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Old 11-27-2023, 11:37 PM   #1
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heating

so last couple nights, I've been sleeping in my trailer in the driveway because my bedroom is under destruction. its been in the lower 40s at night, and it seems like he heater is running a lot, so last night, I timed it...

With the temp set to 63 (my preferred sleeping temp), it was averaging about 7 minutes 'on' and 13 minutes 'off'. My 2014 E21 has the extra insulation package, all windows and vents are closed tight.

does that seem like more heat than is sane for the conditions? the furnace seems to be working just fine
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Old 11-27-2023, 11:52 PM   #2
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Never really timed it, but that does seem high; however, we have a gen 2 E19.
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Old 11-28-2023, 06:50 AM   #3
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Other factors

Is it windy too? In my part of the country, they also describe temperature in "wind chill". Wind is a huge factor in heat loss.
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Old 11-28-2023, 11:56 AM   #4
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Just a thought John, since you are home perhaps you could plug in to AC power and use a quiet portable little heater during this construction time? We use this one when we have AC power, very quiet on low setting and has a thermostat.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...e?ie=UTF8&th=1

If you are still keeping all the windows and vents shut tight, keep an eye on the condensation, especially around the bed. Even when it's cold, (coldest we've camped is in high 20'sF) we always crack a window and use the max fan on low. We also set our night time temp to 63 and this little heater can keep up even with a window cracked and max fan on.
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Old 11-28-2023, 01:18 PM   #5
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What she said.

I've camped quite a bit in damp conditions, leaving an away-from-the-bed window cracked and the max fan cracked a bit. I have this heater, https://www.amazon.com/Lasko-CD09250...%2C391&sr=1-11, which has the advantage of a "thermostat" of sorts which can cycle on and off through the night. Also has the advantage of being very quiet compared to the furnace. I use it at any camp when I have hookups.

I'd also recommend a piece of reflectix over the inside of the front window which is uninsulated. I just slide it under the valance and clip it to the bottom of the blind support. I remove it in the day to dissipate/avoid condensation as I sleep right under that window.

I hope your bedroom de/reconstruction goes well.
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Old 11-28-2023, 01:22 PM   #6
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I'd also recommend a piece of reflectix over the inside of the front window which is uninsulated. I just slide it under the valance and clip it to the bottom of the blind support. I remove it in the day to dissipate/avoid condensation as I sleep right under that window.
Or simply make it a storm window with a piece of acrylic and eliminate any condensation on the glazing or the frame while still retaining the ability to see out.

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Old 11-28-2023, 01:24 PM   #7
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John: Keep in mind that your on time includes a short pre-purge and longer cool down where the burner is off but fan is running. I've never timed it but this may add a minute or two. Also what thermostat are you using? If you have switched to digital your unit may have a temperature swing adjustment. A small swing setting is going to make the control to your set point more precise and increase the cycles per hour. A larger swing is going to allow the temperature to deviate further from set point and decrease your cycles per hour.

On edit - from previous post I see you have the Honeywell RTH5100B. This is likely trying to control to +/- 1F which is pretty tight. But if I'm doing my math right based on your average times the heater is cycling on only 3 times per hour. Seems reasonable to me.
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Old 11-28-2023, 02:11 PM   #8
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What she said.

I've camped quite a bit in damp conditions, leaving an away-from-the-bed window cracked and the max fan cracked a bit. I have this heater, https://www.amazon.com/Lasko-CD09250...%2C391&sr=1-11, which has the advantage of a "thermostat" of sorts which can cycle on and off through the night. Also has the advantage of being very quiet compared to the furnace. I use it at any camp when I have hookups.

I'd also recommend a piece of reflectix over the inside of the front window which is uninsulated. I just slide it under the valance and clip it to the bottom of the blind support. I remove it in the day to dissipate/avoid condensation as I sleep right under that window.

I hope your bedroom de/reconstruction goes well.
I use the same electric heater, but found it cycled through a wider temperature range than I liked. I added an Aube thermostat relay to a receptacle, set the heater thermostat as high as it will go, then use a standard household thermostat to control the heater. I mounted the thermostat next to the Escape provided Dometic. (A 21C with the cabinet over the drawer stack).

The Aube provides 24V AC so you don't need to stick to a battery operated thermostat; you could even use a Nest or other smart thermostat. The combination keeps the temperature at my bed within 1 degree of the setting.
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Old 11-28-2023, 02:13 PM   #9
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its not so much the frequency as the duty cycle that bothered me. 43F outside to 63F inside is only a 20 degree differential (btw, it wasn't at all windy) yet the heater was running just about 1/3rd of the time.

I'd rather not run an electric heater, our electric bill is high enough as it is.
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Old 11-28-2023, 07:16 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz View Post
its not so much the frequency as the duty cycle that bothered me. 43F outside to 63F inside is only a 20 degree differential (btw, it wasn't at all windy) yet the heater was running just about 1/3rd of the time.

