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Old 12-03-2018, 07:07 AM   #1
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Georgia 21 Registration

Just a heads up for anyone in Georgia. Check you Order and Completion dates.

I live in DeKalb county and when I went to the title/tag office to register the 21 I'm picking up in next few weeks. The clerk told me that because the Order Date on the Bill of Sale was July I'd have to pay over $1000 in late fees!

I explained and showed to her several different ways that the trailer wasn't even completed yet. Couldn't convince her, or her supervisor, that there's no way a late fee should be applied to an unfinished vehicle. Their excuse was that the program in use only allowed them to use that date. (I call B/S on that)

Went home, contacted the wonderful people at Escape, had them change the date on the Bill of Sale to December, went back to the the tag office and sailed through the process.
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Old 12-03-2018, 07:17 AM   #2
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As an old bureaucrat myself, I learned early on that common sense out trumps stupid rules and with the introduction of electronics the common saying " the computer says" I stop them and ask them to replay that audio. Before computers there were people and they are the ones you want to deal with in the guvmint. That said, a recent visit to the local office revealed to me that today they treat people like numbers, no feelings, just blank stares and the old "that is not allowable"!! No respect for the ones who pay their salaries.
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Old 12-04-2018, 06:42 AM   #3
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A new 21' Escape in Georgia not far from me, exciting! My biggest dilemma when I went to register the 2014' 21' we bought a couple of months ago was when they asked how much I paid for it (that's how they base the amount of tax), was I supposed to be 100% honest? I flubbed a little but not so much I can;t sleep with myself.
As far as government goes I have some friends that make VERY GOOD money working for the feds and their retirement packages are also amazing. It would not bother me as much if they actually had to work for this money, both seem to make a good living doing very little.

We need to have a Georgia Rally at some point. Enjoy your new home on wheels.

Safe travels to all,

Steve
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Old 12-04-2018, 11:53 AM   #4
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I'm in for a Ga rally --and go Atl UNITED!!!
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Old 12-04-2018, 12:24 PM   #5
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Working in a number of situations for 50 years, Iíve experienced indifference, laziness, internal theft and other similar behaviors. I also knew a policeman who was killed in a shootout, a water pollution control man who was electrocuted and several other instances of debilitating injuries. Point being, regardless of the job, thereís every level of performance possible at one time or another. I saw union auto workers sleeping in cardboard boxes, and city workers sleeping in trucks. I worked for a family business where the owner was too lazy to pursue sales opportunities after his dad had worked 6 and 7 days a week building the business. Just like equipment, I donít knock the actions of others and how they make their living. Itís just not me.
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Old 12-04-2018, 02:55 PM   #6
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Maybe we could have a mini rally this spring! I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions once we get the trailer home.
I'm leaving for Chilliwack middle of next week. Orientation is the 19th, I'll hang around the area a few days to make sure everything is working and then I'll be picking my wife up at Sea-Tac the 23rd.
We'll just work our way south then east. The owner of a 21 who lives in Signal Hill told me " go south on 5 until you see a palm tree then turn left", so I'm hoping to be back by the middle of Jan.

Richard
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Old 12-04-2018, 05:15 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by rotorbudd View Post
Maybe we could have a mini rally this spring! I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions once we get the trailer home.
I'm leaving for Chilliwack middle of next week. Orientation is the 19th, I'll hang around the area a few days to make sure everything is working and then I'll be picking my wife up at Sea-Tac the 23rd.
We'll just work our way south then east. The owner of a 21 who lives in Signal Hill told me " go south on 5 until you see a palm tree then turn left", so I'm hoping to be back by the middle of Jan.

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If you head East on I 10, and go through Quartzsite, stop in at the Long Term Visitor Center (LaPosa West) and say hello!
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Old 12-04-2018, 05:43 PM   #8
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Thanks for the offer Jon, but my wife was born in Albuquerque and she's saying we have to go I-40 on the way back.
I'd love to see Quartzsite one winter, maybe next year.
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Old 12-05-2018, 06:37 AM   #9
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Sounds like you have some fun days ahead of you with your shiny new toy !

