Escape Customer Service Problem cost us over $300 :/

[SouthernCamper]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

Your original window has the part number on a paper tag along the edge - visible once you remove the window. Yes, that's a lot of screws to remove just to be able to get the part number for the correct window to order but that's the only way you can be sure to get the correct replacement. Hint - after getting them, write down the part numbers and store them with your trailer info!

Lippert bought Hehr but should be able to supply a replacement window that matches the one you have. Contact Lippert and give them the part number that is on your Hehr window so they can do the proper cross reference to the Lippert window that will fit.

I had to replace a Hehr window with a Lippert before - by supplying the Hehr part number directly to Lippert, they sent me a window that fit.

I wouldn't rely on Escape to supply vendor information anymore. All your vendor supplied parts to the trailer have part numbers - supplying them to the vendors will insure that the replacements match what you have.

Sorry you had to go through this - it's a pain when you get the wrong stuff shipped. Just chalk it up to experience and never trust Escape to send the right part numbers again.

good advice all around! thanks!

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by SouthernCamper

i unfortunately cannot return the window. Lippert specifically requires that you call the manufacturer for a part number before ordering. so when i called about returns they directed me to Escape as liable for the mistaken part number and they would not accept the return.

So Lippert blames Escape, Escape blames poor record keeping, and you are the one that is stuck with the wrong part with no way to return it.

I would be upset too! This sounds like a classic case of caveat emp​tor.

[SouthernCamper]

Originally Posted by mk10

And if they didn't and you received the wrong part, what would happen?

I don't know about you, but most people would just call and have them send the correct part.

Yes we'll have to do this, at our over $300 loss. returns are not accepted at Lippert because they specifically had us reach out to Escape for the part number so they point liability back to Escape and won't accept a return.

Did you think I was complaining only about the inconvenience of having to order a part and exchange it? No. Escape gave me the wrong part, acknowledged why they did, and told us how to rebuild the camper to make it fit. Just no. Could I have looked up the part myself? Apparently I could've removed the window and looked but I trusted Escape to have the correct info. In the future when possible I'll confirm on my own. But please don't characterize this as me wasting all of our time coming here to complain for a minor inconvenience.

Before ever hearing about Escape I gained respect for companies when they provided good customer service by doing things like sticking their neck out and buying a fitting window when they gave the incorrect number, and chose to look elsewhere when possible when I saw companies that acted as Escape has. It's my personal preference to respect and support companies that provide good customer service. I'm not saying there's a better RV company out there, but I have new concerns over Escape's now.

[SouthernCamper]

Thanks everyone for your input. I apologize for disappearing! I only got notified of the first response and thought the post didn't generate any interest lol

Thanks for everyone who's shared their experiences with the new ownership publicly and privately, and those who have talked about our situation with me. We still may buy another Escape in the future, but while I had zero concerns before I do have some now. We're not dying over $300, but customer service is important to me and I feel let down. We've got this big honkin window we've got to throw out and I hate the waste.

On another note: anyone have ideas on how we can reseal our fogged double pane window to avoid ordering ANOTHER replacement? Can a window shop do this?

[Ooshkaboo]

Quote from Socrates-tires and blank, guaranteed to give you headaches…

[Bobbie54]

Originally Posted by Sean2a

Is there is way to return the window then? Even if a restocking fee is charged this would seem like the best realistic option. Otherwise, you could try to sell it on the third party market to recoup at least a chunk of the cost. I know this doesnt resolve your issue with ETI's customer service.

I agree with others that they should be making s note somewhere of what brand and model number window was installed. If they did, but the information was no longer relevant due to new ownership crossing their wires than I cant see this as ETI's fault, although good customer service includes a healthy dose if sympathy and apologies for your troubles and good wishes in resolving the issue with the window company.

If they didn't know the answer they should not have given out a model number.

[Dave Walter]

If you go into your dealings with Escape having zero expectations regarding being satisfied with their level or quality of customer service, you will never be disappointed in the outcome.

