Seeking Electrical Advice

[John From MN]

Hi All,

Looking for advice on an electrical issue with our 1 month old 21NE.

We picked up our new 21NE in Sumas on July 20 2023. We then spent 3 weeks camping at various RV parks on our way back home to Minneapolis.
We had electrical and water hookups all nights except for one but it seemed our battery system was working just fine.

Things went pretty smoothly overall. When we got home, I parked the trailer at a local outdoor storage yard on August 11. It is uncovered and has been getting 6 to 8 hours a day of full sun most days. We did not leave the MaxxFan or anything else on, but did leave the fan cover open and the bathroom and kitchen windows cracked for some passive air circulation.

We stopped by 2 days ago to check on it and to take some measurements for some curtains we intend to install. At that time I noticed the indoor trailer lights did not seem very bright and were flickering intermittently. Also, I tried running the MaxxFan but it would only run for approx. 10 to 30 seconds and then stop. No beeps or warnings, it would just stop running like it had run out of power.

FWIW, It has pretty much every electrical and solar option Escape offers including the 4 Lithium batteries. I’m new to solar systems and unsure how to read my Victron Monitor so I’m not sure what my next steps are for trouble shooting and fixing. I took a short vid of myself paging though the Victron menu, but I am not allowed to upload it here for some reason.

I’d appreciate any advice!

[Ron in BC]

I'm sure those with Victron monitors will say that it's not necessary but I don't have one so this is what I'd do.

If you don't already have one buy a inexpensive, 10 bucks or so, multimeter. Fine for trouble shooting.

First I'd check battery voltage at the terminals. Inconceivable that they're flat but until you confirm it's a loose end.

Then I'd take the panel cover off and measure the voltage coming in to the fuses.

Then I'd measure the voltage coming from to solar to the controller.

Quick and easy to do and might point the way to the problem. Could be something simple like a loose wire or ground.

Ron

[John From MN]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

I'm sure those with Victron monitors will say that it's not necessary but I don't have one so this is what I'd do.

If you don't already have one buy a inexpensive, 10 bucks or so, multimeter. Fine for trouble shooting.

First I'd check battery voltage at the terminals. Inconceivable that they're flat but until you confirm it's a loose end.

Then I'd take the panel cover off and measure the voltage coming in to the fuses.

Then I'd measure the voltage coming from to solar to the controller.

Quick and easy to do and might point the way to the problem. Could be something simple like a loose wire or ground.

Ron

Thanks Ron!

I have a reliable multi meter that i bought for working on my motorcycles but I'm no expert on using it. Curious, do I need to disconnect all 4 batteries from each other before I check voltage at the terminals? Hoping maybe I just have a loose cable between the batteries.

[Ron in BC]

Presuming that the batteries are wired in parallel, touching one probe to the + and one to the negative will give you an average of all the batteries. Either the + connections or the - connections have to be undone to read the specific voltage of an individual battery.

However just reading the overall voltage should be enough to eliminate it as a problem if it's well up in the 12 or 13 volt range.

Ron

[MVA]

John,

From your post, it appears you did not measure the state of charge on the battery bank prior to storage. Hence, although you seemly have significant battery capacity, the state of charge could have been significantly less than you wish.

I typically start with simple potential problems in cases like this (re: Occam's razor). Given your comment that you selected almost every option that ETI offers, I am assuming you have an inverter. Hence, when you put the trailer into storage, did you disconnect the battery via the disconnect switch and switch off the inverter? Since everything worked prior to storage about a week ago, I would look for parasitic losses (inverter, LP detector, etc.) or active loses (e.g., refrigerator left on DC mode). I realize that you have a lot of battery capacity, but without knowing the state of charge (SOC) at storage, running the battery to a very low SOC may not take much power draw.

So I agree with measuring the voltage per Ron's comment, but also check battery disconnect switch, inverter power switch, refrigerator power switch, etc.

[Ooshkaboo]

Did you leave your inverter on?

[John From MN]

Thank you all for your replies!


I did not turn off the inverter or disconnect the batteries for this short term storage but did make sure the fridge and everything else was turned off. I assumed that as the trailer has been getting so much sun that the small parasitic drain of the inverter would not be an issue. It sounds like maybe I was wrong? I'll drive over there today to turn off the inverter, but with the current heatwave we're having in Minneapolis, I won't do any more diagnostics until the weekend.


John

[Ooshkaboo]

That will be a good step in your troubleshooting, with the time between you’ll be able to see if things charge back up.
Definitely leave your batteries connected, for this short term experiment anyway.

When things cool off go through all the electrical connections you can get to and not only tighten them up but pull on the connectors to seen if the wire slips out.

[Ian and Sue]

Originally Posted by John From MN

Thank you all for your replies!


I did not turn off the inverter or disconnect the batteries for this short term storage but did make sure the fridge and everything else was turned off. I assumed that as the trailer has been getting so much sun that the small parasitic drain of the inverter would not be an issue. It sounds like maybe I was wrong? I'll drive over there today to turn off the inverter, but with the current heatwave we're having in Minneapolis, I won't do any more diagnostics until the weekend.


