Tow Vehicle for Escape 19 and Escape 17

[HarleyD]

Originally Posted by Doug2000

This is my understanding from reading on the Tacoma Forum. For transmission temps, be concerned at 220, 230 look to pull over, 240 shut it down, 250 the oil starts to turn to varnish, O Rings, gaskets and seals start to age, at 275 you start to lose clearance in valve bodies as everything heats up and expands. If you get to 275 and stuff is acting wonky, damage may be done.

After crossing the US, we were getting the oil changed at Toyota of Huntington Beach, I talked to a senior mechanic and he confirmed 220 is ok, pull over at 230, 240. If the Chevy dealer can’t give you specifics, find another dealer.

Many tow packages come with a transmission cooler. If your vehicle does not have one then that be an option to explore. If it has one then maybe a larger one or and additional one could be considered. Cool is always better.

HarleyD

[John in Santa Cruz]

Presumably most all newer automatics have torque converter lock-up... if you learn to 'feel' when its locked, you can encourage it to lock and stay locked by how you drive it.

as long as the TC is locked up, there's no significant heating of the trans fluid.

My older F250 4-speed locks in 3rd or 4th/OD, and I find if I downshift to 3rd prior to a long steep grade and can maintain my speed to 55+, then it stays in 3rd lockup. if I leave it in D(OD) and it automatically downshifts under the inevitable heavy throttle climbing, it will never lock up unless you back off the throttle for a second, which causes you to lose speed.

[joeymac]

Down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico??

[Pembyescape]

I tow our 19 with a 5.7 V8 Tundra. I have towed with a 4.0 V6 Ranger and while you can do it I wouldn’t. I also use a Husky WDH and the difference with and without it is noticeable on twisty mountain roads. You can go smaller than a “1/2 ton” but I wouldn’t go back.

[SSPaget]

We tow our 17b with a 3rd gen Tacoma sr5. It does like to sit between third and fourth gear and revs pretty high. However, I do feel comfortable with the v6 revving higher and I find the ECT button actually does make a difference and the automatic really works to hold gears on hills. I don't have to do much managing.

We did consider the 19, but ultimately came to the conclusion the "2ft-itis" was a real issue and there was no need for the added cost and sq footage. I don't know how that would tow, I assume a little slower and a little worse gas milage.

We've gone just over 1200miles with the Escape and we've averaged ~23mpg with most trips being in the Alberta Rockies. A trip out west we were getting close to 27mpg.

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by SSPaget

We tow our 17b with a 3rd gen Tacoma sr5....We've gone just over 1200miles with the Escape and we've averaged ~23mpg with most trips being in the Alberta Rockies. A trip out west we were getting close to 27mpg.

Are you with CNN

[gbaglo]

Towing my 17B with a RAV4 V6 Sport ( rated to tow 3,500 lbs ), I use 15 litres of fuel per 100 kilometres, which is equivalent to 15 miles per U.S. gallon. Freeway driving with no trailer, I use 10 litres / 100 kilometres. City driving, I'm closer to 15 litres than I am to 10.

To sum it up, my RAV4 gets lousy gas mileage and the tank is so small I have to make frequent stops.

[SSPaget]

Originally Posted by Rossue

Are you with CNN

Sorry, I don't follow.

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by SSPaget

Sorry, I don't follow.

Those numbers defy belief; aka ...

[gbaglo]

The numbers do defy belief.

[SSPaget]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

The numbers do defy belief.

lol, they defy belief because they're wrong. Just re checking them, I figured out what I did...
Being in Calgary, I measure economy in L/100km, but since many users here are US based, I thought I would convert and use mpg.
I used google's converter and clicked miles per gallon and missed the "US" Gallon label.
Those numbers were imperial mpg..

A good trip is ~10 L/100km
Average has been ~13 L/100km

Hopefully those are at least believable. The computer on the Tacoma isn't great for recording single trip economy, those numbers are just from memory of what I calculated when I purchased gas when I got back.

