Generator vs. Solar recharge

[Perry Butler]

I've stated this before on this forum: "Where else are you going to have a quality install of a 190 watt solar panel for $710?" Answer: "Nowhere!" We looked around and were worried about some of the installers, and they would have to install not really knowing how the camper was built. ETI knows how to properly mount the panel on your roof, route the wires correctly/efficiently at the original build, and gave us solar we really don't worry about.

Generators take oil, gas, maintenance, storage space, and sooner or later someone will yell at you about your generator.

Portables need to be stored, setup, worried about theft, and put away. We do have one though.

A single panel on your roof works all the time there is any sun. We have over 300 nights in our Escape (easily 150 without services) and have yet to need a generator, whereas our portable has only been used one time. All the other days/nights our 170 watt ETI supplied panel has provided all the power we need.

You're spending quite a bit of money on an Escape 19. Spend a few pennies more. ETI's solar is a good system, installed correctly, no maintenance, at a great price, and works without you thinking about it. Don't leave home without one!

Enjoy,

Perry

[Ian and Sue]

Originally Posted by thunderworks

My wife and I are newbie RV people. We bought a used Casita this year and really enjoyed it, but have sold the Casita and have an Escape 19 or order for delivery next May.

We're pondering the solar question, and there is much to learn . . . We have a Honda 2200i small generator. Apart from running the air conditioning, nothing on the Escape requires AC power - the fridge runs on propane (or DC if a compressor unit). Lights, fan for the furnace, water pump etc. are the DC power users.

We are NOT regular boondockers (or at least we haven't been yet). So, the question:

How long does a generator have to run to recharge batteries? If we are camped where there isn't shore power, how often would you have to run a generator to recharge to run the water pump, LED lights, etc? Would this be a daily requirement?

I know there are plenty of variables here, but I'm looking for broad-brush guidance.

R.

I do have the factory 160 watt solar panel and it is great! Most of the time it is all we need. I don't even plug in the camper at home anymore, just let the solar do its thing.

We do have a Honda 3000is that came with a previous camper and lives in the back of my truck except in the winter. I keep it for a few reasons. One my work occasionally requires remote power and the gen is a lifesaver.
Two it is for emergency use at home.
Three we have used the gen to run the air conditioning when really hot to cool the camper down for the evening or to escape a brutally hot afternoon. We usually don't run it for more than a few hours. In the spring and fall I do run it for an hour or two at dinner time to make up for what the furnace uses. If we are staying in one place for a week and it is shady or late in the year it is nice to have the gen to top off the batteries once or twice a week. The Honda is so quiet that at dinner time it does not seem to bother others as it is usually a noisy time of day anyway. I know it IS noise but I have asked neighbors and they don't seem to mind. I have a long cord and do try to face it away from other campsites. Although it is often not even heard because of the construction gen set a few campsites away!

My advise is definitely get the solar. Bring the generator along for a year(you already own it) and see if you use it enough to justify carting it with you. If you don't use it after the year sell it and it will more than pay for the solar.

[thunderworks]

Originally Posted by Ian and Sue

I do have the factory 160 watt solar panel and it is great! Most of the time it is all we need. I don't even plug in the camper at home anymore, just let the solar do its thing.

We do have a Honda 3000is that came with a previous camper and lives in the back of my truck except in the winter. I keep it for a few reasons. One my work occasionally requires remote power and the gen is a lifesaver.
Two it is for emergency use at home.
Three we have used the gen to run the air conditioning when really hot to cool the camper down for the evening or to escape a brutally hot afternoon. We usually don't run it for more than a few hours. In the spring and fall I do run it for an hour or two at dinner time to make up for what the furnace uses. If we are staying in one place for a week and it is shady or late in the year it is nice to have the gen to top off the batteries once or twice a week. The Honda is so quiet that at dinner time it does not seem to bother others as it is usually a noisy time of day anyway. I know it IS noise but I have asked neighbors and they don't seem to mind. I have a long cord and do try to face it away from other campsites. Although it is often not even heard because of the construction gen set a few campsites away!

My advise is definitely get the solar. Bring the generator along for a year(you already own it) and see if you use it enough to justify carting it with you. If you don't use it after the year sell it and it will more than pay for the solar.

OP here. The consensus is clear that solar is a really worthwhile upgrade. I will keep my small generator for home emergencies and will keep it with me in the truck when traveling in the summer heat, but presumably can rely on the solar for the vast bulk of our energy needs when not hooked up to shore power.

