Towing on snow covered roads...

[Ynnde]

The advantage of snow tires over 4 season is more than a traction advantage in snow. The rubber compound remains more elastic at low temperatures which improves rubber to road contact for cold ,non snow conditions.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Ynnde

The advantage of snow tires over 4 season is more than a traction advantage in snow. The rubber compound remains more elastic at low temperatures which improves rubber to road contact for cold ,non snow conditions.

If I lived where it snowed regularly, I'd consider running dedicated winter tires and/or have a dedicated winter 'beater' car. But, I don't, snow is something I encounter for a couple days every few years going to other places.

Actually, if I lived where it snowed regularly, I'd probably move

btw, what you say about rubber compounds is certainly true, but the 3MPSF tires are halfway there.

[Ian and Sue]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

If I lived where it snowed regularly, I'd consider running dedicated winter tires and/or have a dedicated winter 'beater' car. But, I don't, snow is something I encounter for a couple days every few years going to other places.

Actually, if I lived where it snowed regularly, I'd probably move

btw, what you say about rubber compounds is certainly true, but the 3MPSF tires are halfway there.

Yup I live in the mountains of Vermont...lots of snow here and sometimes for work I just need to go. 4 x 4 with dedicated snow tires is a must and dedicated rims is a plus. The new non studdable tires are great and like others have said the rubber compounds are softer but also they have more cuts in the tread to present more edges to grip the snow and ice. If I lived where there was less snow a good all season tire would be just fine with four wheel drive.

As far as 2wd vs 4wd I will weigh in. Leave it in 2wd until the tires start to slip then lock it in 4wd high, 4wd low is for rough conditions when you need low and slow gears. When going downhill in the snow use the gears to keep your speed down...just be careful not to gear down at too high a speed...you will spin out! With today's antilock brakes DO NOT pump the brakes...let the anti lock do it for you . Take it slow...leave more space and if it gets too bad park and wait it out. The roads will be better tomorrow and your furnace will keep you warm and safe.

[zoolie]

One thing I have not noticed in this thread is the use of the break controller. Sure, turning the gain down will reduce the likely hood that your trailer is going to want to pass your tow vehicle under breaking in icy conditions but those conditions are forever variable on bad roads. I usually set my brakes for the average breaking condition and pay extra attention to changing road conditions and traffic to prepare for breaking.

The biggest GOTCHA is breaking when on a decline in slippery conditions. Be prepared for the trailer to try and pass you. If this happens, back off the tow vehicle foot break and apply the trailer brake control to bring it back in line. It is a worst case scenario but good to have an action plan in place for if the situation does occur. Most peoples tendency is to apply more tow vehicle brake which makes the problem worse!

I would also be hesitant to tow in 4A with my F-150. It is nice in urban conditions when you are doing sharp turns. In highway conditions, if they are bad enough, 4 High is my choice as I worry about the impact of 4A balancing the torque at highway speeds with the extra weight on the vehicle. Both work good in bad conditions though. Better to have it on and not need it than have it off and need it!

[Centex]

Originally Posted by zoolie

.... I would also be hesitant to tow in 4A with my F-150 .... as I worry about the impact of 4A balancing the torque at highway speeds with the extra weight on the vehicle....

The attached section from the Ford Service Manual, describing the general operation of the F150 TOD transfer case, might be of interest (and might even assuage your concerns regarding use of 4A with any load at any speed for which the truck is rated).

Just FYI / for your consideration.

[zoolie]

Thanks for the information. I have seen the Ford guidelines for 4A and I have found the 4A to work great when I use it.

I am still skeptical about it's effect in roads with changing conditions involving ice. The last thing I would want to do is put my drive terrain through the shock of adjusting power to 4 tires all in different levels of traction at highway speed. It would certainly not be catastrophic to the transmission or transfer case but would sure reduce the lifespan of it. I have seen other ford vehicles with "AWD" that work under the same principle have shortened transmission lifespans due to this effect.

For what it is worth, I would rather be in 4WD and having all 4 tires close to in sync when hitting an icy patch going up a hill. If it is a windy/curvy road, I use 4A which is nice. In my previous truck it would be in 2wd.

