Lithium Batteries used and stored in Northern Climates

[tdhollowell]

Hey there! I have been working with Battle Born Batteries on installing lithium into our new Escape 21NE. I would recommend listening to this podcast about research they've done with lithium batteries in cold climates. Pretty amazing. Also, these batteries have self-heating cores that will initiate if the weather is well below freezing (this is my understanding). Anyhow, check out

this great podcast

!

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by tdhollowell

Also, these batteries have self-heating cores that will initiate if the weather is well below freezing (this is my understanding).

I don't know what a "core" would be in a battery, but you mean the cells.... no, lithium-ion cells do not incorporate heaters. The battery unit (which contains four cells or groups of cells) can have a heater built-in (and BattleBorn is introducing one in this video which is not offered on their website), but that would need to be powered by an outside power source, because if the battery supplied the power then using the heater would quickly run down and damage the battery. As mentioned in the video, the heater is for charging in the cold, not using or storing them. Electric cars sold in cold climates typically have this sort of heater.

An aside about the video...

Wow, that video was tedious. I wish people who make these things would type out a transcript, edit out the half of the content which is just the same words being repeated, leave out the talking heads (showing any useful illustration instead), fix the terminology errors (hint - power is not energy), and replace a quarter-hour of tedium with three minutes of information. In this case, every word uttered by the host is pointless or even just adds confusion, and they talk about test conditions and data without ever showing anything.

Bizarrely, these guys claim that an AGM battery doesn't work at all (can't take a charge, can't deliver any power) at just below freezing. This will come to a surprise to the million or so people who use AGM batteries in sub-freezing conditions every day all winter every year.

This is Battle Born's corresponding web page:
Lead is Dead White Paper: Cold Charging Study
Even it is stuffed with videos instead of just readable information. If you search it, you may eventually find a link to the actual "white paper": Lead is Dead: Cold Charging LFP vs Lead Acid. It does not support the nonsense claim made in the podcast about AGM at just below freezing, but does provide their test data... and yes, lithium batteries do work well in moderately cold weather, although they didn't address cold-climate winter storage.

[sumac.rhus]

Originally Posted by scubarx

This video should answer some of your questions.

Thank you! It IS helpful!

[cityofdestiny]

I just noticed a Costco special on a pair of the Lion Energy UT-1300 batteries (https://www.costco.com/lion-energy-s...100663833.html). Manual and specs are here: https://support.lionenergy.com/files...l_20191209.pdf

I was really planning on sticking with the flooded batteries for awhile but for $1399 for a pair of these, I'm strongly considering taking the plunge.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cityofdestiny

Manual and specs are here: https://support.lionenergy.com/files...l_20191209.pdf

The manual lists two substantially different sets of values under "Storage Temperature":

-4 ~ 113°F 45 ~ 85% RH
14 ~ 95°F 45 ~ 85% RH

I wonder which one is correct?
They might be for 80% charged (the wider temperature range) and for some lower state of charge, but that's only a guess.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by cityofdestiny

I just noticed a Costco special on a pair of the Lion Energy UT-1300 batteries (https://www.costco.com/lion-energy-s...100663833.html). Manual and specs are here: https://support.lionenergy.com/files...l_20191209.pdf

I was really planning on sticking with the flooded batteries for awhile but for $1399 for a pair of these, I'm strongly considering taking the plunge.

The Costco "deal" for a pair of Lion Energy lithium batteries for $1399 was gone for awhile but now I see it is back until 3/28/21 or while supplies last.
https://www.costco.com/lion-energy-s...100663833.html

I'm not advocating for these batteries just pointing out they are available. Personally if I do lithium I'll probably go with BattleBorn for their more robust construction and UL-rating.

[NEWYORKHILLBILLY]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

The Costco "deal" for a pair of Lion Energy lithium batteries for $1399 was gone for awhile but now I see it is back until 3/28/21 or while supplies last.
https://www.costco.com/lion-energy-s...100663833.html

I'm not advocating for these batteries just pointing out they are available. Personally if I lithium I'll probably go with BattleBorn for their more robust construction and UL-rating.

That's a great price on those. I see they have 150A Continuous Draw while the battle born is only 100A. This could make a difference to some one that wanted only one battery and still run a converter on occasion.The BMS in the lion energy appears to be a good one. Some of the solar DIY forum guys tried to buy that direct but the manufacture refused.

Another option is the go power batteries escape is installing . 10 year pro rated warranty as with battle born. I email go power and was told they would cover return shipping on the warranty witch in my book is a big plus. I been doing some research on the gopower batteries to try to determine the manufacture with no luck. I am hoping down the road will does a video and opens one of these up. I love to see the inside construction. It seems gopower products are good guilty.

One thing for sure there seems to be lots of new competition . This will be a win for the end consumer.

[MyronL]

I've been running my fridge on battery power using my 100ah Battleborn in the tongue box and connected solely to my 200 watts of solar for the last couple weeks. Just to see how well it performs under load (4 dots). We have had some very cold nights and only a couple 60 degree days. Fridge temps never got higher than 36 degrees. Battleborn stayed roughly around 13.5 volts. I was thrilled.

Then, one morning very recently when I checked the battery monitor the monitor was dead! No reading, and everything electric in the trailer was shut down. Nada! What the hell Quickly plugged in shore power. Fridge off. Within less than half an hour the Battleborn then showed 13.2 volts and all was good again. Phew!

[MikeS]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

The Costco "deal" for a pair of Lion Energy lithium batteries for $1399 was gone for awhile but now I see it is back until 3/28/21 or while supplies last.
https://www.costco.com/lion-energy-s...100663833.html

I'm not advocating for these batteries just pointing out they are available. Personally if I do lithium I'll probably go with BattleBorn for their more robust construction and UL-rating.

I have these and will share that the pair drops into the Escape battery box that had the dual 6v in with no modification to the box or cover. I’m not ready to give any further opinion on them as I haven’t really put them through anything other than with hookups. I do really like the weight though.