Thanks to all who have offered advice.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Ian and Sue

The Honda is so quiet that at dinner time it does not seem to bother others as it is usually a noisy time of day anyway. I know it IS noise but I have asked neighbors and they don't seem to mind. I have a long cord and do try to face it away from other campsites. Although it is often not even heard because of the construction gen set a few campsites away!

With the price drop and increased selection of inverter generators now (beyond just Honda and Yamaha) my hope is that anyone who feels the need to have a generator for camping will buy one of these. No one should be using an open frame construction generator on a campsite! I had a camping trip disturbed a few years ago when a Class A pulled up near us on a parking lot site and pulled out a super loud generator on our side of the rig. I was going out camping to get away from the noise of everyday life. Only reason I didn't say something was because we went out hiking and fishing for most of the day anyway.

I do the same thing as you when I need to run the Honda EU2000i. Long cord and exhaust facing in the best direction away from people. It's a bit of a pain to carry but three sides and a top made of 2" Foamular rigid insulation generously spaced around the generator works wonders. With this around it and the exhaust facing away it is just a low hum. Use some 6" lag screws pushed into pre-drilled holes through the sides and into the ends to hold it together. I still need to paint ours brown or green.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Owens-Co...52DD/202085962

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt...3996/204647865

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by thunderworks

My wife and I are newbie RV people. We bought a used Casita this year and really enjoyed it, but have sold the Casita and have an Escape 19 or order for delivery next May.

We're pondering the solar question, and there is much to learn . . . We have a Honda 2200i small generator. Apart from running the air conditioning, nothing on the Escape requires AC power - the fridge runs on propane (or DC if a compressor unit). Lights, fan for the furnace, water pump etc. are the DC power users.

We are NOT regular boondockers (or at least we haven't been yet). So, the question:

How long does a generator have to run to recharge batteries? If we are camped where there isn't shore power, how often would you have to run a generator to recharge to run the water pump, LED lights, etc? Would this be a daily requirement?

I know there are plenty of variables here, but I'm looking for broad-brush guidance.

R.

We have a generator and got one solar panel on our new Escape 19.

Typically running the generator 30 minutes a day is enough to replenish any 12 volt usage.

We always try to find a shady site to park, so I'm not really sold on solar. We only got one panel, because if you are parked in the sun it is more than enough. If you are parked in the shade, getting a second panel that is also in the shade makes no sense to me.

Getting a Zamp Port and a portable solar panel might be an option, however having had things stolen from National Park Campsites in two consecutive years, I'm not a fan of that either.

Our use concept is running the generator when cooking a meal that way it can power the convection microwave and recharge the batteries at the same time.

[GeorgeATX]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

The modern equivalent is the fuel cell from a Toyota Mirai, available with whole used car attached for about one percent of the cost of that million-dollar prototype; it put out 114 kW from 37 litre (1.3 cubic feet) volume (plus supporting equipment) and 57 kg mass (of just the fuel cell stack). Toyota has been building them for so long that they're on their third generation of fuel cell cars; Honda and Hyundai make them as well. Fuel cells stacks are batteries (a bunch of cells linked in series), so one could use a shorter stack for the same current at lower voltage, and only about 5% of this stack would be needed to produce a few kilowatts at RV battery voltage. Still hydrogen, though... that's been an issue since fuel cells were first used in vehicles over half a century ago.

There are hydrogen fuel cells sold for residential use (presumably in some experimental project) with lower output, but unless hydrogen fuel cell vehicles become common they will be useless for an RV... and if you have a fuel cell (or any other hybrid) vehicle, you don't need a fuel cell in the trailer.

By the way, a hybrid tow vehicle could be a very effective generator for the trailer, but very few people tow with hybrids.

The 2021 Ford F-150 has a 3.5L V6 Hybrid engine (called PowerBoost) available on all trim levels and it comes with AC outlets in the truck bed for power tools. So your tow vehicle could function as your generator and theoretically you could also charge your RV batteries while traveling.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by GeorgeATX

The 2021 Ford F-150 has a 3.5L V6 Hybrid engine (called PowerBoost) available on all trim levels and it comes with AC outlets in the truck bed for power tools. So your tow vehicle could function as your generator and theoretically you could also charge your RV batteries while traveling.

