|
|
02-01-2017, 07:29 PM
|
#1
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Seattle, Washington
Trailer: 17b - 2017 model
Posts: 334
|
Compressed air winterization at a gas station?
Properly sized air compressors seem to be fairly expensive and bulky. Instead, I was wondering if it would be possible to winterize a trailer at one of those tire inflation stations that you see at many gas stations? I'm guessing these industrial units are probably not oilless, so it would be good to get an oil extraction filter as mentioned in http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f1...ng-8160.html#9
|
|
|
02-01-2017, 07:38 PM
|
#2
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
|
Too many quarters for what 3 minutes. May take you 5 times to do the whole unit. Just get the ez winterization option, uses the on board pump
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
|
|
|
02-01-2017, 07:53 PM
|
#3
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Front Range, Colorado
Trailer: 2017 5.0 TA picked up in July 2017.
Posts: 523
|
I would also try one of the air mattress inflators; not a lot of pressure but a lot of volume. I have a 120v unit which is very powerful and a less powerful Coleman brand which runs off of 4 D cell batteries.
|
|
|
02-01-2017, 08:28 PM
|
#4
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
|
Many of us use no compressed air, only anti-freeze. Escape will now supply a kit for simply pumping the anti-freeze with your water pump up into lines, bypassing hot water tank. None in fresh tank.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
|
|
|
02-01-2017, 08:39 PM
|
#5
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
|
I have a 6 gal. compressor, but I'm back to using a pump and RV anti-freeze because when I open the taps and see pink fluid coming out, I know the job is done.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
|
|
|
02-01-2017, 08:44 PM
|
#6
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Southwick, Massachusetts
Trailer: None, sold my 2014 5.0TA
Posts: 7,124
|
Going to be a bear to do so, you'll have to jury rig a tire valve onto the water hose connection, then hold the tire inflator onto the valve while your partner bleeds all the water out of the system. It'd all depend on how much volume the service station provides. If I didn't want to spring for a good portable air compressor, I'd go the anti freeze route like Jim mentions.
__________________
Happy Motoring
Bob
|
|
|
02-01-2017, 09:07 PM
|
#7
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Seattle, Washington
Trailer: 17b - 2017 model
Posts: 334
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFDavis50
I would also try one of the air mattress inflators; not a lot of pressure but a lot of volume. I have a 120v unit which is very powerful and a less powerful Coleman brand which runs off of 4 D cell batteries.
|
Interesting. Given earlier discussions about big horsepower range air compressors, I hadn't considered small air mattress inflators.
I suppose, from a physics point of view, almost all of the pressure that would be required to push out water from a hose would not be from friction between the water and the hose, but rather from the difference in height between the intake and outtake ends, and the weight of water in between those two points. 1 foot of water exerts 0.43 PSI, and since the distance from the city water connection to the top of the sink faucet is maybe 2-3 feet (as a guess), you'd need a maximum of about 1 PSI. You don't even need that much since the instructions say to use the Escape pump first to pre-clear the lines, so you should only have to push up a residual amount of water and therefore a fractional PSI. Once the lines are clear, you'd prefer a high CFM pump over a high PSI pump to blow out any droplets and the water at any low points in the system.
This V1 mini air inflator might suit the bill. It's tiny, only 0.4 lb in weight, 12 volt, $12, has 0.25 PSI, and 3.7 CFM:
https://www.amazon.com/V1-Motor-Port.../dp/B0122A2XM8
So my next question would be, if you use an air mattress inflator, do you still need to worry about oil contaminating the water lines? Good oil filters seem to be expensive, although they are thankfully small and light.
|
|
|
02-01-2017, 09:21 PM
|
#8
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Seattle, Washington
Trailer: 17b - 2017 model
Posts: 334
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by padlin
Going to be a bear to do so, you'll have to jury rig a tire valve onto the water hose connection, then hold the tire inflator onto the valve while your partner bleeds all the water out of the system. It'd all depend on how much volume the service station provides. If I didn't want to spring for a good portable air compressor, I'd go the anti freeze route like Jim mentions.
|
Sure, it might take a few minutes, which is probably longer than winterizing with antifreeze. If I understand the process correctly though, I think it should work if I leave all the taps open, go to the exterior, attach a city water intake to Schrader valve connection (Campco makes one), then hold the station's tire inflator to it for a few minutes. I'm leaving out the oil filter, but I haven't figured out yet if that's required on these industrial units.
|
|
|
02-01-2017, 09:31 PM
|
#9
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Burlington Twp., New Jersey
Trailer: 2010 Escape 19
Posts: 7,146
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulk
Interesting. Given earlier discussions about big horsepower range air compressors, I hadn't considered small air mattress inflators.