I'd rather not run an electric heater, our electric bill is high enough as it is.
This fall I questioned the power company why level pay went up dramatically. We drilled down to the high use months. For some reason I thought my escape needed warmth & turned on the cube heater while plugged in at home. Wowza those things suck up a lot of power for such a tiny device.
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Old 11-28-2023, 07:24 PM   #11
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This fall I questioned the power company why level pay went up dramatically. We drilled down to the high use months. For some reason I thought my escape needed warmth & turned on the cube heater while plugged in at home. Wowza those things suck up a lot of power for such a tiny device.
yeah, most small electric heaters are 1500 watts, about 12 amps, on high... low might be 750 to 1100 watts.
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Old 11-28-2023, 09:07 PM   #12
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I always got a kick out of my old boss who was a hawk on the thermostat and it’s
Set point in the winter in the offices. The secretaries (3) were always cold in winter. So one by one they each bought their own 1500 watt heater that would run from 7 AM to 4 PM. They were comfortable and he never really figured it out. I usually just put on another layer and was usually in and out several times a day and really never cared about thermostat settings.
If we have hookups, we run an electric heater. If not, propane furnace set at about 70. As Habberdabber stated, in the Midwest, wind is the enemy including a breeze coming your way after passing over a lake or cold water river especially in the early spring and in the fall. We had 4 inches of snow a on Sunday and today it was 3 degrees F in the AM. They quit knifing in anhydrous for now. Frozen soil is hard in those toolbars.
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Old 11-29-2023, 10:51 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz View Post
With the temp set to 63 (my preferred sleeping temp), it was averaging about 7 minutes 'on' and 13 minutes 'off'. My 2014 E21 has the extra insulation package, all windows and vents are closed tight.
Sounds about right. At 30F our 5.0 ran around 50% of the time. At 15F it ran about 75% of the time. However, we kept our Maxxfan cracked 1/4 inch 100% of the time to eliminate any condensation. For efficiency, you want a furnace to run enough at 40F to still be able to heat your camper when the temps get to 0F. If your furnace only ran 10% of the time at 40F it is sized too large. So 33% at 40F sounds about right to me.

Food for thought,

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Old 12-05-2023, 09:20 PM   #14
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The last thing you want is one that is so large that it is short cycling. Gas and oil heaters need to run then sit, then run, so you experience wider temp swings. I have a used oil heater in my shop and attempted to use a digital thermostat on it but even with the anticipator set as wide as possible it was short cycling, so I went back to a round Honeywell mercury thermostat.

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Old 12-07-2023, 03:52 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz View Post
so last couple nights, I've been sleeping in my trailer in the driveway because my bedroom is under destruction. its been in the lower 40s at night, and it seems like he heater is running a lot, so last night, I timed it...

With the temp set to 63 (my preferred sleeping temp), it was averaging about 7 minutes 'on' and 13 minutes 'off'. My 2014 E21 has the extra insulation package, all windows and vents are closed tight.

does that seem like more heat than is sane for the conditions? the furnace seems to be working just fine
In San Saba Texas in February we had a week where temperatures hovered between high 30's to low 40's at night. Our furnace cycled every 15 minutes or so in our 5.0 so that actually sounds exactly right. We also keep both the bath vent and MaxxFan vent cracked open a touch.
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Old 12-07-2023, 04:53 PM   #16
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For a couple years we had a penny-pinching supt of schools who denied teachers access to their thermostat settings.My classroom was exposed on three sides, with one of those sides being a bank of windows from about 4 feet up. I kept two hand warmer bags and an ice pack in the room. Winter I heated the hand warmers in my microwave and put them on top of the thermostat. Warm weather, the ice pack. Worked like a charm. Moral: Don't mess with teachers.
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Old 12-07-2023, 05:31 PM   #17
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We are rarely plugged in but when we are, we run a Vornado and it does an admirable job pf keeping the 5.0 toasty. When boondocking, we set the thermostat to 60-65. When it is in the 40-30 degree range, the heater cycles frequently. I would say pretty close to what you measured, John.
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Old 12-07-2023, 06:12 PM   #18
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We had air stats on our boiler fed heat system in an old school we had as a rec center. To appease the people who thought the building was cold my foreman would use his pen knife to slide the thermometer alcohol tube a little higher on the back of the stat cover. He’d tell complaining staff to let boiler and air handler cycle a couple times and then check the temp. Sure enough, when they looked the stat read a balmy 73 or 74 and they were satisfied. The yo-yo went on all winter for years. The staff knew something was not right but never quite figured it out. The stingy director left, a new female director came in, the foreman retired and I got everything recalibrated, put in step up and step down thermostats and all was well and the heat bill did not increase markedly. Pay the bill, be comfortable, productivity will increase and people will be a lot more pleasant.
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Old 12-07-2023, 11:20 PM   #19
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...
Winter I heated the hand warmers in my microwave and put them on top of the thermostat. Warm weather, the ice pack. Worked like a charm. Moral: Don't mess with teachers.

Hmmm, keeping the t-stat cool in summer and warm in winter. I bet it was happy. But the occupants of the room
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Old 12-13-2023, 01:16 PM   #20
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John: Keep in mind that your on time includes a short pre-purge and longer cool down where the burner is off but fan is running. I've never timed it but this may add a minute or two. Also what thermostat are you using? If you have switched to digital your unit may have a temperature swing adjustment. A small swing setting is going to make the control to your set point more precise and increase the cycles per hour. A larger swing is going to allow the temperature to deviate further from set point and decrease your cycles per hour.

On edit - from previous post I see you have the Honeywell RTH5100B. This is likely trying to control to +/- 1F which is pretty tight. But if I'm doing my math right based on your average times the heater is cycling on only 3 times per hour. Seems reasonable to me.
I think Rubicon is on to something here. The furnace in my trailer runs the fan 30 seconds before lighting the fire, then 90 seconds after stopping the fire. That means two minutes of run time without actual heating every cycle. If you subtract two minutes from your run times, it doesn't look so bad. Also, I second Rubicon, if your thermostat is trying to control too tightly (+/- one degree), it will cycle the furnace frequently. If your thermostat has an adjustable anticipator, try setting it for a wider temperature range.
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