A rally in the spring sounds like a great idea, problem as you know is getting sites these days unless you plan well in advance. We bought our trailer never seeing the inside of one so hopefully one day soon enough we will get to compare 1st generation and 2nd generation side by side.
My other 1/2 still has to work full time, me sort of decided to work less and camp more starting next year, will be going to Edisto Beach end of this month and then Crooked River State park end of January and hoping to go somewhere almost every month in 2019.

Enjoy the journey and your new home on wheels.

Steve
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Old 03-24-2019, 05:19 PM   #10
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Count us in for an Escape Rally; it will have to be some time in the late fall since ours will not be ready until 7/23/19.
Until then we're enjoying the thrill of new ownership through the others here.
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Old 04-06-2019, 10:54 AM   #11
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Good Info

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Originally Posted by rotorbudd View Post
Just a heads up for anyone in Georgia. Check you Order and Completion dates.

I live in DeKalb county and when I went to the title/tag office to register the 21 I'm picking up in next few weeks. The clerk told me that because the Order Date on the Bill of Sale was July I'd have to pay over $1000 in late fees!

I explained and showed to her several different ways that the trailer wasn't even completed yet. Couldn't convince her, or her supervisor, that there's no way a late fee should be applied to an unfinished vehicle. Their excuse was that the program in use only allowed them to use that date. (I call B/S on that)

Went home, contacted the wonderful people at Escape, had them change the date on the Bill of Sale to December, went back to the the tag office and sailed through the process.

Thanks for the heads-up. I want to get a license plate before picking up our E21 in August. I generally use the East Cobb tag office and will check my paperwork first.


I did have to pay the late penalty for a 2014 Subaru Forester I purchased in Colorado Springs. The paperwork ping-ponged for about 6 weeks on the west coast before I got it. It was FedEx next day air.



My other concern is being asked to pay taxes on the purchase price in Canadian dollars, but that should not happen.
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Old 04-06-2019, 11:03 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by stratos175 View Post
A new 21' Escape in Georgia not far from me, exciting! My biggest dilemma when I went to register the 2014' 21' we bought a couple of months ago was when they asked how much I paid for it (that's how they base the amount of tax), was I supposed to be 100% honest? I flubbed a little but not so much I can;t sleep with myself.
As far as government goes I have some friends that make VERY GOOD money working for the feds and their retirement packages are also amazing. It would not bother me as much if they actually had to work for this money, both seem to make a good living doing very little.

We need to have a Georgia Rally at some point. Enjoy your new home on wheels.

Safe travels to all,

Steve

Hi, Steve, thanks again for our second look-see yesterday. Our build sheet is coming along.


We're up for a local rally this fall. I see Atlanta, Alpharetta, Flowery Branch, Ellijay, and Marietta represented in this thread. All E21s I think. The Bolding Mill COE on Lake Lanier looks close to us all.


We were there last October and really enjoyed it.


Bolding Mill COE - Gainesville, GA - Campground Reviews
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Old 05-06-2019, 01:24 PM   #13
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What documents are required?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rotorbudd View Post
Just a heads up for anyone in Georgia. Check you Order and Completion dates.

I live in DeKalb county and when I went to the title/tag office to register the 21 I'm picking up in next few weeks. The clerk told me that because the Order Date on the Bill of Sale was July I'd have to pay over $1000 in late fees!

I explained and showed to her several different ways that the trailer wasn't even completed yet. Couldn't convince her, or her supervisor, that there's no way a late fee should be applied to an unfinished vehicle. Their excuse was that the program in use only allowed them to use that date. (I call B/S on that)

Went home, contacted the wonderful people at Escape, had them change the date on the Bill of Sale to December, went back to the the tag office and sailed through the process.
I can see this now - the Bill Of Sale had two dates - one far in the past (October 2018 when it was ordered) and one a month in the future (the completion date). I can almost sympathize with the DMV clerk - they need a form with a date that they can enter into the computer (and the computer is no doubt programmed to spit out future dates).

