Some newbie battery questions and assumptions

[Dan Moric]

Ok thanks all. So my brake pin was out for 3 days unfortunately. Will need to ensure I haven't fried that and as far as a Lithium upgrade goes, will begin to do my homework but now recognize it is not as easy as a 1:1 swap. thx!

We do like to be "boondocking" for 7-10 days at a time in the shoulder season when not much sun around for the solar panel to work with up here on the rainy westcoast so this is why I am considering the Lithium upgrade

[oldwave]

Originally Posted by Dan Moric

Ok thanks all. So my brake pin was out for 3 days unfortunately. Will need to ensure I haven't fried that and as far as a Lithium upgrade goes, will begin to do my homework but now recognize it is not as easy as a 1:1 swap. thx!

We do like to be "boondocking" for 7-10 days at a time in the shoulder season when not much sun around for the solar panel to work with up here on the rainy westcoast so this is why I am considering the Lithium upgrade

Then it makes sense. Great resources out there and on the forum.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by RangerMan

Reading the manual is almost as sissy as asking for directions.

They say if all else fails read the manual. I seem to prefer

Originally Posted by Dan Moric

OK, so after various guided attempts to recharge/desulfate the batteries it appears they are gone and beyond repair.

I've been down that road all my life with batteries of every type. For me it's been a win some, lose some situation. I've had some heart breakers, seemed like I'd won but then they crapped out for good.

I bought a 100Ah lithium battery for my trolling motor. Found out why people love them so much. Quite incredible compared to lead acid.

But for now I'm not installing it in the trailer, it'll be available for emergency use only. It does appear that going the full lithium route is a real rabbit hole with a lot to learn. Probably worth it in the end, maybe when my current two lead acid batteries die I'll get motivated to go the full lithium route.

Ron

[dfandrews]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

They say if all else fails read the manual. I seem to prefer ...Ron

Ah yes: is indeed my typical path as well.
The only rationalle that makes sense is that it allows me to buy more tools.

(Aside: when we first got our Escape, and I prepared a travel tool box specifically with "just in case I would need it" stuff, I assembled a 30 lb. box full with just duplicates of what I had on hand.)

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by Dan Moric

...
We do like to be "boondocking" for 7-10 days at a time in the shoulder season when not much sun around for the solar panel to work with up here on the rainy westcoast so this is why I am considering the Lithium upgrade

I also decided to experiment 2 years ago with a single 100AH Lithium battery for my trolling motor. Easy to charge at home and works great. And I take it into the Escape when contemplating a shoulder season/shaded campsite and want to use an electric blanket instead of running the furnace at night.

But after much debate over the pros and cons of using Lithium full time in the trailer - and there are plenty of both - I bit the bullet and bought a pair of 100AH Lithiums - yet to be installed. My current AGM batteries are at the end of their 7th season and due for a change. At the moment I do not have any charging systems in the trailer that can provide the recommended 14.4 voltage so will have undercharged batteries for a while.

But my camping profile is to boondock for only 2 to 3 nights in the shoulder season. 2 x 100AH should be quite sufficient since my earlier AGMs were sufficient - given my conservative power budget. You however, are contemplating 7 to 10 days in a part of the world where zero solar is a real possibility. 2 batteries of any chemistry may not be sufficient unless you are ultra-conservative in power use. Just a thought: You may want to consider 3 or even 4 Lithium batteries. The total weight is still less than the original 2 x 6V flooded lead-acids. With 400AH of Lithium storage you can charge at home and not worry about sunshine for a week or more and not have to worry about changing all the charging systems in the trailer.

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by dfandrews

Ah yes: is indeed my typical path as well.
The only rationalle that makes sense is that it allows me to buy more tools.

(Aside: when we first got our Escape, and I prepared a travel tool box specifically with "just in case I would need it" stuff, I assembled a 30 lb. box full with just duplicates of what I had on hand.)

This reminds me of my justification for both a garage tool box and another one in the house basement....... and now a smaller third one to take in the Escape!

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by alanmalk

You however, are contemplating 7 to 10 days in a part of the world where zero solar is a real possibility. 2 batteries of any chemistry may not be sufficient unless you are ultra-conservative in power use. Just a thought: You may want to consider 3 or even 4 Lithium batteries. The total weight is still less than the original 2 x 6V flooded lead-acids. With 400AH of Lithium storage you can charge at home and not worry about sunshine for a week or more and not have to worry about changing all the charging systems in the trailer.

I suggest Dan and others that may be considering a large lithium battery bank to consider the single 400AH Bestgo that several of us are using. This thing ran my 9,000 BTUH mini-split A/C for 5 hours on a 90 degree day in full sun off a 2000W inverter with no solar input. Probably could have got another hour but didn’t want to discharge any further. Weighs only 89#. The battery is actually derated so 400+ usable amp-hours. Compare that to 130# for dual 6V lead acid Interstates with really only 115AH usable (@ 50% max DoD). So that’s almost 4x the energy at 40# LESS weight. For comparison four separate 100AH Battleborn lithium batteries would be ~125# and have a larger footprint. Bestgo is about half the cost too.

https://www.electriccarpartscompany....-battery-packs

Post with pictures of final installation of Bestgo battery
https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...tml#post391787

Post of my final electrical design incorporating Bestgo lithium battery
https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...tml#post380809

[Sean Murry]

When I bought my 4 x 100 A Battle Born batteries 2 years ago they were $1000 each so half the cost indeed. Simple too, just one battery versus 4.

