Tongue weights

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by float5

Oh, I guess you or no one else has gotten anything wrong? More than a few times.

Actually, Brian B-P has corrected me several times, and I try to pay attention when he does. Never actually found myself able to counter his well researched information.

[float5]

I mean someone who corrects his or her own mistakes when he or she has given wrong information. Some people here do that which is always nice.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by float5

As far as unibodies, it is the frames that are not considered as strong --- is that not correct?

No, not really.

In simplest terms a unibody has no 'frame' as in a 'body on frame' vehicle. The sections of the body, when connected together (the 'uni' in unibody) make up both the body and the frame.

There are many benefits to unibody construction, the main one being that it's lighter than body on frame construction of similar size, and has more interior space. If designed properly, a unibody is stronger pound for pound than body on frame.

[cpaharley2008]

Speaking of weight, we had the pleasure of speaking with a fellow Canadian camper pulling a sob 5th wheel with a F150. He was impressed with the Ram 1500 build and pointed out that F150 does not have wheel well protection, it is an option, but not standard. Another way some companies shave weight. His entire wheel well area, frame, and suspension components were all exposed to the road elements, and showed the damage. My under carriage looked new compared to his.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

His entire wheel well area, frame, and suspension components were all exposed to the road elements, and showed the damage. My under carriage looked new compared to his.

Off topic, but on the flipside of that, my F150 body is made of aluminum instead of steel, and won't rust or corrode like steel can. Also, the wheel well inserts don't stop the frame or the suspension components from being exposed to the road elements - they protect the wheel wells and the body panels above them. Your undercarriage isn't protected in the slightest by the wheel well inserts.

[cpaharley2008]

His bed looked fine, it was the frame, suspension, and frame crossmember supporting the aluminum bed were corroded. An insert would have certainly helped there to keep the road salt off. Maybe not in Texas, but northern states use salt and brine in the winter, stuff is not not good on our vehicles.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

His bed looked fine, it was the frame, suspension, and frame crossmember supporting the aluminum bed were corroded. An insert would have certainly helped there to keep the road salt off. Maybe not in Texas, but northern states use salt and brine in the winter, stuff is not not good on our vehicles.

I guess I'm not following. The frame isn't enclosed by the wheel well inserts, nor is the suspension. They're open underneath the truck, and susceptible to corrosion and the road salt you mentioned. You may not be able to easily see corrosion with the inserts, but that doesn't mean it isn't happening. I suppose side splash is reduced by the inserts, but frame corrosion is going to occur with or without them.

EDIT: I like the look of the inserts, and I would certainly want them in a steel body truck, but to protect the body, not the frame.

[float5]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

No, not really.

In simplest terms a unibody has no 'frame' as in a 'body on frame' vehicle. The sections of the body, when connected together (the 'uni' in unibody) make up both the body and the frame.

There are many benefits to unibody construction, the main one being that it's lighter than body on frame construction of similar size, and has more interior space. If designed properly, a unibody is stronger pound for pound than body on frame.

I expected that that is the frame situation. Nevertheless, I believe that many consider a truck chassis to be better for towing. That is my impression from some experts. Perhaps you do not agree.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by float5

I expected that that is the frame situation. Nevertheless, I believe that many consider a truck chassis to be better for towing. That is my impression from some experts. Perhaps you do not agree.

Alot of it has to do with the weight of what you're towing. The prevailing opinion about a framed vehicle being better for towing doesn't really take into consideration a lightweight trailer.

A really easy indicator of how capable a vehicle is for towing is to just look at the published capacities.

[float5]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Alot of it has to do with the weight of what you're towing. The prevailing opinion about a framed vehicle being better for towing doesn't really take into consideration a lightweight trailer.

A really easy indicator of how capable a vehicle is for towing is to just look at the towing capacity.

What I have seen has been specifically regarding a light-weight trailer that would be towed under the 5.000 limit by a 4Runner. That was part of the information I used when choosing a vehicle, a truck chassis.

The towing capacity is often very misleading as some of us have tried to tell people. 5,000 does not mean 5,000 for many passenger vehicles. Have to look at the GCWR. I assume that you are referring to towing capacity with much higher numbers for large units. The towing capacity given is of no use many times on the kind of vehicles used for small trailers when one has to subtract from it on loading the TV, due to the GCWR limit. Very common to have to subtract.