Just curious as to what other documents you needed to complete the GA registration. I have filled out a Form MV-1 (DOR Motor Vehicle Title/Tag Application) with the VIN number provided by Escape.

https://dor.georgia.gov/sites/dor.ge...Form_MV1_0.pdf

The GA DMV website implies that I also need a form T-22B which verifies the VIN number after a Georgia Law Enforcement Officer has inspected the vehicle (obviously something hard to do, while it presently is just a frame in Canada).

https://dor.georgia.gov/sites/dor.ge...orm_T22B_0.pdf

The instructions on the website are not clear (DMV - go figure) and when you click on the link for "how to register a trailer" it goes on and on about homebuilt trailers (this is, after all, Georgia). Did you have to provide a Form T-22B? Or is the Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin sufficient evidence of the VIN number?

It seems the requirements depend on which clerk you get. When I first moved to Georgia, many years ago, one clerk wanted to see the actual vehicle (and I was registering three - I can only drive one at a time) in the parking lot, or have a form T-22B or its equivalent filled out. Other clerks were less concerned and just asked if the car was here or not.

Georgia got rid of the annual personal property tax, in favor of a flat 7% title fee (tax) that is a one-time deal. So what you report as a purchase price is what is you pay taxes on. The "Bill of Sale" lists the price in Canadian dollars. I am looking forward to explaining THAT to the clerk at the DMV!

Me: "You see, it actually cost just $30,000 US, not $42,000"

Clerk: "Uh-huh...where does it say that on the form?"

Besides the Certificate of Origin and the Bill of Sale, what documents did you need? The customs docs? Were you able to Title AND Tag the trailer before you went to pick it up? I am hoping to re-use my old tag from the Casita (sold yesterday).

Any help or suggestions you can provide would be appreciated.
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Old 05-06-2019, 03:43 PM   #14
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I e-mailed Escape and they said they could not re-date the bill of sale! They said the "sale date" should appear on the Certificate of Origin, which is June 25th. Ouch. So I guess I have to wait until June 25th to get the title and tags (we are leaving for Vancouver shortly thereafter). I hope it goes smoothly, as it leaves me with little recourse if not.

It is not the DMV (Actually the tax office) clerk's fault - they have to enter data in the computer and they aren't allowed to just change dates on documents - without losing their job. If they enter October 18th, 2018, the order date, the computer spits out that a fine is due. If they enter June 25th 2019, it will say "invalid date" as it is in the future.

See:

https://www.athensclarkecounty.com/1...Fees-Penalties

Title Fees & Penalties
Application

An owner should apply promptly for Certificate of Title upon transfer of ownership. The fee for a standard title application is $18 plus the Title Ad Valorem Tax (TAVT). Failure to apply for a title within 30 days of the date of purchase / transfer will result in a penalty of 10% of the fair market value of the vehicle. There is also a $10.00 alteration penalty assessed if the date of purchase has been altered in any way.

10% would be $3,000 not $1000.

Help me out here, Escape!

Who did you talk to at Escape to re-date the bill of sale? They claim such a thing cannot be done.
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Old 05-06-2019, 03:49 PM   #15
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I found another site that says the penalty is $10 (!!!):


https://dor.georgia.gov/motor-vehicl...-and-penalties


Penalties Amount Comments
Title Penalty for failure to apply for Georgia Title within 30 days of the vehicle’s purchase or transfer date

$10.00


Title Penalty for changed or altered purchase or transfer date on the back of the title or document transferring ownership

$10.00


Title Penalty for failure to respond within 60 days of the date of a letter asking for additional information

$10.00

If previously applied for and additional action was required

Title Penalty for failure to apply for title within 30 days of purchase or transfer of ownership for title issued to a State or Federal Agency

No charge


Failure to renew vehicle’s Georgia License Plate Registration during your county’s established registration period

10% of Ad Valorem Tax due + 25% of License Plate Fees

Ad valorem Penalty has a $5.00 minimum

Dealer Title Ad Valorem Tax penalty for not submitting TAVT within 30 days of purchase

5% of TAVT due after day 30 and 5% additional every month thereafter

Contact your local County Tag Office for details

Casual sale Title Ad Valorem Tax penalty for not submitting TAVT within 30 days of purchase

10% of TAVT after day 30 and 1% additional every month thereafter

Contact your local County Tag Office for details
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Old 05-06-2019, 03:56 PM   #16
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I found more information online. The T-22B form is only needed if transferring title from a non-title State (such as trailers in some States, or vehicles older than X years in others).

