Tesla truck to revolutionize RV towing?

[gbaglo]

When you log in, check the box that says "Remember me". I've not been logged off since 2008, unless I did it myself, and I don't.
Again great posts.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by bpjod redux

Elon is a physicist and designs vehicles from that perspective. Flush door handles are all about aerodynamics.

Sadly, Elon is now a marketer and approves, or even insists on, design features that people who actually know what they're doing advise against.

Originally Posted by bpjod redux

The box sides serve two purposes so they won't go away. The first is structural, without them the truck would fold in half. Secondly is to support the tonneau cover so that the when closed the Cybertruck is a very aerodynamic shape unlike a conventional truck.

Funny, the other unibody pickups (such as the Honda Ridgeline, but there are dozens of others) don't fold up. Sure, a backyard hobbyist would use this shape, but Tesla doesn't need to, structurally. I'm sure the shape is for the tonneau and for the goofy "Bladerunner" style, which is probably not very good aerodynamically (in contrast to Tesla's cars, which are quite good).

The convertible top seems like a good idea to someone without an appreciation for the history of utility vehicles. GM tried a retractable roof (with the midgate also used on the Chevrolet Avalanche and Hummer H2) on the Envoy XUV, and it flopped. But who knows... third time lucky?

Originally Posted by bpjod redux

One major downside of the box sides is the inability to hook up a 5th wheel. Many are over 14,000 lbs so they couldn't use the Cybertruck anyway. For those that are, such as the Escape 5.0 TA, unfortunately that combination just won't work. Pick a different tow vehicle or choose the Escape 21.

The Escape 5.0TA is part of a market segment which is so small that I wouldn't fault any manufacturer for not accommodating fifth-wheel trailers in a light-duty pickup.

[StanLewis]

It's been apparent for a few years now that the main impediment to wide-spread adoption of EV's is the availability (or lack thereof) of fast charging infrastructure. It's a classic chicken or egg problem: what comes first? That is in the process of sorting itself out, and EV's are clearly viable now for most daily driver/around town applications (we are pretty likely to buy one when our current town vehicle gets replaced). But I won't consider an electric tow vehicle until fast charging availability is more or less on par with (current) diesel availability. At my age, that may or may not happen before someone has to take away my truck keys.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by StanLewis

It's been apparent for a few years now that the main impediment to wide-spread adoption of EV's is the availability (or lack thereof) of fast charging infrastructure. It's a classic chicken or egg problem: what comes first?

That's certainly a challenge. A few years ago driving between Edmonton and Vancouver would take several days in an EV, spent mostly Level 1 charging at whatever outlets could be found. Now there are charging stations, but the ones I drove by on the Yellowhead in B.C. were all empty - the infrastructure is there on major routes, and not being used.

At this point for many people a sensible choice is to have two vehicles - one for local use (which can easily be an EV) and one for long trips (suitable for towing in our case). Many families have more than one vehicle anyway, often of quite different types (body style, size, powertrain...). The issue relevant to the Tesla CyberTruck and other EV pickups is that long trips and towing are not the preferred applications for an electric vehicle.

[Greg A]

Great real-life EV writeup bpjod. This is consistent information to what our friends and acquaintances that own EV’s report.
Myself or anyone else can’t be an expert just reading what’s out there, you need real-life, hands on feedback like you gave us, to make informed opinions. I totally agree with you to not go look and test drive these cause ur going to want one.
I can’t wait to get production PU’s in play where we can get real life reports like this. Until then, we’re just guessing. I personally don’t believe the towing range is going to be that greatly affected because the PU’s like the freight trucks are going to be a different beast then the current crop of passenger vehicles. Until we have some production pickups out there towing, the range issue is just conjecture.
The Ford F-150 is probably much closer to market than the Tesla Cybertruck, and I have a feeling it is going to be quite impressive. Ford is also committing to an entire line of EVs by 2022 and like Tesla is launching a nationwide charging network to go with it.
What fun is ahead!

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

The point of a time-of-use price differential is to encourage people to do as Jim did, and change their behaviour to smooth out the power demand. If that works, then there is less of a problem and less reason for a differential. Maybe the system just worked?

It worked until it didn't. With an 80% price differential it was worth it to pay $10 extra per month for the meter and adjust one's behavior in using electricity. When it was whittled down to a 20% difference then it might not be, for a new user contemplating having the smart meter installed.

It was no big deal to me to put a timer on my electric water heater and do laundry on the weekends, something I did anyway. But a family with more complex demands might be put off by the meager savings reflected in the later electric rates. When I signed up for the time-of-use meter I told my boss about it. He said, "I have teenagers. Forget it."

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

It worked until it didn't. With an 80% price differential it was worth it to pay $10 extra per month for the meter and adjust one's behavior in using electricity. When it was whittled down to a 20% difference then it might not be, for a new user contemplating having the smart meter installed.

It was no big deal to me to put a timer on my electric water heater and do laundry on the weekends, something I did anyway. But a family with more complex demands might be put off by the meager savings reflected in the later electric rates. When I signed up for the time-of-use meter I told my boss about it. He said, "I have teenagers. Forget it."

There is certainly a balance. If the time-of-day rate structure changes behaviour, so that there is less difference between on-peak and off-peak, then the rate structure changes, the behaviour can revert. The system needs to find the balance where the difference is enough to keep the behaviour desirable. Whatever the details, I think people should get accustomed to the idea of a more complex management of electrical energy consumption, with time-of-day rates and control of when discretionary loads such as EV charging are used. The "smart meter" will eventually not be optional in many or perhaps all locations.