[HarleyD]

So... it wasn't CNN, it was SSP instead.
Fake accusation.

[gbaglo]

I use Units Plus for conversions. Covers everything.

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by HarleyD

So... it wasn't CNN, it was SSP instead.
Fake accusation.

No- that's what a lot of news media do- they use faulty references to make their point. CNN is especially egregious and that's is why their ratings are so bad.

[thunderworks]

Originally Posted by Farther

Although I have not towed an Escape with my 2019 Honda Ridgeline RTL AWD, I have towed a 4000# trailer and was very pleased with the results. So, based on that limited sample if the Ridgeline appeals to you, it would make a very comfortable/capable tow vehicle for an E19. The AWD Ridgeline has a 5000# max towing and 600# tongue weight.

I've read through this thread. It's been really helpful. I have a 2018 Ridgeline TV and am considering upgrading my trailer to an Escape 19 and have had concerns about my trucks limitations. My primary travels take me from the midwest, to northern California, crossing the Rockies, Sierra's and the Trinity Mountains.

It appears from my read of this thread, that my Ridgeline is capable of doing this . . . but without much margin for error. I'm not a very experienced trailer driver. Are there any tips or suggestions more experience folks can offer that would help me understand any issues that the Ridgeline/Escape 19 combo might create?

[Bobbie54]

Originally Posted by thunderworks

I've read through this thread. It's been really helpful. I have a 2018 Ridgeline TV and am considering upgrading my trailer to an Escape 19 and have had concerns about my trucks limitations. My primary travels take me from the midwest, to northern California, crossing the Rockies, Sierra's and the Trinity Mountains.

It appears from my read of this thread, that my Ridgeline is capable of doing this . . . but without much margin for error. I'm not a very experienced trailer driver. Are there any tips or suggestions more experience folks can offer that would help me understand any issues that the Ridgeline/Escape 19 combo might create?

Check out this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohnL47A03dA

[Centex]

Originally Posted by thunderworks

... Are there any tips or suggestions more experience folks can offer that would help me understand any issues that the Ridgeline/Escape 19 combo might create?

Like Farther I have a '19 Ridgeline AWD (RTL-E). I've done limited towing of my Casita with it. IMO the Escape 19 would be a comfortable matchup, I'd probably use a WDH for overall comfort and rig-levelling, even though maybe not strictly necessary.

IMO there's nothing about that combo that's unique compared to other rigs for a new trailer user - all the typical advice applies with nothing special because of the Ridgeline.

Wait, there is one thing .... The Ridgeline only comes with a donut spare; I did find a near-new takeoff full-size OE matching Honda wheel / tire with TPMS that I carry in the bed only when towing (it won't fit in the space for the donut spare). I just didn't want the constraints that go with the donut IF I had a flat when towing.

Join Farther and I over on https://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/ for more Ridgeline towing info though I've not seen any Escape Owners there (THIS is The Place for that ).

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Centex

IMO there's nothing about that combo that's unique compared to other rigs for a new trailer user - all the typical advice applies with nothing special because of the Ridgeline.

the major difference is, the Ridgeline is FWD-centric unibody design. Even if its an AWD version, its still primarily a FWD vehicle, like a minivan or a modern car (indeed, the Ridgeline is based on the Odyssey minivan chassis, which in turn was a beefed up Honda Accord). Larger/heavier trailers are best towed with RWD live-axle ladder frame vehicles, there's just plain fewer joints and bushings undergoing the added stress of towing, and the primary traction is under the load weight on the rear axle, not out in front under the steering wheels.

[Centex]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

... indeed, the Ridgeline is based on the Odyssey minivan chassis, which in turn was a beefed up Honda Accord ...

While perhaps true in design concept, Honda has made it clear that even the gen 1 Ridgeline shared less than 7% of its actual components with other Honda models. The gen 2 (2017-2020) shares some with the Honda Pilot SUV, but neither share any chassis components with their minivan lines (much less any sedan) that in any sense compromises their capabilities as SUV's / trucks within their design capacities.

