Winter lithium battery removal

[CanTireGuy]

Hi. Picked up new 5.0 this fall. Soon time to winterize. 5.0. Dual lithium batteries. Dual Solar. Dropping off trailer for covered storage from Oct to April. Ottawa so need to pull batteries. I need to keep batteries in until I drop off so I can put trailer legs down. Then I will pull.
Steps to pull batteries:
- Take picture of current setup or spring replacement
- I turn bypass switch to off.
- Do I need to do something about solar prior to unscrewing terminal bolts? If
so, easiest way to do this?
- Unscrew terminal bolts and pull batteries. Take off red positive side first?

Spring install – Reverse the above?

All advice appreciated. I think I have the water system winterizing figured out.

Mike

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by CanTireGuy

Hi. Picked up new 5.0 this fall. Soon time to winterize. 5.0. Dual lithium batteries. Dual Solar. Dropping off trailer for covered storage from Oct to April. Ottawa so need to pull batteries. I need to keep batteries in until I drop off so I can put trailer legs down. Then I will pull.
Steps to pull batteries:
- Take picture of current setup or spring replacement
- I turn bypass switch to off.
- Do I need to do something about solar prior to unscrewing terminal bolts? If
so, easiest way to do this?
- Unscrew terminal bolts and pull batteries. Take off red positive side first?

Spring install – Reverse the above?

All advice appreciated. I think I have the water system winterizing figured out.

Mike

Easiest thing is put your trailer in covered storage.

[splitting_lanes]

You should be fine removing red terminals first, however with solar, I’d recommend covering the red wire terminals with something— as the solar can still generate electricity and you wouldn’t want it to short out against ground.

Make sense?

[Ron in BC]

I thought that the rule was always remove the negative first. If the wrench slips and contacts something metal, no biggie, ground to ground, no arcs and sparks.

If the wrench contacts something grounded while undoing the positive there'll be arcs, sparks and possibly more.

At least that's what I learned as a lad in the air force when learning how to install batteries. As for the consequences blowing a hole in the fuselage

Ron

[CanTireGuy]

Originally Posted by splitting_lanes

You should be fine removing red terminals first, however with solar, I’d recommend covering the red wire terminals with something— as the solar can still generate electricity and you wouldn’t want it to short out against ground.

Make sense?

Good advice. I was planning on brining some electrical tape to cover the removed terminal wires. Thanks.

[Pauly D]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

I thought that the rule was always remove the negative first. If the wrench slips and contacts something metal, no biggie, ground to ground, no arcs and sparks.

If the wrench contacts something grounded while undoing the positive there'll be arcs, sparks and possibly more.

At least that's what I learned as a lad in the air force when learning how to install batteries. As for the consequences blowing a hole in the fuselage

Ron

This is what I was told in grade 12 auto and have always followed and haven't blown anything up yet. A quick google search confirms. When I pull my lithiums today, I'll remove negative first.

[oldwave]

Now is a good time to install a solar panel cutoff switch.
https://shop.explorist.life/shop/all...or-disconnect/

[Jeremy Kessenich]

I also have a 2023 5.0 and I was told by ETI to shut the MPPT controller off in the Victron app for the MPPT controller before disconnecting the batteries. If you do this you do not have to worry about covering the panels. If you aren't sure where in the app to do this I'm sure myself or someone else can post a picture, just let us know.

[CanTireGuy]

Originally Posted by alanmalk

Easiest thing is put your trailer in covered storage.

Originally Posted by Pauly D

This is what I was told in grade 12 auto and have always followed and haven't blown anything up yet. A quick google search confirms. When I pull my lithiums today, I'll remove negative first.

Fair enough. Black first then. Thanks.

[0210]

Originally Posted by splitting_lanes

You should be fine removing red terminals first, however with solar, I’d recommend covering the red wire terminals with something— as the solar can still generate electricity and you wouldn’t want it to short out against ground.

Make sense?

When disconnecting any DC batteries, you remove the negative terminal first. ALWAYS.

In vehicles, the negative terminal is always grounded on the vehicle body. If you remove the positive first, you run the risk of accidentally touching it on a grounded part of your vehicle and causing an instant fire. Been there, done that, 0/10 - do not recommend. This is also why positive terminals are usually covered/insulated, while the negatives are not. In an accident, especially frontal collision, the hood can "fold" and touch the positive terminal; remember that the vehicle body (ie. hood) is grounded, so if that terminal is not insulated, that causes a fire. Thus the red cover/insulation on positive terminals.

Disconnect negative, instantly wrap it in a piece of cloth/towel and set it down to the side, then disconnect positive. When re-connecting, you do the opposite: connect positive first, then connect negative. Same goes when using jumper cables: connect the positives, then connect the negatives.

If there's a battery disconnect switch, it wouldn't hurt to use that before disconnecting the battery.

No need to worry about solar. Nothing special there.

[CanTireGuy]

Originally Posted by 0210

When disconnecting any DC batteries, you remove the negative terminal first. ALWAYS.

In vehicles, the negative terminal is always grounded on the vehicle body. If you remove the positive first, you run the risk of accidentally touching it on a grounded part of your vehicle and causing an instant fire. Been there, done that, 0/10 - do not recommend. This is also why positive terminals are usually covered/insulated, while the negatives are not. In an accident, especially frontal collision, the hood can "fold" and touch the positive terminal; remember that the vehicle body (ie. hood) is grounded, so if that terminal is not insulated, that causes a fire. Thus the red cover/insulation on positive terminals.