I suppose, from a physics point of view, almost all of the pressure that would be required to push out water from a hose would not be from friction between the water and the hose, but rather from the difference in height between the intake and outtake ends, and the weight of water in between those two points. 1 foot of water exerts 0.43 PSI, and since the distance from the city water connection to the top of the sink faucet is maybe 2-3 feet (as a guess), you'd need a maximum of about 1 PSI. You don't even need that much since the instructions say to use the Escape pump first to pre-clear the lines, so you should only have to push up a residual amount of water and therefore a fractional PSI. Once the lines are clear, you'd prefer a high CFM pump over a high PSI pump to blow out any droplets and the water at any low points in the system.
This V1 mini air inflator might suit the bill. It's tiny, only 0.4 lb in weight, 12 volt, $12, has 0.25 PSI, and 3.7 CFM:
https://www.amazon.com/V1-Motor-Port.../dp/B0122A2XM8
So my next question would be, if you use an air mattress inflator, do you still need to worry about oil contaminating the water lines? Good oil filters seem to be expensive, although they are thankfully small and light.
|
I think in reality you would be better served with more pressure and volume. I don't see this working well or at all. Plus how would you connect it to the city water line? It only has fittings for tubes or mattress. Others have mentioned trying a Viair 12V compressor but not sure how they work in practice as I haven't seen a first hand report. The small compressor designs are oil-less.
|
|
|
02-01-2017, 09:35 PM
|
#10
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Seattle, Washington
Trailer: 17b - 2017 model
Posts: 334
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubicon327
I think in reality you would be better served with more pressure and volume. I don't see this working well or at all. Plus how would you connect it to the city water line? It only has fittings for tubes or mattress. Others have mentioned trying a Viair 12V compressor but not sure how they work in practice as I haven't seen a first hand report. The small compressor designs are oil-less.
|
According to this post http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f1...9103-4.html#37 the Viair model 88P was judged as sufficient to winterize the trailer. That model has a CFM of 1.47 CFM, which is lower than the much smaller and less costly V1 motor, albeit at a much higher PSI.
I wouldn't naturally assume this would work either, but SFDavis50 seems to have experience using smaller pumps if I'm reading his reply correctly, and I'm just trying to figure out why this might be.
The connection issue is still something to figure out..
For $12, I might be willing to try it out though to find out, unless someone has a counter example
|
|
|
02-01-2017, 09:38 PM
|
#11
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
|
I'm not of a mind to experiment with winterizing methods. I know that a 6 gal. compressor has the volume and pressure to handle the job and that RV anti-freeze also works well.
And, I have no plans to watch The Bachelor.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
|
|
|
02-01-2017, 09:55 PM
|
#12
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Benton County, Iowa
Trailer: 2013 Escape 21 Classic Number 6, pulled by 2018 Toyota Highlander
Posts: 8,275
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo
I'm not of a mind to experiment with winterizing methods. I know that a 6 gal. compressor has the volume and pressure to handle the job and that RV anti-freeze also works well.
And, I have no plans to watch The Bachelor.
|
Hi Glenn, we have a compressor too but I don't use it to winterize. I use the
Pink stuff and like you I know we're good to well below zero. The winterizing valve is fast ,
simple, positive and affordable. What's not to like? I flush with 1/2. Cup of bleach in the spring. I drink and cook with bottled water and that's what Jake prefers too. Either way you look at the show the Bachelor you know it could winterize a trailer.
Dave
|
|
|
02-01-2017, 10:13 PM
|
#13
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Westcliffe, Colorado
Trailer: 2010 EggCamper (#083); 2017 Escape 21 (#053); 2016 F-150 5.0L FX4
Posts: 1,765
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulk
... If I understand the process correctly though, I think it should work if I leave all the taps open, ...
|
Paul, Open one tap at a time to clear one line at a time. Otherwise, all your air will go through the line with the least resistance, and water will remain in all the other lines. Also, when clearing the shower lines, I go ahead and take the head off the shower hose and lay the open end of the shower hose on the floor of the shower just to make sure that it all drains and residual water in the line doesn't back-drain into a low region and be trapped there. Don't ask me how I learned the need to do that. Speaking of trapped, be sure to either add RV antifreeze to your sink and shower P-trap or aspirate the water out of them with a suction pump of some sort (like a 20 cc syringe with 10" piece of tubing attached).