Can a Ridgeline be spec'ed to tow more than 5k# GTWR? No, but I'd offer that's relatively moot in the context of this forum where the largest current Escape bumper-pull trailer has a GTWR of 5k#. No debate, the RL is not suitable for a 5th wheel (though a few brave (foolish?) souls have modified them and done it). Nor would I recommend any Ridgeline for serious off-roading.

Regarding 'unibody' vs 'body-on-frame' as a concept, we note that there's more than a few 'unibody' vehicles with tow ratings well above the Ridgeline's, and at least so far there's no indication that the gen 2 Ridgeline gives-up anything in terms of robust-ness or longevity in that regard, again, within its rated limits.

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

... the primary traction is under the load weight on the rear axle, not out in front under the steering wheels.

I assure you, and study of technical papers and road tests of the system will substantiate, the Intelligent Variable Torque Management (i-VTM4) as implemented on the gen 2 (2017-2020) Ridgeline delivers torque to the wheels most appropriate for all driving conditions within it's rated capacities (including continuously variable Front/Rear bias and dynamic Left/Right bias on the rear for optimal handling when turning).

Indeed, the only condition where engine torque is directed solely to the front wheels is during deceleration; during acceleration, both straight-line and cornering, the torque bias predominantly to the rear wheels; during straight-line steady-state, it's split front to rear with front bias.

IMO it's misleading to suggest that it's "primary traction" is under the front wheels or that it's "primarily a FWD vehicle", that's demonstrably not the case. The wet or dry handling, control, and traction of the gen 2 Ridgeline AWD is simply 'transparently superb', with or without a trailer up to its properly distributed 5k# towing limit.

Please note that I do not suggest the available Front-Wheel-Drive-only Ridgeline for towing anything remotely approaching an Escape RV - that vehicle is limited to a 3500# trailer rating by Honda and lacks other features related to heavier towing capabilities (e.g. fluid-to-air transmission cooler).

Perhaps sounding a bit defensive, hopefully not offensively so, but having made the carefully considered decision to purchase a gen 2 AWD Ridgeline after 40+ years of F150-250-350 ownership when I had substantially heavier towing needs, and now with over a year of daily driving experience in the Ridgeline (including lots of utility towing with substantial (approaching design limits) loads of construction materials), I have become a huge fan of the vehicle for uses within it's design limits. It offers a number of benefits and features which are unique in its competitive mid-size truck arena today** (though there's several soon-to-be-released vehicles that finally take aim at those unique features. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?).

** Fully independent suspension all four corners (incomparable ride comfort)
** Capacious watertight in-bed trunk (swallows two EU2000i generators; yes, it has a drain plug for hosing-out)
** Two-way swing or drop tailgate (great to not 'reach over' for things in the bed)
** Full 49" flat clear between the wheel wells in the bed (4x8 plywood and sheetrock no sweat without a scratch or ding!)
** etc

[John in Santa Cruz]

the other factor that I might have buried in there, a AWD vehicle like the Ridgeline has much more complex rear suspension with many more bushings and pivots and joints. its probably IRS in the rear, with the differential mounted to the rear subframe, and then half-shafts to each rear wheel with dual CV joints on each half shaft, and each rear wheel is likely on a 4 or 5 way multilink suspension that tie the wheel and thrust to the rear sub-frame, which in turn is rubber mounted to the main unibody chassis. so when you're pulling that trailer up the hill, and your rear wheels are doing most of the work, that force is being put onto all those joints, this will accelerate their wear considerably. Now, if you buy new, and only keep a vehicle a few years, then it will be the next owners problem. I tend to keep vehicles for 10+ years and 250K+ miles.

on a traditional RWD 'live axle' configuration, the wheels are solidly attached to a live axle, and the live axle either has leaf springs which just have 2 pivot points each, and possibly a 'panhard' rod to keep side-to-side sway under control (2 more bushings)



versus a ridgeline (differential and half shafts not shown)