So that answers that question. I don't need a T-22B form.

I also checked the CERTIFICATE OF ORIGIN and it is dated May 7th, 2019, so maybe that will work. I'll give it a try tomorrow. I tried calling the tax office but..... no answer.

https://dor.georgia.gov/register-and...chased-vehicle

Register and Title a Newly Purchased Vehicle
Title Applications and License Plate Registrations should be completed at your County Tag Office. The following information is required:

Valid Georgia’s driver’s license or ID card
Proof of Ownership
Vehicle’s original valid title
All buyer/seller information completed
Title must be assigned to you using your full legal name as it appears on your driver’s license
Provide Bill of Sale if the vehicle is 1985 or older and does not require a title
If title is not available, a Manufacturer’s Certificate of Origin (MSO) or a registration certification from non-title state/county. Must be assigned to you using your full legal name.
If transferred from a non-title state/country, provide a properly completed Form T-22B Certification of Inspection
Form MV-1 Title/Tag Application (this form can be printed at home or by the County Tag Office and will require your signature)
Proof of insurance, by one of the following:
Filed by your insurance company directly in the Department’s database
Insurance Binder showing insurance liability coverage
Registration can also be completed by mail to your County Tag Office.

Note: If the manufacturer’s certificate of origin is assigned to a dealer who is licensed to sell only used vehicles, the dealer must obtain a title in their name before transferring ownership. When the customer applies for a Georgia title, the issued title will reflect the vehicle’s status as “used.” This does not apply to certificates of origin assigned to a franchise or new motor vehicle dealership that has the manufacturers franchise agreement.

So maybe it isn't as scary as it sounds. I am not sure why different counties have different penalties listed. 10% of FMV? That seems excessive as a fine! Maybe that is just in one county.
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Old 05-06-2019, 05:26 PM   #17
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Since you have written proof, I would not care what the computer "says" the law is printed and plain to see and they should abide by that. Ask them if you take them to court, what proof can they provide you are wrong, other than what the computer "says". Computers can not talk nor can they testify. Bureaucracy at it's best.....
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Old 05-06-2019, 06:48 PM   #18
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Nice in Theory

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Since you have written proof, I would not care what the computer "says" the law is printed and plain to see and they should abide by that. Ask them if you take them to court, what proof can they provide you are wrong, other than what the computer "says". Computers can not talk nor can they testify. Bureaucracy at it's best.....
That's nice in theory, but hard in practice.

I used to live in Alexandria, VA. Right after 9/11 they started getting a little hinky about identification needed to get a driver's license.

I was in line at the DMV and the guy ahead of me was screaming at the poor clerk. She handed out clipboards to people with the correct forms for what they wanted to do - get a license, register a car, etc. She also handed out numbered tickets and you sat down and waited for your number to be called. When it all worked out, you would just finish filling out the form by the time they called your number.

To save time, she made sure, before you were given a number, that you had all necessary documentation needed - otherwise you'd wait and wait and then find out you have to go home and get some piece of paper.

Anyway, the guy ahead of me was melting down because he needed three forms of primary ID to get his driver's license, and he left two of them (birth certificate, passport) at home.

Problem was, there was no way anyone in the building could issue him a driver's license. The machines would not allow it. The LAW would not allow it.

The line was getting longer and longer as this guy screamed bloody murder. Finally, I tapped him on the shoulder.

"WHAT!" he turned around and screamed at me.

"I just wanted to point out that five of the 9/11 hijackers were standing right where you are now, when they applied for their fraudulent IDs. The lady you are screaming at isn't authorized to make an exception for you, nor would she be inclined to do so. No one in this building can. Instead of making a scene, why not drive back to your town house in Foreclosure Mews Estates and get the necessary documents and let the rest of us get on with our lives?"

He huffed and puffed and then saw the security guard walking over, and decided to leave.