I am also cheap (ish I guess. No one truly cheep buys a new Escape 21 :-/ ) and have had transmissions and transfer cases let me down in the past and I have a deep mistrust in automakers. So please take this as my experience and my opinion, not fact

[CE Vogel]

Originally Posted by Centex

I might be wrong but it's my understanding that the particular situation of a 'jackknife' is often caused by the tug 'out-braking' the trailer. That is, the tug brakes (or engine deceleration) slowing the tug more than the trailer brakes slow the trailer, especially on slick surfaces or when the tug and trailer are not in perfect alignment (as in a curve).

As a former Big Rig Owner-Operator, I second this! The biggest risk when towing in slippery conditions is a jackknife, almost always caused when the trailer is pushing the tow vehicle. Rarely, a crosswind can cause a jackknife. Locked trailer brakes pretty much guarantee a jackknife in snow or ice. John's advice to dial back the trailer brakes is good, but the biggest risk mitigation is slow down! Leave lots of room in front, and go very slow down steep hills. Four wheel drive or all wheel drive are helpful going uphill, less so downhill. All my big rigs were rear wheel drive only, and sometimes I was in snow so deep the front bumper was plowing, yet I never jackknifed. Slow and steady wins!

[iamunique127]

It is only in the last few years I have run Snowflake/3 Mtn Peak tires and the difference is significant.



I had always had Michelin LTX AT2 all season tires with four wheel drive and got along fine... until I didn't: on a slight decline from a driveway in frigid and icy conditions they just slid down the ramp. I was hit broadside at slow speed and the truck was totalled. That prompted me to try dedicated winter tires. The difference really is night and day. Do I still have to be careful? Yes. Do I need to keep my distance? Yes. Can the tires still slip? Yes, of course, but much less so than the all seasons.

At relatively warm temperatures (+7 Celsius, which in Fahrenheit, is obviously still above freezing) the compounds in all-season tires harden enough to decrease their effective traction. Winter rated tires are softer, as someone explained earlier, with different tread patterns often containing more sipes for grip and channels for snow shedding.

The KO2 tires John From Santa Cruz described earlier are rugged and aggressively treaded and likely more noisy than a regular all season tire but not all winter tires are. As a matter of fact, most are not aggressive looking at all, nor noisy.

The Nokian snow tires I decided upon are no more noisy than my Michelins and not aggressive looking in any way. The tread just looks different.



One downfall of using snow/winter tires in warmer than +7ºC conditions is, due to the rubber being softer, they may wear slightly faster than harder tires. Now that I've tried them I'm willing to pay that price.

But, as in anything, to each their own. That's just my experience.

[John in Santa Cruz]

KO2 tires are all terrain, hence the big deep tread, but they are surprisingly smooth and quiet for A/T tires. sure, they are not as smooth/quiet as a pure highway tire, but they have much better grip on loose surfaces such as gravel, sand.

[Radar1]

You mentioned Big Bend. We camped at Chisos Basin in January one year. A winter storm was predicted to pass through in the evening, so we figured we could do a bit of siteseeing at Rio Grande village area, on the East side. We drove to Rio Grande, stopped in at the visitors center, the Ranger happened to be on the phone with the Chisos Basin Ranger.
Turns out, the storm came sooner than expected and they were already getting freezing rain at Chisos Basin and were going to close the road. Fortunately, they provided us enough time to hightail it back so we could get to our camper before they closed the road to Chisos Basin. The storm hit and they lost all power at Chisos Basin (didn't bother us since we were solarized).
Point is, make sure you check the weather forecast when you are at Big Bend, it changes quickly and you don't want to be stranded away from your camper when at Big Bend.

[Connie and John]

We have the same exact setup as you. (F-150 ecoboost and 5.0TA). Towing in Central Idaho mountains is often in snow and slush in winter. As has been mentioned, slow down and allow more distance. I’m always amazed at how well the trailer tracks and how little it feels like we’re towing anything. You have no worries!
We are embarking on our circuitous trip to Big Bend in a couple of days. While we have minimized our time through the snow country, we are likely to encounter snow somewhere, including as early as this Friday when we start from Cedar City towards St George and beyond. Our configuration is F150 (w/4WD optional) pulling E5.0TA.