|
|
|
02-01-2017, 10:35 PM
|
#14
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Seattle, Washington
Trailer: 17b - 2017 model
Posts: 334
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by float5
Many of us use no compressed air, only anti-freeze. Escape will now supply a kit for simply pumping the anti-freeze with your water pump up into lines, bypassing hot water tank. None in fresh tank.
|
Reading previous threads on this forum, I thought that using RV antifreeze left an unpleasant taste in the pipes for months afterwards, which put me down the path of considering the compressed air method. I've subsequently learned that there are many types of RV antifreeze though, and I'm not sure if propylene glycol based antifreezes leave as much aftertaste. Perhaps this would be a good point for me to re-examine those earlier assumptions.
|
|
|
02-01-2017, 10:36 PM
|
#15
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Seattle, Washington
Trailer: 17b - 2017 model
Posts: 334
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by War Eagle
Paul, Open one tap at a time to clear one line at a time. Otherwise, all your air will go through the line with the least resistance, and water will remain in all the other lines. Also, when clearing the shower lines, I go ahead and take the head off the shower hose and lay the open end of the shower hose on the floor of the shower just to make sure that it all drains and residual water in the line doesn't back-drain into a low region and be trapped there. Don't ask me how I learned the need to do that. Speaking of trapped, be sure to either add RV antifreeze to your sink and shower P-trap or aspirate the water out of them with a suction pump of some sort (like a 20 cc syringe with 10" piece of tubing attached).
|
Good tips. Thanks!
|
|
|
02-01-2017, 10:48 PM
|
#16
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Burlington Twp., New Jersey
Trailer: 2010 Escape 19
Posts: 7,146
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulk
According to this post http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f1...9103-4.html#37 the Viair model 88P was judged as sufficient to winterize the trailer. That model has a CFM of 1.47 CFM, which is lower than the much smaller and less costly V1 motor, albeit at a much higher PSI.
I wouldn't naturally assume this would work either, but SFDavis50 seems to have experience using smaller pumps if I'm reading his reply correctly, and I'm just trying to figure out why this might be.
The connection issue is still something to figure out..
For $12, I might be willing to try it out though to find out, unless someone has a counter example
|
The Viair works because it has adequate pressure and he did one line at a time (indicative of low cfm). Trailer winterizing methods with compressed air generally recommend 30-40 psi. You might not need that much but I am sure you need more than 0.25. The onboard pump won't completely clear the lines for you so there is more than residual to push and there is also other resistance like the faucet or shower head that must be overcome. For $12 go ahead and give it a shot but don't be surprised if it is not up to the task.
By the way, I blow lines out and then add antifreeze. Overkill yes, but also never going to have a problem.
|
|
|
02-01-2017, 10:51 PM
|
#17
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulk
Reading previous threads on this forum, I thought that using RV antifreeze left an unpleasant taste in the pipes for months afterwards,
|
Some people may have extremely sensitive taste buds, but I've no problem with it after a simple flushing of the lines. You don't put it in the fresh water tank, or water heater. Just the lines are filled ( and the drains ) and it takes very little to fill the lines.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
|
|
|
02-01-2017, 10:56 PM
|
#18
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Westcliffe, Colorado
Trailer: 2010 EggCamper (#083); 2017 Escape 21 (#053); 2016 F-150 5.0L FX4
Posts: 1,765
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulk
... I've subsequently learned that there are many types of RV antifreeze though, and I'm not sure if propylene glycol based antifreezes leave as much aftertaste. ...
|
On the other hand, I've read where alcohol-based RV antifreeze can hasten deterioration of rubber gaskets within the plumbing system. I don't think there is a perfect method out there. Just for the heck of it this Fall, I first flushed our system out with an alcohol based antifreeze then blew that out with compressed air. I'm afraid to search for that on the internet for fear I'll discover that's the absolute worst thing you can do.
|
|
|
02-01-2017, 11:00 PM
|
#19
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
|
Well, they use propylene glycol in ice cream, so best worry about your heart valves.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
|
|
|
02-01-2017, 11:01 PM
|
#20
|
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Laredo, Texas
Trailer: 2001 Casita
Posts: 30
|
Don't use the compressed air from a gas station. It has too much pressure! The high pressure can blow a a pipe or seal. When using compressed air, it should be set to 30lbs.
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|