Escape should probably have given you the make and model of window with the caveat that you should check the information yourself to confirm that it is correct. Unfortunately it is too late for you to check prior to purchasing so you are kind of stuck with an extra window. I would post it on some of the RV sites to see if you can unload it without suffering too much of a loss, and treat this as a learning experience.

[Viajante]

Originally Posted by SouthernCamper

On another note: anyone have ideas on how we can reseal our fogged double pane window to avoid ordering ANOTHER replacement? Can a window shop do this?

Take a little camping trip to RVFogDr in Searcy Arkansas. They do an excellent job of removing, separating, cleaning, resealing, and installing a double pane rv window.

[Bakes99]

Originally Posted by mk10

And if they didn't and you received the wrong part, what would happen?

I don't know about you, but most people would just call and have them send the correct part.

I don't think he was calling for the incorrect part.

Well I guess I would send it back. If they weren't sure what to send, I'm assuming the party would clarify with the customer what year and model they have instead of taking a random guess.

What a useless debate. Mate, we just live in different worlds.

[gbaglo]

I don't think ETI changes suppliers on Jan. 1 or the date that the trailer year changes. There could be two trailers in the line and one will get the last window with a certain part number and the next would get a window with a different part number.

How many on this forum know the best before date for their milk?

[Mike G]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I don't think ETI changes suppliers on Jan. 1 or the date that the trailer year changes. There could be two trailers in the line and one will get the last window with a certain part number and the next would get a window with a different part number.

How many on this forum know the best before date for their milk?

That's easy, it's the 26th. I remember.

[DT6]

Originally Posted by SouthernCamper

thanks for telling me about your situation! i understand that there are certain "growing pains" but nobody wants to be told "i'm sorry but we're too busy to keep our word." :/

so help me understand, you had both warranty issues that they failed to document and also issues with construction of the new one? is undercarriage spray no longer an option and that's why they won't do it? i'd love to understand more about this problem with the new order as we were planning on ordering a new one prior to this concern over maybe wanting to keep an eye first on how things go with new ownership.

The issue was drawer slides in the two drawers below the closet (we added one as an option), and one of the two bracing brackets for the front window rock cover. For the rock guard (window), I eventually figured it out myself but only because Lippert was not very helpful and dragged their feet on repair. Turned out to be simple, but did not seem like it at the time.

What really bothered me was that I had several direct discussion over the phone with Dustin in parts regarding the drawer slides and he told me that he "had written my issue down in the notes regarding the drawer pull slides" and that "yes we can fix that here since you reported it while under warranty". At the time Canada was closed due to COVID and we could not travel there. As soon as travel restrictions were lifted, I called Dustin who said "We cannot cover that under warranty as the warranty has expired".

So I called his boss and said, "Dustin has notes on this, he told me so on two separate occasions when I called previously to report it". His boss replied "I checked and there are no notes. We won't cover it. Besides it's only $10 worth of parts that you could do yourself. We are a manufacturing facility "sir" not a repair facility". So I had to get this taken care of elsewhere.

Regarding the insulation - when we purchased the trailer we were told we could bring it back to the factory to have that installed later since we were unsure of the necessity at the time of purchase. During my call (shortly after travel restrictions were removed) I inquired about adding the spray insulation and was told "we are no longer doing after delivery installation of trailer options." I was kind of shocked and asked "why was no notice given or a grace period for people who were promised this?". I did not get much of an answer. I emailed Karl about this directly, and here is his response:

Hi,
Thank you for your email re after market installations at Escape. We still support for warranty but find ourselves in the position where we do not have the resources to act as an aftermarket installer. Fortunately the Escape is relatively easy to work on and most RV repair shops can complete the same installations as us. I appreciate this is not ideal, and not what we have done in the past.
We found ourselves between a rock and hard place, and the decision is to support Warranty and stop aftermarket installs. We have also stopped telling customers that Escape would complete the aftermarket installation work to avoid any future disappointments.
Warm regards,
Karl

I really like the last line, which I will re-write so that what really happened is documented correctly:

Instead of "We have also stopped telling customers that Escape would complete the aftermarket installation work to avoid any future disappointments." It should say "we apologize for disappointing you and breaking promises that were made under the previous ownership, even though it says "Escape Trailer Industries" on the sign, we are a different company and as such are no longer bound by previous commitments, nor do we feel it is necessary to notify current owners and offer a grace or sunset period on the previous promise which was not made by me."