[Dan Moric]

Plenty of excellent advice and lots to think about. I am set on making the move to Lithium now just need to make sure I measure twice and cut once this time! I like the idea of the 400Ah bestgo and will give that some more research. Will study your design and photos and will undoubtedly have more questions! Thanks again!

[Jack!]

Originally Posted by Dan Moric

I recently experienced fully depleting my batteries (2x6 V) by unknowingly deploying the run-away break on the hitch while parked in the campsite. I understand this creates a big draw on the battery until put back in place)

Won't comment on the state of these batteries but rather on a future, prevention, suggestion. You might want to look into a Thornwave shunt. It has long range bluetooth monitoring on battery state of charge and stores all related power data on the shunt for a 3 year period, used to follow battery health over time. This shunt can control a mechanical or solid-state relay which allows it to be used for low voltage disconnect, high voltage disconnect, over-current disconnect, remote power control, or as timer. Real handy item for $150.

[Jack!]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

I suggest Dan and others that may be considering a large lithium battery bank to consider the single 400AH

This was a timely post for me. I asked ETI for a wiring diagram on the 5.0 but they haven't gotten back to me yet. We are prepared to do a few electrical upgrades when the 5.0 arrives sometime in Feb2022. We picked up 4 BB batteries on a sale a few months ago. We picked up a Victron 100/50 MPPT solar charger and a Progressive Dynamics PD4655LIV. Both are easy swaps for the GoPower and WYCO chargers and will treat the new batteries a little better. I lacked a wiring diagram but Karl at ETI mentioned that the shipped trailer is setup to handle up to four 100ah Li batteries. I can now look over your wiring diagram and get a better idea what wiring, switches, and fuses are in play on Escape trailers.
Thanks for that!

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Jack!

This was a timely post for me. I asked ETI for a wiring diagram on the 5.0 but they haven't gotten back to me yet. We are prepared to do a few electrical upgrades when the 5.0 arrives sometime in Feb2022. We picked up 4 BB batteries on a sale a few months ago. We picked up a Victron 100/50 MPPT solar charger and a Progressive Dynamics PD4655LIV. Both are easy swaps for the GoPower and WYCO chargers and will treat the new batteries a little better. I lacked a wiring diagram but Karl at ETI mentioned that the shipped trailer is setup to handle up to four 100ah Li batteries. I can now look over your wiring diagram and get a better idea what wiring, switches, and fuses are in play on Escape trailers.
Thanks for that!

Jack: Don't hold your breath for an ETI wiring diagram. Ain't gonna happen. We have a much older trailer and ETI has made some improvements in the wiring since that time. You would be well served to study the base diagrams kindly produced by tdf-texas. They should help put the wiring modifications that I and others have done into the proper context. Wiring details seem to change all the time but these diagrams are a great guide. My recommendation is to trace out your entire system and note any differences. It also provides a great starting point for any redesign like I have posted above.
https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...ams-19980.html

[oldwave]

With 4 batteries I’d sure upgrade the wire from the charger to the bank and back to 6 gauge

[Jack!]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Jack: Don't hold your breath for an ETI wiring diagram. Ain't gonna happen. We have a much older trailer and ETI has made some improvements in the wiring since that time. You would be well served to study the base diagrams kindly produced by tdf-texas. They should help put the wiring modifications that I and others have done into the proper context. Wiring details seem to change all the time but these diagrams are a great guide. My recommendation is to trace out your entire system and note any differences. It also provides a great starting point for any redesign like I have posted above.
https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...ams-19980.html

Thanks very much for the diagrams links. Very good info and advice. Now I get need to get my hands on the actual trailer.

[DT6]

I believe the standard charge controller supports AGM batteries as well. If you are replacing your stock LA batteries, you might consider the AGMs as a compromise between upgrading to LiFePO4, which as others have mentioned will require a new charging system, etc. not to mention the cost of the batteries themselves (although they are coming down in price some). Just verify your charge controller has an AGM batter setting before getting them.

[DT6]

Here is a link to a similar discussion I started back in July, which may be of some use to your current situation: https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...ery-21208.html

[Jack!]

Originally Posted by oldwave

With 4 batteries I’d sure upgrade the wire from the charger to the bank and back to 6 gauge

Yes, without a doubt if they are still using 8agm on that run.. Karl at ETI mentioned the current trailers are wired to handle up to 4 Li batteries. He also mentioned on a recent video they are soon announcing (4th quarter) a significant new power option.
Can't wait to learn what that option will be.

[Centex]

Originally Posted by Jack!

Karl at ETI mentioned the current trailers are wired to handle up to 4 Li batteries.

Personally, given the OE wiring information on this forum and my own observations on my 2021 5.0, I'd take that with a (large) grain of salt. YMMV.

Have Fun!