Your batteries already should be charging while travelling via the power lead of the 7 pin connector.

[UncleTim]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

We have a generator and got one solar panel on our new Escape 19.

Typically running the generator 30 minutes a day is enough to replenish any 12 volt usage.

We always try to find a shady site to park, so I'm not really sold on solar. We only got one panel, because if you are parked in the sun it is more than enough. If you are parked in the shade, getting a second panel that is also in the shade makes no sense to me.

There are other considerations for two panels.

1. They are oriented differently. One is slanted backwards a little and one slightly forward.

2. One might be in shade and one in Sun. Or more likely both in partial shade.

3. Two panels are very fast.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by UncleTim

Two panels are very fast.

So is a generator.

When you can purchase a WEN 2350 inverter generator for $430, it's hard to convince me throwing more money at Solar is a solution. The WEN is extremely quite when in ECO mode and charging the batteries with the built in converter (55 amp / 660 watts).

For my type of camping which almost always involves finding the shadiest most remote site available, I'm not even sure one solar panel was justified.

[h2owmn]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

It is difficult to fully charge lead acid batteries with a generator. Getting up to 80% of full only takes a couple of hours because the converter will (or should) be in the bulk mode, dumping as much amperage as possible into the batteries.

At around 80% the converter will switch to the absorption stage, which limits charging current to prevent off gassing and overheating. It will take as much as 4-6 hours to finish the last 20%. Most users just recharge to a little more than 80% and ignore fully charging the batteries. If you have solar and find that there isn't enough sun or panel to fully charge your batteries, a good practice is to use the generator in the morning to get to 80%, then let the slow but steady charge rate solar provides to finish off the charge to full.

Firing up the generator at the end of the day is not as efficient because by then the batteries are probably at the point where the converter will go to absorption, limit charging current & waste gas.

Jon, i know that your response applies to use of a generator, but does the “at 80% switch to absorption....” part apply to Batteries charging on shore power and also to portable solar with a control? I’m on house power at my son’s, using Max fan sometimes and minimum lighting. It’s reading consistently about 12.5. If I use only portable solar, it gets up to 13.2. Is that the difference in the absorption stage settings? Or?

Thanks in advance for your reply.

I got ac and am glad of it, even thought I’ve only used it a handful of times in 2 years. I do have a ryobi Tabletop fan that plugs in and also runs on the battery(s) for my drill. Combined with max fan, it’s been a lifesaver when there’s no shore power.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by GeorgeATX

The 2021 Ford F-150 has a 3.5L V6 Hybrid engine (called PowerBoost) available on all trim levels and it comes with AC outlets in the truck bed for power tools. So your tow vehicle could function as your generator and theoretically you could also charge your RV batteries while traveling.

Yes, that's a good example of a mild hybrid system, and charging the trailer battery via the truck's inverter and the trailer's converter should be much more effective than the 12 V DC connection (assuming the user is willing to do some wiring work to make an AC connection which is suitable for use in motion).

These will become more common as tugs, now that they're available. This Ford system is set up to export power; although the Ram eTorque hybrid system is similar, it isn't set up to provide significant power to an outlet and limited by the use of the truck's 12 volt battery to run the inverter that feeds the outlet.

[UncleTim]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

So is a generator.

When you can purchase a WEN 2350 inverter generator for $430, it's hard to convince me throwing more money at Solar is a solution. The WEN is extremely quite when in ECO mode and charging the batteries with the built in converter (55 amp / 660 watts).

For my type of camping which almost always involves finding the shadiest most remote site available, I'm not even sure one solar panel was justified.

If you are camping where I think you are, mid to northern Florida, I would LOVE to hear more about your camping. Am I close to the mark?

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by UncleTim

If you are camping where I think you are, mid to northern Florida, I would LOVE to hear more about your camping. Am I close to the mark?

Most of my camping involves two month long trips in August and September, up through Michigan's UP then westward. In 2018 it was west to Yellowstone, in 2019 it was west to Yosemite via Crater Lake.

We avoid Interstates as much as possible and when not visiting National Parks we prefer to camp in National Forest Campgrounds as much as possible. With the exception of Yellowstone and Yosemite, we normally spend about 4 days at a location before moving on.