I spend the last 10 years of my career as a senior civilian with the Department of the Navy and I can tell you that the situation described above is something we were taught in leadership classes to NOT do. Whenever I took over a new function I was always bound by the decisions of my predecessor until I had time to renegotiate a specific policy or commitment. While I could have gone unilateral and done a "Karl", it would have been frowned upon by my peers and supervisors and unless it was a case of causing harm to national security, I had to simply eat it until I could come to a new agreement on whatever policy or commitment I had an issue with.

Also, let's be clear that the only "warranty" work they do at Escape is for the trailer body that they make. Everything else that is put on the trailer has to be taken somewhere else for warranty repair. How often do they have to actually do a warranty repair they are responsible for? My guess is that defects in fiberglass production are going to make themselves evident during the manufacturing process the vast majority of times, so the number of trailer body repairs is probably almost zero.

Despite that, we are planning to purchase a 21C that we expect to take delivery of in December. We travel to Escape next week to make option selections, and you better believe I'm going to record the whole visit.

[Kingfish]

Originally Posted by DT6

His boss replied "I checked and there are no notes. We won't cover it. Besides it's only $10 worth of parts that you could do yourself. We are a manufacturing facility "sir" not a repair facility". So I had to get this taken care of elsewhere.

That's the typical attitude of a company riding the wave. Wait'll things get tough (think 2008) and it will change entirely.

[Allan Bornestig]

DT6.
Hi there.
I installed my own foam slabs two inches thick under my 21.It was in the middle of July three years ago.I was 80 years old at the time.Yeah, it took some time, but it is still holding.A lot cheaper then the spray foam too.There are several owners here on the forum that has gone that route.Good luck with your 21 footer.We love ours, just finished the cleanup before the Osoyoos trip.
Take care.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by SouthernCamper

we are the original owners. it went like this "hi escape, our window of our 2018 trailer is fogged, what should we do?" "you should call Lippert for a replacement, here's the phone number." "hi again escape, Lippert says I need a specific part number for our replacement window for our 2018 E21 foot." "here's the exact part number you need."

The problem appears to be that the ETI staff provided information for one of the windows which they used, possibly even for specifically a 2018 E21, but not the one used in this specific trailer (because there are window options). That would be ETI's error, and a failure in either record keeping or looking up the information.

Originally Posted by SouthernCamper

I completely accept my responsibility that I should've checked the brand myself...

I don't think that the brand is the issue, despite the alarm at seeing a different label, because the Hehr brand no longer exists and the direct replacements are branded by Lippert. The problem is the style of window (presumably the top-hinged "frameless" style versus the sliding style).

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Bakes99

You better believe, if I call Toyota with my year and model number, they’d better send me the correct part, number or not. Cripes, is it too much to ask that the company knows their product? Wouldn’t they know to ask the customer for some basic info? I’ve had two stick builts and have received pretty prompt service from both vendors. I’ve also had decent service from Escape. No better, no worse. It’s like stick built is an f-word around here.

if your car is over 10 years old, good luck getting more obscure parts from the factory.

[Brian B-P]

A while ago in this thread there were a few comments about ETI employees not owning Escape trailers. I'm not at all surprised; that applies to any company. People don't work for a company because they are fans of the product; they work to earn income. They might not have an interest in owning any travel trailer, they might not be able to afford a tow vehicle and trailer, they might not be able to afford an Escape, and they might prefer a different size or style of trailer even if they think that Escapes are wonderful. Don't read too much into it.

