it more time, that would be very cool if my EMS was really OK! cheers

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by CharlesPou

so, if I understand correctly, I don't need the extra plug plugged into my generator to be safe? cheers

You need the extra $12 plug to protect things wired or plugged in inside your trailer. Without the extra plug, you can't use the generator without bypassing the EMS. When you bypass the EMS you reduce it to being a simple surge protector.

As I mentioned in another post, when a generator runs out of fuel it's RPMs and voltage output will surge (low and / or high). That is an especially hazardous situation for things like your air conditioner and any other electronics in your trailer (TV, Microwave, Instapot, Air Fryer, etc)

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Your generator has a floating neutral which is not grounded
By connecting the generator neutral to the equipment ground ( generator frame) you are only fooling the EMS , not grounding the system
If you want to have a grounded system similar to utility power then bond the neutral to the equipment ground and drive a ground rod

Steve: The Honda EU2000i and 2200i have a floating neutral and also a ground terminal. Are you saying to use the neutral bonding plug in an unused receptacle on the generator AND a ground rod connected to the ground terminal for true protection?

[cpaharley2008]

The other scenario is when you check before plugging in and everything appears acceptable, during peak hours low voltage or other issues can arise, so it needs to constantly monitor the incoming electricity, not just when you plug in.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

Steve, you type faster than I do and said it clearer than I did as well.

When I was a young journeyman, I worked at an oil refinery that had a 120V / 240 VAC system with a floating neutral
( Neutral not intentionally grounded)
Reading from the line to a grounded surface showed zero voltage which led many to believe the circuit was dead . I tried to explain that the neutral was only the center tap of the transformer and was not referenced to ground thus the zero reading
I finally gave up trying and wasting my time

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

I tried to explain that the neutral was only the center tap of the transformer and was not referenced to ground thus the zero reading
I finally gave up trying and wasting my time

This explains that pretty well, IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMmUoZh3Hq4

[Hawkeye Ed]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

What the EMS does

Time Delay for A/C Compressor:

If the AC power is interrupted, or the EMS detects a fault condition, the built-in time delay is activated. There are two settings on the EMS: one is a 136-seconds (02:16) time delay and the other is 15 seconds. Consult your air conditioner manual to see if it has a time delay built in. If so, use the 15 second delay, if not; use the 136-second delay. The factory setting is 15 seconds.[/I][/B]

As long as we're discussing the features of the Progressive Industries EMS installed in Escape trailers as an option,

I read the manuals for our 5.0 air conditioner and thermostat. There's a built-in time delay that protects the AC from damage. I installed my own Progressive EMS and left the time delay set at the factory setting: 15 seconds since the AC-protection time delay is already taken care of. That way whenever I hook up to shore power or my generator, I don't have to wait over 2 minutes to hear the big click when the EMS finally connects. Fifteen seconds I can deal with.

For those of you who had the EMS installed by Escape, I can't say whether they changed the factory setting. You might want to double-check so you know whenever you hook up how long you'll need to wait.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye Ed

As long as we're discussing the features of the Progressive Industries EMS installed in Escape trailers as an option,

I read the manuals for our 5.0 air conditioner and thermostat. There's a built-in time delay that protects the AC from damage. I installed my own Progressive EMS and left the time delay set at the factory setting: 15 seconds since the AC-protection time delay is already taken care of. That way whenever I hook up to shore power or my generator, I don't have to wait over 2 minutes to hear the big click when the EMS finally connects. Fifteen seconds I can deal with.

For those of you who had the EMS installed by Escape, I can't say whether they changed the factory setting. You might want to double-check so you know whenever you hook up how long you'll need to wait.

Did the same with my mini-split and DIY EMS install. The A/C has a built in delay so I kept the factory jumper in so I’m at 15 secs which is very nice. Escape was pulling the jumper to protect the A/C as the Dometic Penguin unit they were using didn’t have its own protection I believe. It appears this has changed regarding the stock A/C but who knows if Escape changed what they do. Best to simply time the unit or check with Escape. The problem is if someone wants to go from the 136s to 15s they will need the jumper. Unless it was left loose inside the EMS I doubt that current owners have it. Might need to contact Progressive Industries for one.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye Ed

As long as we're discussing the features of the Progressive Industries EMS installed in Escape trailers as an option,

I read the manuals for our 5.0 air conditioner and thermostat. There's a built-in time delay that protects the AC from damage. I installed my own Progressive EMS and left the time delay set at the factory setting: 15 seconds since the AC-protection time delay is already taken care of. That way whenever I hook up to shore power or my generator, I don't have to wait over 2 minutes to hear the big click when the EMS finally connects. Fifteen seconds I can deal with.

For those of you who had the EMS installed by Escape, I can't say whether they changed the factory setting. You might want to double-check so you know whenever you hook up how long you'll need to wait.

This made curious as I thought the delay built into the Dometic air conditioner only activated on initial power application. So, out to the trailer and turned on the AC. Blower comes on after short delay and then the AC compressor after a several minute delay.

Now for the test. I turned off the breaker to the AC and then back on simulating a temporary power loss. The blower immediately came back on and then after a couple of seconds, the AC compressor kicked back on.

I'm leaving my EMS delay at 136 seconds.

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Did the same with my mini-split and DIY EMS install. The A/C has a built in delay so I kept the factory jumper in so I’m at 15 secs which is very nice. Escape was pulling the jumper to protect the A/C as the Dometic Penguin unit they were using didn’t have its own protection I believe. It appears this has changed regarding the stock A/C but who knows if Escape changed what they do. Best to simply time the unit or check with Escape. The problem is if someone wants to go from the 136s to 15s they will need the jumper. Unless it was left loose inside the EMS I doubt that current owners have it. Might need to contact Progressive Industries for one.

Escape did not include one in mine. Progressive sent me one for free. They did ask for a photo of the pins so there might be different jumpers...