[rbryan4]

I edited my post just as you quoted it. (Fast reply[emoji1] )

You have to take into consideration all the published capacities of course, not just the towing capacity.

None of this however has to do with whether or not you can use weight distribution on a unibody vehicle, or whether a body on frame vehicle of similar size is more suitable for towing than a unibody.

[float5]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

I edited my post just as you quoted it. (Fast reply[emoji1] )

You have to take into consideration all the published capacities of course, not just the towing capacity.

None of this however has to do with whether or not you can use weight distribution on a unibody vehicle, or whether a body on frame vehicle of similar size is more suitable for towing than a unibody.

Hey, sometimes I am as fast as you are.. I have read by some "experts" that a truck chassis is more suitable. Of course, everyone does not agree, I am sure.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by float5

Hey, sometimes I am as fast as you are.. I have read by some "experts" that a truck chassis is more suitable. Of course, everyone does not agree, I am sure.

It would be helpful if you could name your sources. "Experts" are everywhere on the web.

[float5]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

It would be helpful if you could name your sources. "Experts" are everywhere on the web.

I looked at vehicles quite a few years ago for our 2011. Lots of information. Others will have to do their own research. Vehicles change. I can give numbers to look at though, especially GCWR.

[gbaglo]

I'm talking about the "experts" saying you need a vehicle with a frame to tow a trailer.

[float5]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I'm talking about the "experts" saying you need a vehicle with a frame to tow a trailer.

I never said any such thing nor did I say that any expert ever said any such thing. Of course, vehicles such as RAVs are quite fine for towing.

There are lots of people who think you need a truck for towing. I do not.

Of course, I will say again, the choice on such matters has a great deal to do with how and where one travels. I generally do not travel the way many do. We do not all travel the same kinds of distances or on the same kinds of roads or terrain. What has worked for us may not work for someone else.

[War Eagle]

I don't know if this adds to the conversation, but I crawled under the rear end of our unibody 2002 Highlander that we tow our 2010 EggCamper with and took a few pictures. Not sure if you can tell what I'm talking about, but behind the rear axle, on both sides, there is a length of heavy gauge metal bent in a "U" shape about the size of a 2"x4" standing on edge, and that is what the rear suspension is bolted to. So I assume it's engineered strong enough to take a beating. A bit further back, it's that same "U" shaped piece that our factory/dealer installed 2" box hitch is bolted to, rated for 3,500 towing, 350 tongue. I was a bit surprised how small the bolts are that hold the hitch to that "U"-shaped unibody piece. But I have faith the engineers know what they are doing.

[Brian B-P]

Thanks Dale. Those are great illustrations of mounting points which are designed into the vehicle structure, and can reliably handle hitch forces. One reason that all brands of hitch receiver for the same vehicle tend to be almost the same design is that they all work with these specific mounting points.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by float5

A new generation came in about then so I am not sure the information you have is correct but then I suppose what you have may be for older vehicles. Our 2011 has a 6300 lb. GVWR --- allowing far above the capacity you are giving --- so maybe there was a big change then. I use my own vehicle of course when looking at this and all of the subsequent years are similar to mine.

The 4Runner also has more than 1300 lbs. extra over a Highlander for GCWR.

Then again, you are looking at someone's 2010 but Eric in Wisconsin has a new Highlander. So perhaps they are simply not comparable. It certainly does depend upon what year one is looking at and the newer model 4Runners since 2010 are very different in several ways.

I compared the two models in the same model year (2010). I chose that year because I was responding to the concern of Eric (in B.C.) and that's what he said he had, after expressing his concern with capacity and the possibility of changing vehicles:

Originally Posted by Eric & El

We have a 2010 Highlander 3.5l AWD with trans cooler.
...
My wife and I have talked of paying off the trailer then upgrading to something like a newer Forerunner.

It's easy to lose track of who is who in rambling discussions, and I don't know who Eric in Wisconsin would be.

Typically, new generations have higher GVWR because they also have higher curb weight (and so little if any payload increase), in the endless cycle of piling more "stuff" into vehicles.

[float5]

Brian, so you do not consider there to be any difference towing with a truck chassis vs. unibody, that they are more or less equal? No advantage to having a truck chassis for the same small trailer? Just a claim by the truck people. No difference when using a WDH with either also?