Our most recent trip was to Washington to pick up our Escape 19 with plans to spend at least a week at Glacier on the way back. When we got to Glacier visibility was down to a mile due to the forest fires west of there. We decided that Glacier was a bust, and that we would have to come back again in the future.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

Getting a Zamp Port and a portable solar panel might be an option, however having had things stolen from National Park Campsites in two consecutive years, I'm not a fan of that either.

TT: That is really sad to hear. What was stolen?

[Tim Orr]

I couldn't have said it better myself. Great advice.

[steve dunham]

There are many things about operating a generator when camping that are offensive,
noise is just one of them .

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

...

Getting a Zamp Port and a portable solar panel might be an option, however having had things stolen from National Park Campsites in two consecutive years, I'm not a fan of that either.
...

Fortunately I have not had anything stolen at a National Park, but it never hurts to make life a bit more difficult for thieves. My panel is welded to an "A" frame which makes tilt adjustments easy and allows me to chain it to some ground screws and lock it down. Sure, it might take an extra 30 seconds for a thief to break it out, but that does tilt the odds slightly more in my favor.
--
Alan

[salmo7000]

My plea is, get the solar panel, forget the generator, and if you are camping somewhere you need air conditioning, go to a campground that has hookups.

I just returned from a 12-day camping trip. 10 of the 12 nights I was out, I was surrounded by behemoth 35+ ft 5-wheels in a dispersed camping area on BLM land. Every single one had their generator running pretty much 24/7. They had their televisions on all day and most of the night. Rather than playing outside, their children were inside playing video games or glued to their phones. The constant generator noise about drove me nuts. When they finally all left, all you could hear were birds and wind in the trees, and it was like heaven. If I wasn't already completely irritated, I would have felt sorry for these people. Here they were, camped in a beautiful spot, and they missed the best part.

I cannot for the life of me understand why people even go camping if they can't live even 1 or 2 hours without electricity. And when they have it they just sit inside their trailers and watch TV and surf the internet. It is really beyond me. One of the main reasons I go camping is to unplug. What was most wonderful about camping last week is I "missed out" on what I considered after the fact a horrific stream of news. Sometimes it is not necessary to be informed

But, I do understand the need to run a generator for an hour or 2 to charge batteries. The beauty of Escapes, as many have pointed out, is you don't need to do this if you invest in their solar system. So that's my advice to anyone in the process of developing their build! Get it, you won't regret it, and neither will anyone you're camped next to.

[Centex]

The world in general, including the world of camping/glamping, is a wonderfully diverse place. Quite often that means we encounter folks who's camping/glamping lifestyles don't align with our own in one way or another. Inherent in that is varying degrees of consideration for others among the participating population, even when everyone plays 'within the rules' of a given camping location.

Sometimes that means we 'get to' (or 'have to') make choices about things like where we choose to camp/glamp in order to satisfy our own preferences.

Such is life and reality. The world isn't 'ideal' and if it were 'ideal' as imagined by any one person it'd likely be a very dull place and existence indeed.

Everyone (in the US and Canada at least) can exercise options that bear on how they do or don't cope with life and reality and the stresses attendant (external or self-inflicted).

Just sayin'

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

TT: That is really sad to hear. What was stolen?

They were both more of a nuisance than financial.

In 2018 at Grant Village Campground at Yellowstone, I had a Amazon order delivered to the campground. When I inquired at the registration about a the delivery they said it was fine and that I would just have to come there to pick it up. The day it was delivered they decided to be nice and bring it out to my site. There was a guy sitting at my picnic table smoking a cigarettes. When the employee came up, he claimed the package, and by the time we got back for the day it was long gone. The guy may have been staking out our trailer looking for an opportunity to break in, since our old RV was a hybrid with canvas beds front and rear. Or, he may have overheard my wife and I talking about getting an Amazon package. Or he may have just randomly been there I don't know. Either way, we filed a report with the Rangers, contacted Amazon who refunded our purchase price, but, it still makes me wary.

In 2019 at Tuolumne Meadows Campground in Yosemite, we had left for the day. In our Sprinter van (no trailer this trip), and while we were gone someone stole 7 lego leveling blocks, and a plastic Rubbermaid step stool from our site. I normally lock up everything I can, but, didn't think someone would steal those items. It only cost $40 to replace them, but, it again reminded me that people will steal ANYTHING that isn't nailed down.

As an aside when we made the report at Yellowstone, the Rangers said they had entire campsites stolen. People would leave for the day and come back and find their tent and every piece of gear gone.