Disconnect negative, instantly wrap it in a piece of cloth/towel and set it down to the side, then disconnect positive. When re-connecting, you do the opposite: connect positive first, then connect negative. Same goes when using jumper cables: connect the positives, then connect the negatives.

If there's a battery disconnect switch, it wouldn't hurt to use that before disconnecting the battery.

No need to worry about solar. Nothing special there.

Ok. Googled to confirm. Black is ground and should be removed first. Cover cable end, then remove red. Reverse in spring to hookup. I confirmed I can turn off the solar at the Victron controler via the app. If not turned off at he Victron controller the ends can still have solar power going to them. The "discunnect switch" does not turn off solar.

Thanks community for the info. It's was a case of not knowing what I did not know. I did try searching the Escape Forum but my search mojo did not turn up the info I was looking for.

[splitting_lanes]

I’ll remember black first now. I usually don’t put much thought into it when it’s just 12 volts, but it’s a good thing to do it the correct way!

[SageRpod]

I remember my brother's '65 MG Midget had positive ground or "positive earth" as they say across the pond. Boy that was confusing. Glad my '75 was normal, whatever that means when you talk about a Brit car.

[0210]

Originally Posted by splitting_lanes

I’ll remember black first now. I usually don’t put much thought into it when it’s just 12 volts, but it’s a good thing to do it the correct way!

Good habit to have!

Voltage isn't really the issue; I've been shocked by both 12v and 120v - unpleasant, but not really a big deal at these levels.

The problem is current, even 1amp passing through your body is supposedly enough to be able to kill a person. And you can discharge hundreds of amps of current (briefly) from a typical automotive battery.

The worst mistake I ever made was when I was setting up a dual battery system in my old Tacoma... I finished up all wiring, then decided to re-route a 2ga wire from the battery to the solenoid in order to have a slightly cleaner appearance. I was lazy and didn't remove the negative on the battery, because I'd be "careful." Well, as I was loosening the positive terminal on the battery, my wrench briefly touched a metal bracket that held the solenoid, and the bracket was attached to the metal fender, which was obviously grounded. I somehow avoided being shocked (might have been wearing gloves), but in just that split second of contact I had wiring completely on fire in front of me.

I rushed to the back of the truck, got the fire extinguisher, unloaded into the engine bay. I put out the fire easy enough, but the dust from the fire extinguisher triggered the smoke alarm in the underground parkade where I was parked. Queue the entire building being evacuated at 10:30pm on a Friday night, the fire brigade showing up, and me explaining to strata just what exactly my dumb @$$ was doing. Fun times!

So the lesson learned that night was that you always, always, ALWAYS disconnect the negative terminal before even thinking of doing any electrical work.

[oldwave]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kessenich

I also have a 2023 5.0 and I was told by ETI to shut the MPPT controller off in the Victron app for the MPPT controller before disconnecting the batteries. If you do this you do not have to worry about covering the panels. If you aren't sure where in the app to do this I'm sure myself or someone else can post a picture, just let us know.

While this will keep voltage from reaching the batteries. I still recommend a hard wired cut off before the solar controller. This allows service to the controller if ever needed.

[Vermilye]

While the OP stated the trailer would be stored in covered storage, for those storing trailers outside, before disconnecting or removing batteries, be sure to disconnect or cover the solar panels first. Many solar controllers can be damaged by having solar panels supplying voltage without a battery connected to the output.

[WannaBeEscaped]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

While the OP stated the trailer would be stored in covered storage, for those storing trailers outside, before disconnecting or removing batteries, be sure to disconnect or cover the solar panels first. Many solar controllers can be damaged by having solar panels supplying voltage without a battery connected to the output.

How much cover do they need? Is the white polyester RV cover enough? Or does it require a cardboard or plywood over top? Where would one disconnect the solar panels, the cables on the roof? Thanks.

Duane

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by WannaBeEscaped

How much cover do they need? Is the white polyester RV cover enough? Or does it require a cardboard or plywood over top? Where would one disconnect the solar panels, the cables on the roof? Thanks.

Duane

Your location would imply very little sun on the panels to begin with during the winter. The general purpose RV cover would block the rest. After covering the panels I personally would not worry about disconnecting the solar cables. If you must, then choose a location easy to reach in the spring.

[CE Vogel]

Whether it is necessary to disconnect the solar panels or not when batteries are disconnected depends upon two things: the Open Circuit Voltage of the solar panels, and the Maximum Input Voltage of the charge controller. If the Open Circuit Voltage is less than the Maximum Input Voltage, it is not necessary to disconnect the solar panels.
The Open Circuit Voltage is considerably greater than the Operating Voltage of a solar panel. Sometimes solar charge controllers are installed that are OK with the operating voltage, but not OK with the open circuit voltage. As long as batteries are installed, the Operating Voltage is what the charge controller receives. When the batteries are disconnected and therefore no load on the solar panels, the Open Circuit Voltage is what the charge controller receives.
The solar panel Operating Voltage and Open Circuit Voltage, as well as the charge controller Maximum Input Voltage will all be listed in their specification sheets.

[dunnet]

A quick walk through the shut down would be of great help. I'm just exploring the app. thanks.