[John in Santa Cruz]

aroudn here, at least, the time of day differential is far higher in the summer than in the winter.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Greg A

I totally agree with you to not go look and test drive these cause ur going to want one.

If you have already decided that's what you want, sure.

The last time I bought a car, I test-drove two at the same dealership on the same day. They were the same model, with the same engine and transmission, but one was new and the other was a low-mileage used car of the previous generation, which is very similar mechanically and in body design. The sales rep said "if you drive the new one you'll buy it"; I drove both and I bought the used one. It wasn't just the price difference - I don't want the goofy screen-based "infotainment" system that the sales people all think is so wonderful and the reason to buy a car, and I don't want the less functional hatch of the newer all-about-appearance style.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Greg A

I personally don’t believe the towing range is going to be that greatly affected because the PU’s like the freight trucks are going to be a different beast then the current crop of passenger vehicles. Until we have some production pickups out there towing, the range issue is just conjecture.

I disagree.

People with heavy pickups find that their fuel economy is not as severely affected by trailer as with a smaller tow vehicle, but much of that is their engines are running inefficiently at the low power level required to run empty. This is not nearly as significant effect with an electric vehicle, and Tesla Model X owners have demonstrated that despite having very powerful and heavy vehicles, a trailer hammers their range... exactly as expected based on energy requirements of the two configurations.

Highway tractors have just as much drag with an empty trailer as with a full trailer, and probably more drag with no trailer at all, and they operate most of the time at relatively steady highway speed, so they're not highly sensitive to adding trailer mass. A tall travel trailer behind any vehicle - electric or not - is a much worse addition.

Of course, if Tesla actually builds the CyberTruck with that plywood-prism aero design, it might be so bad running empty that the extra drag due to a trailer doesn't seem so bad in comparison.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Greg A

Ford is also committing to an entire line of EVs by 2022 and like Tesla is launching a nationwide charging network to go with it.

Almost every major manufacturer is saying they will have a full line of EVs. Ford is behind the several companies that already sell battery-electric vehicles, but ahead of others; they have sold hybrids for a long time, and even plug-in hybrids for years, so they're as familiar with the technology as anyone.

Ford isn't making network of charging stations restricted to their cars (like Tesla's Superchargers), and they're not building it. What they're doing is partnering with other companies so that the stations of those other companies' networks work with a "FordPass" payment system. GM is doing something similar (with Bechtel), and VW has Electrify America and Electrify Canada; I don't know if the GM and VW schemes include a dedicated payment system, but I also don't know why a consumer would want one. I suppose cars will likely be sold with a package of some amount of energy from charging stations, which will only be accessible using the extra account and will be a terrible deal for people who don't need that charging.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

It worked until it didn't. With an 80% price differential it was worth it to pay $10 extra per month for the meter and adjust one's behavior in using electricity. When it was whittled down to a 20% difference then it might not be, for a new user contemplating having the smart meter installed.

It was no big deal to me to put a timer on my electric water heater and do laundry on the weekends, something I did anyway. But a family with more complex demands might be put off by the meager savings reflected in the later electric rates. When I signed up for the time-of-use meter I told my boss about it. He said, "I have teenagers. Forget it."

Our city decided we were all getting smart meters . We were able to decline which we did . Turns out it is microwave energy developed by the military . One problem having two kids with cancer , didn’t like microwaves going through the wall to help Edison . Also they can know what you use , when you use and if home or not etc. bad enough all the other technology they come up with ,whatever I can control I will . Pat

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

Our city decided we were all getting smart meters . We were able to decline which we did . Turns out it is microwave energy developed by the military . One problem having two kids with cancer , didn’t like microwaves going through the wall to help Edison .

They're connected by a low-power radio using the digital encoding methods originally developed for military communications... just like a cordless phone, a cell phone, and the Bluetooth connections you might have between your phone or computer and accessories such as headsets or your Bluetooth-enabled car. My local utility reads my gas meter this way - it works well.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

They're connected by a low-power radio using the digital encoding methods originally developed for military communications... just like a cordless phone, a cell phone, and the Bluetooth connections you might have between your phone or computer and accessories such as headsets or your Bluetooth-enabled car. My local utility reads my gas meter this way - it works well.

Brian they sell this tech to invade your privacy even more . Try to use as much wired tech as possible . I know it is a losing battle . Pat

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

aroudn here, at least, the time of day differential is far higher in the summer than in the winter.

Yes, I forgot about that-- this was the case in Maryland as well. I wouldn't be surprised if the smart meters are mandatory there now.

I am currently served by a rural electric cooperative. There is no time-of-use service available (yet), but they did install smart meters a few years ago. I guess they are just gathering data with them; I haven't checked to see if user data is available to users. It should be kept private imho.

[cpaharley2008]

It is interesting how we end up paying more so that the utility company no longer has to provide readers (remember "gas man") who would read your gas and electric and water meters, monthly. Cities were full of people walking around daily performing their duties. Even mail was delivered twice daily and your street was cleaned by broom and in the evening the lights were all turned up by the gas man. Milk and butter was delivered to your home and left in insulated boxes on your porch. The alley in the rear were full of hucksters selling fruit and vegetables and knife sharpening. Just a lot of hustle and bustle that sometimes saved people who had fallen or were trapped near their homes or there was the smell of gas in the home. Cars were a luxury, as everyone took streetcars downtown to work or shop. All gone, progress supposedly!! I like the old days....

[padlin]

you must be a lot older then I.

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by padlin

you must be a lot older then I.

Either that or my memory is better.....

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

All gone, progress supposedly!! I like the old days....

Shouldn't you be writing this post on a typewriter?

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

Shouldn't you be writing this post on a typewriter?

A am surprized you older fellas aren't using slate. [emoji16]