I knew a guy who had a relative who worked for Ford, and everyone in the family drove Fords... because once a year that guy could buy any Ford model at a substantial employee discount, and he used that get a deal for one relative a year. The brand that they purchased had nothing to do with the desirability of the product at all.

On the other hand, many years ago when the United Auto Worker employees of the GM assembly plant in Freemont CA were bitterly complaining that Americans should buy U.S.-built vehicles to save their jobs, someone surveyed the employee parking lot: the fraction of imported cars there was higher than the U.S. average, because those employees didn't actually have any preference for the products that they built when spending their own money. The plant failed, was dumped by GM, and now builds Tesla cars. Employment is a financial arrangement, not a lifestyle commitment.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

if your car is over 10 years old, good luck getting more obscure parts from the factory.

Normally they can tell you precisely what part you need... and that it is no longer available. Information and product availability are two almost unrelated things.

[Ooshkaboo]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

A while ago in this thread there were a few comments about ETI employees not owning Escape trailers. I'm not at all surprised; that applies to any company. People don't work for a company because they are fans of the product; they work to earn income. They might not have an interest in owning any travel trailer, they might not be able to afford a tow vehicle and trailer, they might not be able to afford an Escape, and they might prefer a different size or style of trailer even if they think that Escapes are wonderful. Don't read too much into it.

I knew a guy who had a relative who worked for Ford, and everyone in the family drove Fords... because once a year that guy could buy any Ford model at a substantial employee discount, and he used that get a deal for one relative a year. The brand that they purchased had nothing to do with the desirability of the product at all.

On the other hand, many years ago when the United Auto Worker employees of the GM assembly plant in Freemont CA were bitterly complaining that Americans should buy U.S.-built vehicles to save their jobs, someone surveyed the employee parking lot: the fraction of imported cars there was higher than the U.S. average, because those employees didn't actually have any preference for the products that they built when spending their own money. The plant failed, was dumped by GM, and now builds Tesla cars. Employment is a financial arrangement, not a lifestyle commitment.

Like most businesses I’m sure there is an employee discount for those who would desire to own a Escape product. Owning and operating a RV much less an Escape is something many people aren’t able to afford. Now with the price of gas, many changes will come…

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

A while ago in this thread there were a few comments about ETI employees not owning Escape trailers. I'm not at all surprised; that applies to any company. People don't work for a company because they are fans of the product; they work to earn income. They might not have an interest in owning any travel trailer, they might not be able to afford a tow vehicle and trailer, they might not be able to afford an Escape, and they might prefer a different size or style of trailer even if they think that Escapes are wonderful. Don't read too much into it.

I knew a guy who had a relative who worked for Ford, and everyone in the family drove Fords... because once a year that guy could buy any Ford model at a substantial employee discount, and he used that get a deal for one relative a year. The brand that they purchased had nothing to do with the desirability of the product at all.

On the other hand, many years ago when the United Auto Worker employees of the GM assembly plant in Freemont CA were bitterly complaining that Americans should buy U.S.-built vehicles to save their jobs, someone surveyed the employee parking lot: the fraction of imported cars there was higher than the U.S. average, because those employees didn't actually have any preference for the products that they built when spending their own money. The plant failed, was dumped by GM, and now builds Tesla cars. Employment is a financial arrangement, not a lifestyle commitment.

fun fact, that plant was where my '08 Toyota Tacoma was built, it was actually NUMMI, New United Motor Manufacturing, which was a joint venture of Toyota and GM until GM pulled out (it was GM that was failing, not the plant, GM simply couldn't sell the small import-style cars built there, and was undergoing bankruptcy and shedding brands including Pontiac, who's Vibe was a reskinned Toyota Corolla) and left it to Toyota, who later moved their domestic production to the cheap labor deep south.

re; workers not buying the products they make, there is an old expression... "The Shoemaker always wears the worst shoes" ...