First, 4WD - From what I have read, 4H is the right setting to use for F150 in snow, but not sure if that remains the preferred setting when towing in snow.

Second, I am thinking that we have a heavy 150 (Hybrid are heavier) with more weight on the rear tires. So, the stability should be good. The trailer tires, however, do not have much weight on them, but the 5th wheel configuration should keep them in line. Is that about right? Any thoughts, advice or experience that might help us?

We have some snow driving experience but it is while driving a car with snow tires. This will be the first time with the truck and camper.

Thanks a lot![/QUOTE]

[kavm]

Originally Posted by Radar1

You mentioned Big Bend. We camped at Chisos Basin in January one year. A winter storm was predicted to pass through in the evening, so we figured we could do a bit of siteseeing at Rio Grande village area, on the East side. We drove to Rio Grande, stopped in at the visitors center, the Ranger happened to be on the phone with the Chisos Basin Ranger.
Turns out, the storm came sooner than expected and they were already getting freezing rain at Chisos Basin and were going to close the road. Fortunately, they provided us enough time to hightail it back so we could get to our camper before they closed the road to Chisos Basin. The storm hit and they lost all power at Chisos Basin (didn't bother us since we were solarized).
Point is, make sure you check the weather forecast when you are at Big Bend, it changes quickly and you don't want to be stranded away from your camper when at Big Bend.

Thank you for that. I have been thinking that we are safe from cold weather that far south!

[kavm]

Originally Posted by Connie and John

We have the same exact setup as you. (F-150 ecoboost and 5.0TA). Towing in Central Idaho mountains is often in snow and slush in winter. As has been mentioned, slow down and allow more distance. I’m always amazed at how well the trailer tracks and how little it feels like we’re towing anything. You have no worries!

Thank you! That is definitely reassuring!

[Telescopist]

Originally Posted by Perry Butler

Growing up and living in central Minnesota for most of my life, plus farming for 23 years, I have tens of thousand of miles pulling trailers/wagons on snow/ice covered roads. Slow down, keep double the normal space in front of you (no tailgating), watch your mirrors, and never hit the brakes. Learn how to use your transmission. Do NOT travel in 2wd in snow and ice! We used to drive in 4wd, but now with AWD on our 2019 F150 AWD is preferred.

For 19 years we lived on I94 in central Minnesota. We'd see pickups and Suburban type vehicles fly by us at 70 or more mph, only to see many of them littering the ditch, or worse yet have an accident, some because they just can't quit tailgating.

Three winters ago we left on January 15 heading east with our 5.0 to Albert Lea, MN where we headed south on 35. At about the Iowa border we ran into glare ice! I just flipped to AWD, slowed to 45 mph, kept my distance, and 2 hours later when we got to Ames, Iowa the glare ice was gone. We continued on good roads in 2WD to Cracker Barrel in Kansas City, Kansas.

Only drive in a manner that you feel comfortable and safe. Once driving our Odyssey (had the optional automatic transmission lock) back from Des Moines to our home in Ashby, MN we ended up getting a motel room in Mason City, IA, because of heavy side winds and icy roads. Even if we had 4WD we still would have gotten a motel room.

Food for thought,

Perry

How true. We left Bismarck around 8am May 18. Final destination: Chilliwack to pick up our 21. Well...I'll let the pictures do the talking. In a matter of 20 minutes the weather and road conditions took a dramatic turn for the worse. Did people slow down? Some of them didn't that's for sure. This trucker in his Class 8 blew by us doing at least 70mph. We were crawling along at around 20 mph. The road surface was icing over.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Telescopist

This trucker in his Class 8 blew by us doing at least 70mph. We were crawling along at around 20 mph. The road surface was icing over.

Karma. Scary thing is though, those that slow down in bad conditions run the risk of being hit by idiots ignoring deteriorating conditions.

Ron