I have found it a lot easier just to figure out what these folks want to make the system work. If it means getting a cat license by crossing out the word "DOG" and writing in "Cat" in crayon, so be it. If you are nice to them, get your ducks in a row, it is smooth sailing.



Georgia went to this three primary ID thing a few years back when I renewed my license. Rather than fight it, I sent away for a social security card, and brought my passport and birth certificate and previous license and..... no problem. In and out in 15 minutes.

Other people were, well, melting down. The local DMV even provided a computer so you could order your Social Security card online! I mean, it wasn't like they were trying to be dicks about it. They even sent a letter before renewal warning people about this.

It is a lot easier to figure out how the system works, what forms they are looking for, what numbers fit in their system, than try to play lawyer and fight the system (and lose badly).

The goal is to get in and out with as little friction as possible. That's how you "win" at the DMV.

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Old 05-06-2019, 07:29 PM   #19
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I was once a bureaucrat, or rather I worked for a bureaucracy. There were so many rules and regulations that if you followed all of them you could not perform your job. Similar to when police start enforcing every law there is, nothing moves. My point is I learned shortcuts to get around these stupid procedures and managed to close cases while others struggled. My supervisor started giving me other peoples cases to close because the government runs off statistics and we spend close to 20% of our time filling out forms that justify our other 80% of time. Same was done in the military, every Friday was report day, we stopped working and filled our reports.
Anyway I started closing cases quicker and my boss would say, "I do not care how you do it, but please continue" as it made him look good as well to his boss. Well one day my shortcut was found, in order to close a case you had to establish it on the computer system, once it is on the system then you can close it. Well it seems someone else had the job of inputting my data to establish it and it may take them 2-3 weeks. Once established, I could then close the case. Well knowing how inefficient the government was I timed my closing so that it took 3 weeks and when it crossed that persons desk it was on the system and the case closed. One day that person was sick and my case tried to close and it was not on the system. How did I manage all the other times, luck, pure luck, and I got the name in the office, "Mr. Shortcut" for the longest time. They then changed procedures that incorporated my way and things ran smoother after that and I got a nice award. end of story. My point being someone needs to address the burden certain procedures place on the public.
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Old 05-06-2019, 09:34 PM   #20
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I was once a bureaucrat, or rather I worked for a bureaucracy. There were so many rules and regulations that if you followed all of them you could not perform your job. Similar to when police start enforcing every law there is, nothing moves. My point is I learned shortcuts to get around these stupid procedures and managed to close cases while others struggled. My supervisor started giving me other peoples cases to close because the government runs off statistics and we spend close to 20% of our time filling out forms that justify our other 80% of time. Same was done in the military, every Friday was report day, we stopped working and filled our reports.
Anyway I started closing cases quicker and my boss would say, "I do not care how you do it, but please continue" as it made him look good as well to his boss. Well one day my shortcut was found, in order to close a case you had to establish it on the computer system, once it is on the system then you can close it. Well it seems someone else had the job of inputting my data to establish it and it may take them 2-3 weeks. Once established, I could then close the case. Well knowing how inefficient the government was I timed my closing so that it took 3 weeks and when it crossed that persons desk it was on the system and the case closed. One day that person was sick and my case tried to close and it was not on the system. How did I manage all the other times, luck, pure luck, and I got the name in the office, "Mr. Shortcut" for the longest time. They then changed procedures that incorporated my way and things ran smoother after that and I got a nice award. end of story. My point being someone needs to address the burden certain procedures place on the public.
That's why I try to play nice and ask them, "what do you need from me to make this work?" rather than demanding they do things my way. Often, what is needed is just some silly piece of paper to satisfy bureaucrats. And often these pieces of paper are the result or major Fubars in the past.

For example, issuing driver's licenses to terrorists based on sketchy credentials. They pretty much have closed the door on that one!

I'm not asking them for much. I just want to title and tag a trailer that doesn't exist yet, other than a frame and a VIN plate, that is in a foreign country, that I haven't even fully paid for yet. That I won't even see for three more months.

Nothing sketchy going on here. Nosireee!

I want this to go smoothly. Hopefully it will! The bill of sale nightmare that started this thread had me worried. Still does. We'll see how it plays out, tomorrow.
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