John

I don't know what the exact numbers are but inverters are inherently inefficient. If it were me I only turn on the inverter when I am running on battery power and want to use AC otherwise it is off.

[Selkirk]

I believe the GoPower 1500w inverter that ETI typically uses continually draws about 2A when powered up with no AC load.......

[Mjschwart]

Did you figure this out yet? I’m in Minnetonka and have a ‘21 NE with lithium. The maxxfan is a POS. I’ve gone through two circuit boards already. LMK if you need help and I can try to stop by.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Mjschwart

The maxxfan is a POS. I’ve gone through two circuit boards already.

Have you tried drying the circuit board with a hair dryer or heat gun? They're located in a high humidity area and not all that resistant to moisture. Works for me.

Some have coated them with a conformal coating to make them more moisture resistant.

Ron

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Selkirk

I believe the GoPower 1500w inverter that ETI typically uses continually draws about 2A when powered up with no AC load.......

... and 2 amps 24 hours/day is 48 amp*hours/day, and 336AH/week. thats enough to flatten most any battery in a week.

get in the habit of ONLY turning on the inverter when you actually need it and shutting it off when you're done.

I *would* recommend getting a shunt monitor. I am a nerd, I like the Victron SmartShunt, but that requires you use a android or iphone device with bluetooth to read... if you just want a display, get a Victron BMV... the BMV712 gives you both, display AND bluetooth. With the bluetooth phone, you can look at total power usage over a the last day or week or whatever, and get graphs like...



these are connected between the trailer negative cable and the battery - post, so you'll need a short heavy gauge battery jumper wire to go from the - post to the shunt, then connect the existing - cable to the other side of the shunt. the shunt also has a thin red wire that goes to the battery + terminal for measuring voltage, and if its the BMV kind, a 'telephone' style wire between the shunt and the display panel.

[John From MN]

Thanks all for your advice!
Sorry for the slow reply but I’ve been laid up with a back injury for several days. To update since my last post:

On 8/23, I drove over to the storage site and turned off the inverter.
On 8/26, I drove over again and picked up the trailer and hauled it back to our house. I then downloaded the VictronConnect app and linked to the “BMV-712 Smart Battery Monitor” and the “Orion-TR Smart DC-DC Charger Isolated”. As near as I can tell, everything appears normal and fully charged and the fan and lights now work as they should so it seems the inverter had drained the batteries.
I had intended to work my way through the system with a multimeter and make sure all connections were clean and tight etc., but first decided to mount the Camco Screen Door protector I had bought so our dogs could safely come visit the trailer while I was fumbling around with the multimeter. As I was putting away my tools from that installation, I lifted my tool box clumsily and suffered a nasty back spasm which put me in bed on an ice pack for a couple days. In the mean time, my wife installed drawer and cabinet liners, a blackout curtain and tension rods in all the usual places. On 8/31, I drove the trailer back over to the storage facility because we’re currently not enjoying another record setting heat wave for several days.
I hope to pickup the trailer again later this week and complete the electrical stuff and will report back when completed.


John

[MVA]

John,

Sorry for your strained back, and glad for you that the issue may be a simple solution. You will like the data you can get from the BMV-712. You will have confidence on the SOC of your batteries and be able to detect the level of current draw of different devices (e.g., inverter stand-by current, total current for propane detector + USB outlets, etc.)

[John From MN]

Just to wrap up this thread, It turned out the batteries were draining due to operator error. When I stored the trailer the 1st two times, I had decided to pull the electric brake breakaway cable out and use it as parking brake. I've since learned that this was a big no-no.
Everything still seems to be working just fine. I hope I didn't cause any permanent damage to it!

[John in Santa Cruz]

oooh, 4 brakes is a lot of current, like 3-6 amps each, I think?

[HABBERDABBER]

Originally Posted by John From MN

When I stored the trailer the 1st two times, I had decided to pull the electric brake breakaway cable out and use it as parking brake. I've since learned that this was a big no-no.
Everything still seems to be working just fine. I hope I didn't cause any permanent damage to it!

I've read that the electromagnets in the brake system can be damaged when left engaged for long periods.
It may be prudent to pull a brake drum to see if there is heat discoloration or test each brake by raising and spinning the tire and pulling the break-away plug.
Brakes are a handy thing to have when you need them.
The use of wheel chocks are an even more positive method to hold your rig in one place.

good luck

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

oooh, 4 brakes is a lot of current, like 3-6 amps each, I think?

3 amps each for a total of 12 amps on a dual axle trailer

[John From MN]

Originally Posted by HABBERDABBER

I've read that the electromagnets in the brake system can be damaged when left engaged for long periods.
It may be prudent to pull a brake drum to see if there is heat discoloration or test each brake by raising and spinning the tire and pulling the break-away plug.
Brakes are a handy thing to have when you need them.
The use of wheel chocks are an even more positive method to hold your rig in one place.

good luck

Thanks to all for the replies!
Since discovering my error in judgement, we've taken the trailer on an approx. 500 mile camping trip in Northern MN and experimenting with the brake controller in our 2021 F150, there seems to be no change in trailer brake performance. We're planning on putting the trailer into winter storage soon, but next spring, I'll check for brake discoloration.